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  1. #21
    No, adding dedicated PvP gear with dedicated PvP stats was the best thing they've done to PvP ever. They've gone another step further in Mists and made it so that PvE'ers don't have an absurd advantage over PvP players because they have stronger gear. The only thing that could make this even better is if they balanced ability damage around PvP and shaped the instances to be balanced around those levels.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    So, let me follow your logic,

    You don't want to farm pvp gear, to pvp every once in a while.
    Your solution to that is make pve gear the only stuff in the game, and thereby forcing pvpers to raid if they want to play at all?

    You don't see the issue with that idea?

    Pve gear sucks in everything but raids? If you exclude pvp, what else is it useless in? Fishing?
    Also, the "showing it off" bit is just weird, we have transmog now, you can show it off even while pvping.

    The jail is there for a reason, it used to be as you said, and it wasn't better thene now.
    I like PVP... it's fun. I like it if my hardworked for PVE gear can be used. It feel extra good to know that my gear has more value cause it has more good. I'll be happy to PVP after I PVE.

    ...but like I said by making my PVE gear worthless, I feel less excited because i can't use it beyond PVE. Farming for a separate gear is DUMB. This doesn't feel exciting to me. What excite me is to be able to take my PVE gear that I earn in raid and 10 man instances to be use in PVP environment. If you dont let me do this, my gear feel like it worthless beyond dungeon.

    Your answer is to cater to PVP lover who don't like to do PVE? okay fine. You just lose PVER like me isntead who want complete use of their PVE gear in all environment.

    I really do like taking my PVE gear into PVP... the show off factor. IDK why a dude was insulted when I said it's exciting to see someone with higher PVE gear in BG.

    I saw a dude with Wairve Glaive of Azzinoth... I didn't feel insulted. It was exciting to see a dude with such end game gear. Kind of make me wana get it.

    These PVPER who don't want to do PVE to get PVP gear should like... Call of Duty or something. IDK... or they can be cater too... but at the risk of losing other.

    Don't you think it sucks to make ppl go thru 90 level before they can PVP? all those quest. That sucks 2. You don't gotta do that in like FPS... or other PVP type game like... streetfighter I guess.
    Last edited by LairenyX; 2013-03-06 at 11:36 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    Should the only gear be used for PvP be PvE gear just like in Vanilla?

    Currently....I think the answer for this is yes.


    1) You're more motivated and excited to do dungeon and raid.

    Although this is a somewhat poor reason. There are players who like PvP and hate PvE. The gear should be available trhough BOTH the PvP and PvE process. It should, ideally be the same gear.


    Quote Originally Posted by Primi View Post
    Its not simple but ...whats your solution to burst?

    You separate out PvP and PvE damage values and make gear in PvP largely meaningless. PvP damage would be measured in % of maximum health and increases in PvP damage would not affect PvE and vice versa.


    Quote Originally Posted by TiagoRamos View Post
    I like the idea of having two types of gear...PvP and PvE, whats the problem? why so many drama about pvp...if people dont like pvp, they dont pvp, or they do with PVE (too bad for them). but let people that enjoy pvp and getting 1 item per week

    Dedicated PvP gear is a source of inequality and imbalance and creates a barrier to entry into the PvP scene, deterring PvEers from taking part in PvP.


    The problem is...this is, IMO, a good idea. But it would need to be combined with a more radical overhaul of the PvP game system. And in that case, it would open up PvP to more players, it would remove a source of imbalance and inequality in the PvP system, it would allow Blizzard to create more world PvP systems because PvP would be fairer...you could even allow for some PvP mechanics in raids.


    The downside is that you risk removing the sense of progress you get by improving gear. Sure, your PvE damage would go up, you'd get better and better performance in dungeons...but if Blizzard were to do this properly, your 6% damage from Mortal Strike might do 24000 damage to a L90, 100k to a MoB, and 6 to a low level player.


