Page 24 of 34 FirstFirst ...
14
22
23
24
25
26
... LastLast
  1. #461
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by poogle View Post
    We only got a few pulls on him last night but we we're having some serious trouble picking up all the adds in 10m. The bear tank in the group made a good point - how the heck is a bear supposed to pick up all those mobs spread so far apart, while dodging zones/swipe & performing interrupts? On my paladin I could get most of them as they spawned but still a couple got by me, but a bear only has their taunt to pick up stuff at range.
    Faerie fire?

  2. #462
    Epic! Raxxed's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,537
    Quote Originally Posted by poogle View Post
    We only got a few pulls on him last night but we we're having some serious trouble picking up all the adds in 10m. The bear tank in the group made a good point - how the heck is a bear supposed to pick up all those mobs spread so far apart, while dodging zones/swipe & performing interrupts? On my paladin I could get most of them as they spawned but still a couple got by me, but a bear only has their taunt to pick up stuff at range.
    Why is the bear dodging the swipes? They hit for a combination of roughly 100k on me, and a bear tank would have 50k more armor.
    Just pick up the adds. Run through everything you have to. Hell, even the frozen orbs on 3rd gate tickle.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.
    Raxxykins

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    Looking at wowprogress, 62% of 25 man guilds that have cleared the first boss have also cleared Horridon, whereas for 10 man it's about 32%. This to me suggests some sort of difficulty imbalance, most likely caused by raid composition and availability of interrupt and dispel mechanics.

    We ran with three heals (priest, shammy, druid) and we had a hard time on the second door, I think due to dispels and possibly interrupts. I think that perhaps 2 healing might be the way to go as our dps was good overall, but perhaps adding another will cut down on raid damage.
    It's also indicative of the fact that 25 man raids are all raiding guilds, whereas plenty of levelling guilds and such that run 10 mans can roll over jinrokh, the easiest intro boss in a long time, and not be able to kill horridon, who actually requires execution (or maybe even have the time to get through the bridge).

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by poogle View Post
    We only got a few pulls on him last night but we we're having some serious trouble picking up all the adds in 10m. The bear tank in the group made a good point - how the heck is a bear supposed to pick up all those mobs spread so far apart, while dodging zones/swipe & performing interrupts? On my paladin I could get most of them as they spawned but still a couple got by me, but a bear only has their taunt to pick up stuff at range.
    Misdirects would help a lot. Also most of the mobs do not hit hard even on a caster, so the dps bringing them to your bear shouldn't be a problem. Certain stuff does hit really hard if you aren't a tank though so you would have to pay attention. Though I do see your point...

  5. #465
    Normal modes are tuned at earlies 490 on the first boss then 502 on horridon and that gear means you're killing it comfertably. I can't see much of an issue of blue geared players killing the first two bosses atleast in 25man...

  6. #466
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Universe
    Posts
    18,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I don't think you can draw that conclusion from that data. I would argue that the average 25m guild is more hard core than the average 10m guild because those putting the extra effort into coordinating a 25m guild tend to take it more seriously. Now if you had more data like how many 16/16 normal guilds killed it on both and how many 6/16hm guilds killed it on both and how many 10+/16 hm guilds killed it on both, maybe you could draw such a conclusion..
    These numbers are from WoL success rates last night. And these are groups serious enough to use WoL.

    Horridon 25m: 12.2%
    Horridon 10m: 3.7%

    Council 25m: 25.8%
    Council 10m: 4.9%

    Tortos about even at 10%.

    Megaera 25m: 26.7%
    Megaera 10m: 5.6%

    Ji-Kun 25m: 9.7%
    Ji-Kun 10m: 14.5% (yes, 10m is higher)

    Durumu about even at 3%.

    Primorius 25m: 13.3%
    Primorius 10m: 9.5%

    Dark Animus about even at 4%.

  7. #467
    Epic! Raxxed's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,537
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    These numbers are from WoL success rates last night. And these are groups serious enough to use WoL.
    <Data>
    I've got a handful of friends in different 10man and 25man guilds, and they all unanimously agreed that Ji'kun was a total joke on 10man and done with basically zero co-ordinaton, whereas 25man requires a lot more.
    The 10man guild wiped on Horridon a few times with their mains, whereas my guild, and my friends guilds alt groups just plowed it on 25man. It's undoubtedly harder on 10man simply due to the lack of dispells (if you raid composition doesnt allow it). It's all about passing the 2nd/3rd gate. Once you've done that, collect loot.
    Our alt groups were consisting of a handful people like my warlock which is only 483 ilvl, and other characters in the mid 480s low 490s and we smashed it on 25man, but then friends guilds on 10man whom were all 500+ still managed to kill it with ease, but took a lot more effort than it did for us. "Pop revival now", dead boss.

    There are always going to be fights that are more difficult on different difficulties, it's nigh impossible to tune everything perfectly on both difficulties. Horridon just happens to be one that is harder on 10man than 25man (substantially) - and it's just a shame its the 2nd boss, and not something like 6th onwards that most of the run of the mill raiders wouldnt get to for a couple of weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.
    Raxxykins

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    These numbers are from WoL success rates last night. And these are groups serious enough to use WoL
    That doesn't mean anything. I know on my server pretty much all the guilds with even half of normal mode down for t14 run WoL. Not trying to get into 10vs25 difficulty, but when I said I would argue that 25m guilds are likely to be more hard core I meant like I think all the 25m guilds on my server are over 16/16 normal. That can't be said for all of the 10m guilds that show up on WoL though. So unless you want to give stats compared to progression last tier for both sizes, you can't draw that conclusion.

