Invocation. Ouch.

[LET JIMMY RAID]

I sure do enjoy having a much shorter evo, but the puny heal is a real bummer. Might make some of my soloing strategies change a bit too.

Wouldn't mind seeing the evo heal ramp up like so: First full evocation gives 10% hp back, a second full evo within 5seconds of the first one restores 20% hp, maybe a third one in a row restoring 25%? I mean, even after two evocations that's still <40% healing in ~5 seconds, which is worse than previous glyphed evocation, but at least it would help.

[Deleted]

You misunderstood me. I wasn't upset about the change, i don't like it, and i feel it shouldn't be so severe, but i wasn't upset by it. I was upset by people like Jevlin talking about things that they obviously have no knowledge of all the while acting like experts on the matter. And even saying like this change is a god given. Things like that really tick me off.

*Inserts insult that would otherwise ban me*

If you can't handle someone not a mage being right about mages, then that's your problem, sir.

[chazus]

My biggest issue is this.

Yes, I shouldn't be getting hit, but guess what. Sometimes it does. Sometimes I'm not paying attention and a pat walks into me during dailies, and what was 3 easily handled mobs, just turned into 7. Sometimes stuff is on cooldown. Ring of frost is sometimes a pain to do, or on CD. I dont have rune or IW (and many mages dont).

The fact of the matter is, it doesn't happen often, but sometimes the only way to survive is literally to 'tank it out'. Dot everything up and heal for a few moments. And 40% over 6 seconds vs 20% over 6 seconds can easily mean life or death.

[ssviolett]

I don't need to know much about Mages to be able to argue how to PVP or utilize a spell properly. It really is common sense.

No cd+ less cast time = more opportunities to cast previously mentioned spell=Better survival. It doesn't require a genius to see how to utilize that in PVP.

Damn pvpers :-\
*sigh*
Seriously. Why should people who never play pvp suffer cuz of pvp disbalance ? When Blizzard will understand it is impossible to balance pve and pvp parts with same spells and mechanics. I really enjoyed Deep Freeze mechanics back in Cata, why did they change it ? Make Invocation 10% on bgs\arenas and 15% everywhere else. Why cant they add so simple solution ?

[Deleted]

Damn pvpers :-\
*sigh*
Seriously. Why should people who never play pvp suffer cuz of pvp disbalance ? When Blizzard will understand it is impossible to balance pve and pvp parts with same spells and mechanics. I really enjoyed Deep Freeze mechanics back in Cata, why did they change it ? Make Invocation 10% on bgs\arenas and 15% everywhere else. Why cant they add so simple solution ?

It's blizzard. They haven't decided whether WoW is a pve or pvp game, yet. They still trying to make PVP competitive which is a lost cause. WoW's PVP is fun and all but they really should just let it go and focus on PVE. If I want competitive and fair PVP i'll go play MW2, LoL or starcraft.

[Xzan]

Dude, did you really just assume we are going to actually use Invocation in PvP?
I've not seen a single mage (bar one sub-1500 duder) spec into it and that was when it actually gave 25% bonus damage instead of 15% and healed for 40% instead of 10%. Only time you even use Evocation glyph is in double dps 2v2 (and lemme tell you how everyone cares about 2s) and then if you really are on defensive and have to get that Evo out, you are going to buy yourself a lot more time than 3 seconds to finish that channel. So I'm (not) very sorry to burst your bubble, but the talent is worthless in PvP. So please, kindly pack your bags and go learn some PvP before educating us on our own class.

[Deleted]

There we go. I just roll'd a mage. It's my class now as well!

I didn't assume shit. I simply said it might be a viable option now. Time will tell how viable it really is. Until then cage that attitude.

[Xzan]

So you're going from telling us how to play to saying that it could maybe kinda perhaps be somewhat useful but you're not sure yourself yet. Spin much?
I see you like to stay on top of things, but since you're apparently new to the ~arte~ of goodposting - you're stopped to stop your posting about stuff that you don't for a fact know anything about the moment you get called out on it.

[Terahertz]

for a class that's not supposed to be a fulltime healer, 10% of your hp every 2.5 seconds is still stupid seeing as you can spam it. You gotta agree that 20% every 2.5 seconds was pretty OP.

[Imnick]

The fact of the matter is, it doesn't happen often, but sometimes the only way to survive is literally to 'tank it out'. Dot everything up and heal for a few moments. And 40% over 6 seconds vs 20% over 6 seconds can easily mean life or death.

Considering that there's no point popping MI or Invis on normal mobs and that Frost Nova affects multiple targets, I have literally never been in a situation like the one you are currently describing.

[Xzan]

for a class that's not supposed to be a fulltime healer, 10% of your hp every 2.5 seconds is still stupid seeing as you can spam it. You gotta agree that 20% every 2.5 seconds was pretty OP.

Why? Can't hybrids do the same dps as I do?

Sarcasm aside, 20% would be overpowered. 10% is not worth losing Incanter's Ward over. Also note I'm not saying they should buff it. All I'm saying is nobody will use it as far as PvP is concerned.

Also, it's 3 seconds cast, not 2.5 Don't take the ~17% haste for granted.

[goulet goulet]

As is with this small a heal, and only ice block every 5 minutes mages are super weak for survivability. Definatly shouldn't have been a mage this expac. Feeling pretty raw after raiding tonight.

[zomgDPS]

for a class that's not supposed to be a fulltime healer, 10% of your hp every 2.5 seconds is still stupid seeing as you can spam it. You gotta agree that 20% every 2.5 seconds was pretty OP.

I feel like the trolls in this thread are having their way with the mages again.

You all do realize that the Evocation/Invocation/RoP/Spellsteal healing (in fact, ALL mage healing) is effected by the 'battle fatigue' debuff that exists in all PvP environments?
The actual healing you get in PvP from Invocation is no where near 10% of your HP. Its more like 5-7k, which is around 1-2%.


So I really do not understand why so much QQ over a 1% HP heal ever 2.5 seconds. That is hardly OP. The entire concept of "running around a pillar and spamming Evocation to live" is absurd.

Trolls have taken over this thread.

[Fichek]

for a class that's not supposed to be a fulltime healer, 10% of your hp every 2.5 seconds is still stupid seeing as you can spam it. You gotta agree that 20% every 2.5 seconds was pretty OP.

The hell
Even if we were spamming it would be 4%hp/sec. Imagine arena door opening and you seeing a mage that evo spams. His sole strategy is evo spammage. I heard that wins games. Now, let's imagine this strategy, no matter how unlikely it may be. A mage that doesn't evo spam. Yeah. Weird. Now that mage may, in best case scenario, do 1 evo per 10-20sec on average. That translates to 0.5%/sec - 1%hp/sec. Which is nothing considering what other pure dps classes can do. Now the thing with evo is this, you need full 2.5sec to get a heal so you get interrupted, no heal, you need to move during channel, no heal. So every time you want to heal you need 2 globals and an uninterrupted channel while every other pure dps class has the same healing benefit passively. So yes, our heal is pretty retarded. And by retarded i mean so fucking good that it's retarded.

[Elegiac]

I feel like the trolls in this thread are having their way with the mages again.

You all do realize that the Evocation/Invocation/RoP/Spellsteal healing (in fact, ALL mage healing) is effected by the 'battle fatigue' debuff that exists in all PvP environments?
The actual healing you get in PvP from Invocation is no where near 10% of your HP. Its more like 5-7k, which is around 1-2%.

So I really do not understand why so much QQ over a 1% HP heal ever 2.5 seconds. That is hardly OP. The entire concept of "running around a pillar and spamming Evocation to live" is absurd.

Trolls have taken over this thread.

Especially when certain hybrid specs have spammable 2.5 sec heals that heal for a -lot- more than 10% of health. In the case of Shadow Priests, this doesn't even result in a lockout of their primary utility school.

[Raynette]

Oh right, I forgot that there is a 90% healing debuff in PvP.

[Wargon]

I try not to cry about things like this but last night the healing from it felt like nothing in ToT

[Polarthief]

for a class that's not supposed to be a fulltime healer, 10% of your hp every 2.5 seconds is still stupid seeing as you can spam it. You gotta agree that 20% every 2.5 seconds was pretty OP.

I guess Warlocks getting a 15% heal on an instant with a 45s cooldown is fine.
I guess their absorbs from Soul Leech is okay.
Ember Tap healing for 20-30% instantly (or 25-35% over 10s if glyphed) is just peachy.
20% Healthstone (or 40% over 10s if glyphed) that can also be made for their group? Yep. Balanced just fine.

Yeah, okay.

I guess no one realizes how stupidly crap 10% is in PvP, not to mention, battle fatigue and mortal strike-alike effects stack up. That's, what, 5% for a 3s cast?

It'd be perfectly balanced if it was 20% or even 15%. It wouldn't be shit in PvE and it wouldn't be nothing in PvP.

[Me222]

I guess Warlocks getting a 15% heal on an instant with a 45s cooldown is fine.
I guess their absorbs from Soul Leech is okay.
Ember Tap healing for 20-30% instantly (or 25-35% over 10s if glyphed) is just peachy.
20% Healthstone (or 40% over 10s if glyphed) that can also be made for their group? Yep. Balanced just fine.

Yeah, okay.

I guess no one realizes how stupidly crap 10% is in PvP, not to mention, battle fatigue and mortal strike-alike effects stack up. That's, what, 5% for a 3s cast?

It'd be perfectly balanced if it was 20% or even 15%. It wouldn't be shit in PvE and it wouldn't be nothing in PvP.

Completely agree. There was no reason for a nerf.

I don't know about you but I'm not going to stand around spamming Invocation in PvE just because it is off its rather minimal previous CD. The glyph is meant to aid healers not replace them. If blizzard was so worried they should have just added an internal CD to the glyph portion of the spell. 40k is pretty pitiful while alone doing dailies and basically unnoticeable in a raid environment especially when you consider we are casting it every 60s rather than every 40s.

I can't speak to its effects on PvP as I have no experience but I am a little tired of things being nerfed/buffed just for pvp sake when they have an effect on PvE.

[Polarthief]

Completely agree. There was no reason for a nerf.

I don't know about you but I'm not going to stand around spamming Invocation in PvE just because it is off its rather minimal previous CD. The glyph is meant to aid healers not replace them. If blizzard was so worried they should have just added an internal CD to the glyph portion of the spell. 40k is pretty pitiful while alone doing dailies and basically unnoticeable in a raid environment especially when you consider we are casting it every 60s rather than every 40s.

I can't speak to its effects on PvP as I have no experience but I am a little tired of things being nerfed/buffed just for pvp sake when they have an effect on PvE.

Basically, I don't get why things that are MUCH BETTER from Warlocks are ignored while Mages get a tiny little heal (tiny in PvP after all healing debuffs) and people start raining fire and brimstone on us.