    You would open PvP up to more players, but dedicated PvPers might not appreciate the loss of PvP progression as their power would need to remain relatively constant. PvP gear would become the equivalent of Challenge mode gear....effectively transmog. Blizzard would need to rejig the Arena system, perhaps adjusting for shorter 1 or 2 week tournies leading up to a Grand Slam at the end of the Season.


    I personally think this type of change would be good for PvP in game. If done correct.


    But - OP - your idea on its own would not work and would be a bad thing. PvP gear was brought in to remove the need to have PvP players do PvE, and to stop PvErs roflstomping BGs, to stop the emphasis on DPS at the expense of survivability in PvE causing VERY short PvP matches. I think the PvP system in game is in need of an overhaul and that this idea COULD form part of that overhaul, but on its own is just a bad idea.


    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-03-06 at 12:47 PM.

  4. #24
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    No, then heroic raiders would obliterate everyone and they might be bad at PvP but it becomes irrelevant due to gear. PvP gear is in the game for a good reason.

  5. #25
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    I like PVP... it's fun. I like it if my hardworked for PVE gear can be used. It feel extra good to know that my gear has more value cause it has more good. I'll be happy to PVP after I PVE.

    ...but like I said by making my PVE gear worthless, I feel less excited because i can't use it beyond PVE. Farming for a separate gear is DUMB. This doesn't feel exciting to me. What excite me is to be able to take my PVE gear that I earn in raid and 10 man instances to be use in PVP environment. If you dont let me do this, my gear feel like it worthless beyond dungeon.

    Your answer is to cater to PVP lover who don't like to do PVE? okay fine. You just lose PVER like me isntead who want complete use of their PVE gear in all environment.

    I really do like taking my PVE gear into PVP... the show off factor. IDK why a dude was insulted when I said it's exciting to see someone with higher PVE gear in BG.

    I saw a dude with Wairve Glaive of Azzinoth... I didn't feel insulted. It was exciting to see a dude with such end game gear. Kind of make me wana get it.

    These PVPER who don't want to do PVE to get PVP gear should like... Call of Duty or something. IDK... or they can be cater too... but at the risk of losing other.

    Don't you think it sucks to make ppl go thru 90 level before they can PVP? all those quest. That sucks 2. You don't gotta do that in like FPS... or other PVP type game like... streetfighter I guess.
    First of, comparing call of duty with mmo pvp is just dumb.

    Secondly, it is not "catering" to pvpers who don't want to raid, it's equal to both sides.
    Pvp gear is best in pvp, pve gear is best in pve, that's fair.
    Catering would be what you want, pve gear is best in everything.

    I understand what you mean however, getting an awesome drop and knowing you can't test it out on some smuck in battlegrounds might be annoying, but it really is for the best of things, it makes the pvp side better overall.

    But honestly, I think you're living in the old mmo mindset where gear ment anything, it doesn't, infact, the only gear items that DO matter are only cosmetic.Gear as a whole is no longer impresive, gearing up is easy as pie, and is just a matter of time.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    I like PVP... it's fun. I like it if my hardworked for PVE gear can be used. It feel extra good to know that my gear has more value cause it has more good. I'll be happy to PVP after I PVE.

    ...but like I said by making my PVE gear worthless, I feel less excited because i can't use it beyond PVE. Farming for a separate gear is DUMB. This doesn't feel exciting to me. What excite me is to be able to take my PVE gear that I earn in raid and 10 man instances to be use in PVP environment. If you dont let me do this, my gear feel like it worthless beyond dungeon.

    Your answer is to cater to PVP lover who don't like to do PVE? okay fine. You just lose PVER like me isntead who want complete use of their PVE gear in all environment.

    I really do like taking my PVE gear into PVP... the show off factor. IDK why a dude was insulted when I said it's exciting to see someone with higher PVE gear in BG.

    I saw a dude with Wairve Glaive of Azzinoth... I didn't feel insulted. It was exciting to see a dude with such end game gear. Kind of make me wana get it.

    These PVPER who don't want to do PVE to get PVP gear should like... Call of Duty or something. IDK... or they can be cater too... but at the risk of losing other.

    Don't you think it sucks to make ppl go thru 90 level before they can PVP? all those quest. That sucks 2. You don't gotta do that in like FPS... or other PVP type game like... streetfighter I guess.
    So to sum this up. You are too lazy to farm pvp gear so you want the game to change to accommodate your lack of will power with no regard for people who take pvp serious.

  7. #27
    OMFG I KNOW A GOOD SOLUTION!!!!

    For PVP player who HATE PVE, have them be able to get PVE gear via PVP. So in order to say get T2... you can do it by getting 2600 rating in areana!

    See! then they can have tier 2 and raider who raid T2 raid can get it too. This way you're equal and PVPER are not forced to PVE.

    I think this is great, dont u think soo 2?

    This way, I am happy with what I want like I said thru out the thread.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevyvia View Post
    No.

    Loads of people have no interest in raiding and dungeons.

    The fact that you are interested in them or just have the time to grind them 6 hours a day doesn't mean you should be the best geared for every single activity in the game. If you want to be well geared for PvP, you should PvP.

    Honestly, you just sound like a raider too lazy to run a few BGs to get PvP gear, and this topic borders on inciting/trolling in my opinion.
    Agree 100%

    Saved me typing up a response

  9. #29
    I think having PVP gear and PVE gear seperate is good, however when I was doing both at a high level as a resto druid, I soon found I was lacking in bag space for all the gear, which would not have been a problem if we still just had 1 set of gear for everything =p

    when you've got your PvE resto set, PvP resto set, PvE Tanking Set, Whatever Resistance Sets were needed for that teir and in the process of building a PvE Boomkin set, add in reagents needed at the time and suddenly when my bags were "empty" I only had 5 bag spaces >_<

  10. #30
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    No, adding dedicated PvP gear with dedicated PvP stats was the best thing they've done to PvP ever. They've gone another step further in Mists and made it so that PvE'ers don't have an absurd advantage over PvP players because they have stronger gear. The only thing that could make this even better is if they balanced ability damage around PvP and shaped the instances to be balanced around those levels.
    Agree, not getting slaughtered by PvE Mages is a step forward.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    Answer to burst? just because blizzard doesn't like it doesn't mean it's not right to do... doesn't mean ppl will like PvE as PvP gear more.

    Just burst him before he can burst you. This seems fine to me... and about heroic PvE gear bursting BIG? well... then remove arena. However, if you cannot then leave it in and only match Heroic gear ppl wit heroic gear ppl etc.
    Just burst him before he bursts you???? I play a rogue and i even think that is ridiculous. People would be dead before i even broke out of stealth. Where is the fun in that?
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    OMFG I KNOW A GOOD SOLUTION!!!!

    For PVP player who HATE PVE, have them be able to get PVE gear via PVP. So in order to say get T2... you can do it by getting 2600 rating in areana!

    See! then they can have tier 2 and raider who raid T2 raid can get it too. This way you're equal and PVPER are not forced to PVE.

    I think this is great, dont u think soo 2?

    This way, I am happy with what I want like I said thru out the thread.
    The best solution is leaving it the way it is.
    You want PvE gear you do PvE to get it
    You want PvP gear you do PvP to get it

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    OMFG I KNOW A GOOD SOLUTION!!!!

    For PVP player who HATE PVE, have them be able to get PVE gear via PVP. So in order to say get T2... you can do it by getting 2600 rating in areana!

    See! then they can have tier 2 and raider who raid T2 raid can get it too. This way you're equal and PVPER are not forced to PVE.

    I think this is great, dont u think soo 2?

    This way, I am happy with what I want like I said thru out the thread.
    Just to let you know, you're essentially describing what <2.2k Arena was last season. People got/got boosted to 2.4k in RBGs, bought T2 weapons and then strolled through Arenas below 2.2k because of thier absurd advantage. The only difference with your suggestion is that we'd have a bunch of dragonslayers with T2 farming those of us who need to get a rank, to even be on the same level.

    So no, having had one abysmal season where this has happened nearly non-stop, I'm not in a hurry to go back to it.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Image View Post
    The best solution is leaving it the way it is.
    You want PvE gear you do PvE to get it
    You want PvP gear you do PvP to get it
    NO, it's not:

    You want PVE gear you do PVE to get it.
    You want PVP gear you do PvP to get it.

    it's:

    I want to use my PvE gear in PvP because this excite me more, to know my PvE gear has more value. Know it's not trapped in a box. Worthless beyond dungeon.

    My solution was GOOD... to give player PvE gear when they PvP. So whatever raider get for killing the last boss in Blackwing Lair... PvPer will get to if they get high arena rating. This is good.

    When I say T2... I meant Tier 2 as in... Judgement set. PvP player should be able to get the Judgement helm, not by killing Onyxia, but by getting 2400 rating or w/e.

    This way both party are happy. i get to use my PvE gear in PvP... and they are not forced to PVE okay? I think this is good.

  15. #35
    Do you even know why Resilience was added to the game in the first place?
    Did you even PvP in Vanilla?
    It was a giant one-shot fest.
    Resillience was added not only to create the PvP/PvE boundary. It was to keep players for completely shitting on eachother.
    If you are reading this, Congratulations you have nothing better to read

  16. #36
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    NO, it's not:

    You want PVE gear you do PVE to get it.
    You want PVP gear you do PvP to get it.

    it's:

    I want to use my PvE gear in PvP because this excite me more, to know my PvE gear has more value. Know it's not trapped in a box. Worthless beyond dungeon.

    My solution was GOOD... to give player PvE gear when they PvP. So whatever raider get for killing the last boss in Blackwing Lair... PvPer will get to if they get high arena rating. This is good.

    When I say T2... I meant Tier 2 as in... Judgement set. PvP player should be able to get the Judgement helm, not by killing Onyxia, but by getting 2400 rating or w/e.

    This way both party are happy. i get to use my PvE gear in PvP... and they are not forced to PVE okay? I think this is good.

    NO NO NO, you're wrong.

    You do not understand the nature of arena at all.

    Arena is competitive by default, raiding is not.

    With raiding, Aslong as you have the gear to beat a pve encounter, you're going to be fine, it doesn't matter if there's other raiding guild who have better gear, you can beat the boss and still move forward, aslong as you're geared enough to beat the encounter.

    In arena however, if there's better gear to be had, it will be found there, arena will be littered with raid gear all over the place, We've seen this before, whene last tier honor weapons simply didn't cut it, because there where far better raid weapons littered around at low rating, it basicly forced you to raid in order to get your arena weapon.

    That's not even including the stupid problem of legendaries.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    NO NO NO, you're wrong.

    You do not understand the nature of arena at all.

    Arena is competitive by default, raiding is not.

    With raiding, Aslong as you have the gear to beat a pve encounter, you're going to be fine, it doesn't matter if there's other raiding guild who have better gear, you can beat the boss and still move forward, aslong as you're geared enough to beat the encounter.

    In arena however, if there's better gear to be had, it will be found there, arena will be littered with raid gear all over the place, We've seen this before, whene last tier honor weapons simply didn't cut it, because there where far better raid weapons littered around at low rating, it basicly forced you to raid in order to get your arena weapon.

    That's not even including the stupid problem of legendaries.
    So let PVP people get lengedary when they reach 6000 rating or something, and make it so that only 5 ppl in a server can be 6000 rating. Add resillence to freaking PVE gear too... just not let it be visible.

    Again:

    I want to use my PvE gear in a PVP environment. I want to show it off in city and battleground. I want to know my PVE gear is worth more and is not trapped in a box (instances).

    The BG ppl can get like Lightforge if the goal in PVP is equivalent in difficulty to that in PvE. If they are only good enough to get Lightforge blue, then that's all they can go. Let the ELITE PVP ppl get like Judgement set or w/e.
    Last edited by LairenyX; 2013-03-06 at 12:14 PM.

  18. #38
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    So let PVP people get lengedary when they reach 6000 rating or something. Add resillence to freaking PVE gear too... just not let it be visible.
    Graaaah, you're, you're..
    It's like talking to a creationist about evolution...

    You do not understand arena, at all, arena revolves and thrives if the playing field is balanced.
    EVERYTHING you suggested completly ruins the playing field.

    You do not give the higher teams legendaries, because the lower teams will never be able to catch up, that problem was already slighty here with t2 weapons, this would make it far worse.

    You do not make great gear come from another source, because thene the pvp versions will simply not be reachable if you do not get the raidgear first, this happened before and will happen again, and it's horrible for everyone involved.

    I'll explain with a factual example, let's say you need 1800 rating for your arena weapon, but allong the way you meet nothing but people with raiding weapons, that are not only better thene the honor weapon, but also far better thene the 1800 weapon.There is a weapon at 2200 wich is pretty much equal to those raiding weapons. Unless ofcourse there was a legendary, thene no pvp weapon even rivaled it.

    So what does this mean, now, while trying to get your 1800 weapon, let's say you're at 1650,you're not just fighting people with 1800 weapons, wich would be harsh enough, you're fighting people with weapons equal to the 2200 weapons, or worse, legendaries.
    You would have to get to 2200 before you're on par, wich will not happen unless you get the raid weapons yourself, or are simply massivly more skilled.

    You're at a massive disadvantage unless you raid in this case.

    This scenario happened, and this isn't some obscure thing, this happened many seasons, things have FINALLY changed, pvp weapons are easy to get and are best in slot for pvp, as they should be.
    Last edited by glowzone; 2013-03-06 at 12:35 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    Graaaah, you're, you're..
    It's like talking to a creationist about evolution...

    You do not understand arena, at all, arena revolves and thrives if the playing field is balanced.
    EVERYTHING you suggested completly ruins the playing field.

    You do not give the higher teams legendaries, because the lower teams will never be able to catch up, that problem was already slighty here with t2 weapons, this would make it far worse.

    You do not make great gear come from another source, because thene the pvp versions will simply not be reachable if you do not get the raidgear first, this happened before and will happen again, and it's horrible for everyone involved.

    I'll explain with a factual example, let's say you need 1800 rating for your arena weapon, but allong the way you meet nothing but people with raiding weapons, that are not only better thene the honor weapon, but also far better thene the 1800 weapon.There is a weapon at 2200 wich is pretty much equal to those raiding weapons. Unless ofcourse there was a legendary, thene no pvp weapon even rivaled it.

    So what does this mean, now, while trying to get your 1800 weapon, let's say you're at 1650,you're not just fighting people with 1800 weapons, wich would be harsh enough, you're fighting people with weapons equal to the 2200 weapons, or worse, legendaries.
    You would have to get to 2200 before you're on par, wich will not happen unless you get the raid weapons yourself, or are simply massivly more skilled.

    You're at a massive disadvantage unless you raid in this case.

    This scenario happened, and this isn't some obscure thing, this happened many seasons, things have FINALLY changed, pvp weapons are easy to get and are best in slot for pvp, as they should be.
    Whatever dude... I'm just trying to help to make it work... because i want to use my PvE gear to PvP. Make Legendary be an exception that's not in PVP or whatever.

    I want me gear to not feel worthless after i finish raiding.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    Whatever dude... I'm just trying to help to make it work... because i want to use my PvE gear to PvP. Make Legendary be an exception that's not in PVP or whatever.

    I want me gear to not feel worthless after i finish raiding.

    Well its not going to work and it will never happen. Farm pvp gear if you want to pvp. Case closed.

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