  9. #469
    We downed this tonight (10man) and our raid group is probably just below the 500 ilvl mark with some new VP gear thrown in. For reference we managed 4/16 HC in tier 14.

    Setup: 2 tanks, druid and pally. 3 Healers, Druid, holy priest and pally. 5 DPS, Assassination rogue, combat rogue, elemental shaman, affli lock,

    As for our tactics, from the second door onwards it's really important to burn down the first "special" add whether it's a venom priest, frost warlord, or the warbear/beast shaman or you'll probably struggle with healing and as a consequence fall behind on dispels. We burned some personal dps cooldowns to get to that point.

    Depending on your healers it might be important to stack up and use small raid cd's to keep yourselves up while you have two of these adds alive at the same time. That and never having 3 adds up at the same time really seemed to help our healers keep up.

  10. #470
    I spent like an hour going thru the horridon kills on 10m and I saw not a single 16/16n having been able to kill him.

  11. #471
    Epic! Raxxed's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,537
    Quote Originally Posted by Confucius View Post
    I spent like an hour going thru the horridon kills on 10m and I saw not a single 16/16n having been able to kill him.
    Indeed. A quick skim of the oceanic guilds that are 2/12+ and they've all got a handful of t14 hardmodes in their pockets.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.
    Raxxykins

  12. #472
    Deleted
    Can you Mass Dispell the disease? Thanks!

  13. #473
    Epic! Raxxed's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,537
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetinyone View Post
    Can you Mass Dispell the disease? Thanks!
    Mass dispell is only magic.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.
    Raxxykins

  14. #474
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Universe
    Posts
    18,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    That doesn't mean anything. I know on my server pretty much all the guilds with even half of normal mode down for t14 run WoL. Not trying to get into 10vs25 difficulty, but when I said I would argue that 25m guilds are likely to be more hard core I meant like I think all the 25m guilds on my server are over 16/16 normal. That can't be said for all of the 10m guilds that show up on WoL though. So unless you want to give stats compared to progression last tier for both sizes, you can't draw that conclusion.
    It's not just Horridon. It's almost across the board that 10m is struggling more than 25m. It has nothing to do with the seriousness of the groups, even on later bosses 10m success rate barely goes up. The difficulty curve is just fucked up to have people cockblocked on the 2nd boss of normal. And Horridon isn't even that easy for 25m compared to 1st boss (26%) and later bosses (also over 26%), it's just that 10m is struggling more.

    EDIT: The number of adds is the same on 25m and 10m. So on P3, a 10m will have a much larger % of its raid getting disease stacks and fewer potential people to dispel it. Usually 5 Champions and 5 Warriors will spawn before the gate gets crushed. That's 6+ (because Warriors die quickly) disease targets going out. How is it balanced for a 10m to have more than half their raid diseased and they may not have the composition to dispel it, while a 25m only has 20-25% of their raid diseased and much more options for dispelling? The seriousness of the players isn't a factor in this, it's just not balanced.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-03-08 at 01:03 AM.

  15. #475
    Deleted
    We are so stuck on the 3rd door!

    We hero nuke the 1st frost guy down then onto little guys then back on frost guys when they get back.
    we stack up to aoe the lil guys downa nd aoe stuns and move from the orbs

    anythign we doing wrong?

  16. #476
    Epic! Raxxed's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,537
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetinyone View Post
    We are so stuck on the 3rd door!

    We hero nuke the 1st frost guy down then onto little guys then back on frost guys when they get back.
    we stack up to aoe the lil guys downa nd aoe stuns and move from the orbs

    anythign we doing wrong?
    Well.. you didnt say what you're wiping to.
    I cant offer advice unless you tell me why you're dying.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.
    Raxxykins

  17. #477
    Deleted
    Well when the dinomancer arrives I checked...

    The raid took 2m damage from plague and 3m damage from frostorb.

    Was really tough to heal especially after moderate damage from the Gurabashi door!


    Think it is just damage..

  18. #478
    Double post
    Last edited by Deja Thoris; 2013-03-08 at 01:13 AM.

  19. #479
    Epic! Raxxed's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,537
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetinyone View Post
    Well when the dinomancer arrives I checked...

    The raid took 2m damage from plague and 3m damage from frostorb.

    Was really tough to heal especially after moderate damage from the Gurabashi door!


    Think it is just damage..
    Frost orb is simple, don't stand near them.
    Disease is a bit more tricky. If you can't dispell them (10man so you have limited dispells) then utilize things like hand of purity. Utilize stuns on the adds so they cannot melee the players and apply the diseases (The adds that put the disease up are stunnable. The frost orb ones are not.)
    If you have a mistweaver, as soon as you kill the final venomancer, revival and remove the entire raids stacks. Or if you are 9000% sure you will not let an interrupt go through until the mob dies, revival then. Revival is the most obscenely stupid OP cooldown to deal with Gurubashi.

    Those two gates are the only time you should need raid cds until Jalak (even then.. they're not needed if your dps is on par.)
    Just make sure you keep people alive, do whatever you have to. It's seriously game over, collect loot once you pass 3rd gate with everyone alive.
    Last edited by Raxxed; 2013-03-08 at 01:21 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.
    Raxxykins

  20. #480
    Dk army on 3rd gate made it alot easy to our group.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •