Also low 490s seems like an exaggeration for the people that should be in here. Your raid should be averaging ~1.4 ilvl 522 pieces a person just from the neck, loot off Jin, and coins. The only way I'm seeing low 490s is if you are wearing a majority of LFR and MSV gear which is skipping half a tier. You said normal needs to be tuned under heroic the tier before which is true, but normal shouldn't be easy enough that you can just easily skip half of the previous tier on normal.
Last edited by Zoldor; 2013-03-07 at 09:35 PM.
This is how raiding used to be, you needed those item drops from the other tiers you didn't complete yet, and you completed them before you went to the next. It's called progression, and not just progression meaning only the current tier. Those other dungeons still exist, and Blizzard even made them easier too. Go do 'em.
Again, if you really thought you should be 1/4 of the way done with the raid right away. Then your GM should have done 3 trash clears out of the gate so that when you kill Jin you would be friendly. This is called maxing. It would have given every raid member near 4 pieces of 522, people that do things like that clear farther into raids. You can't feel entitled if you aren't totally maxing. If you are just a normal regular guild Jin was there to get you into the new raid, get a kill get friendly and let you start working the mechanics of the second fight and get some stabs and go back and get those sha-touched weapons folks are missing still etc.
Last edited by Zoldor; 2013-03-07 at 09:42 PM.
I thought you get friendly with the first boss killed like Blizzard said, now im stuck in 1500 into neutral untill sundays raid :E Again pretty idiotic from Blizz to say you get friendly from first boss which frankly didnt happen.
IDK if I think it felt overtuned, Im in one of those guilds that only have 3/6 MSV heroic kills and Im just 491 ilvl. Seemed to me that once you get a hang of the adds and the interrupts it'll be a kill. But its safe to say most bosses would be a lot easier to kill if we had like full valor-upgraded BiS heroic-gear that most of the top-guilds have.
Though I dont think gear>skill but it sure would be nice to have really good gear to clear content once in a while.
There is absolutely no way that this would make sense to any competitive raider.
Its also veeeery easy to say that when you're already comfortable at the top, but when you're sequestered out of relevance with almost no chance of fighting your way back up in time to be in the top 10 it really kinda sucks. That doesn't mean we're gonna stop fighting, just means a higher turn over rate due to progression and having to try to replace people with less than stellar progression to sell your guild with. Life at the top has its drawbacks, but by and large is much easier
I will say though they probably made it quite a pain to figure out where to tune it with that upgrade system on top of the different ilvls already in place between the first raid and the second/third raids. Guess they had to decide whether to tune it for people with a mix of 489/496 or expect mostly 496, or expect mostly 496 with some upgraded pieces. Probably part of the reason they aren't sure if they'll bring back the upgrade system at all.
If we theorize that the LFR requirement is 480, then the normal requirement is probably 490 - 495. 2nd boss doesn't appear to be 490 content for 10 man. Again, most if not all of the frustration in this thread is from the 10 mans. Which appears to be overtuned either in mob number, mob health or what disease, ability or etc they throw out.
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They are competitive in their guild, and sometimes even on their server, although this is more personal competition that is projected onto other people and Guilds. They are NOT competitive in a world-wide sense.
All the proof that I really need for this is that this thread is about people that can't kill Horridon due to their inability to pull the DPS they need on the adds. It isn't a "I need this much ilvl to progress" thing, if you raided regularly (which a competitive raider would have done) up until this patch, you have the gear you need to down Horridon.
Also, "Life at the Top", I have been there and done that, back when the option was "25 or go to hell", it is not easier by any stretch of the imagination to be at "the top". Sure, maybe the mindless toady DPS may think it is, but your officers and raid leaders know otherwise. Being prepared to hit the patch running requires a full-time jobs worth of research on a weekly basis until your progression is done - if you want to aim for a server or world first and maintain it.
Any "Fight was a joke. 1shot it." comments will be infracted past this point (unless you explain in-depth that you're a <500 geared raid). It's absolutely useless to this thread and everyone in it to know that 16/16H T14 raiders are one-shotting content that they significantly outgear and outskill.
This thread is not directed at those people; they're welcome to be helpful but post constructively.
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