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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Well its not going to work and it will never happen. Farm pvp gear if you want to pvp. Case closed.
    Again, it's not that simple.

    It's I want to use my PvE gear to PvP. I want to know that I'm not trapped in a box after raiding and my gear are worthless outside the box. If your solution to this is to quit the game... then I stand by what I said.

    They cater to PvPer and they lose the PvEer like me.

    I just want my gear to worth more after effort to get them. I want to show it off etc. I want ppl to like them because they know it is worth more beyond being used for raid.

    If the solution stay quit then, okay, I guess blizz saw there's more PvPer to make more cash from than PvEer.

  2. #42
    I'm calling total BS on the "vanilla was a one-shot fest". I PvP throughout classic on a lock and a warrior and I was never one, two or even 3 shot. These mythical PvP warriors with their 2500dmg Mortal Strikes or w/e. Remember these videos you saw were a few minutes compilation of hours of footage. It just didn't happen in reality.

    Maybe a fresh geared 60 would get one shot - but thats a fresh geared 60 - what do you expect?

    Resilience ruined PvP/the whole game for me, since it meant I would have to invest twice as much time to get to the level of useful gear I previously had in classic. So I PvPed much less and focused on PvE.

    If resilience was meant to reduce burst...why not just reduce burst? Blizz should work out what fresh 70s,80s,90s will have for HP and work out what it will be at the end of an xpac, then tune burst abilities accordingly. To my mind, it is not at all a problem if a fully epiced max level char can 2 shot a noob green geared character. Don't expect to compete if you have shit gear. Simple really.

    If they must keep PvP gear in the game, just make it stamina/crit heavy.

  3. #43
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Yes, PvP gear should be abolished. Or rather, PvP gear with stats.

    Gear progression in PvE is necessary, as it gives a sense of well, progress, enabling groups to down bosses more effectively and quickly. But in PvP, it creates a situation of gear disparity, locking out newer players and alts that didn't have the advantage of starting early in the season when everyone was of equivocable gear levels. The problem that -without- PvP gear, it becomes a matter of PvEing to get the best gear, which Blizzard has stated they do not want to do.

    The solution to this is simply to use the stat-scaling technology seen in Challenge Modes to reduce the stats of all players to a pre-determined level. PvP gear becomes like challenge mode gear - vanity items that require certain ratings or currencies to purchase. The gear disparity disappears, PvErs do not get an advantage, and PvP becomes more skill oriented.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The solution to this is simply to use the stat-scaling technology seen in Challenge Modes to reduce the stats of all players to a pre-determined level. PvP gear becomes like challenge mode gear - vanity items that require certain ratings or currencies to purchase. The gear disparity disappears, PvErs do not get an advantage, and PvP becomes more skill oriented.
    See that I'd be fine with, you can join in whatever gear you want but you'll have no advantage either way as everyone's stats will be normalised. PvE gear dominating in PvP? Please, never again. We've only just managed to get it out.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Yes, PvP gear should be abolished. Or rather, PvP gear with stats.

    Gear progression in PvE is necessary, as it gives a sense of well, progress, enabling groups to down bosses more effectively and quickly. But in PvP, it creates a situation of gear disparity, locking out newer players and alts that didn't have the advantage of starting early in the season when everyone was of equivocable gear levels. The problem that -without- PvP gear, it becomes a matter of PvEing to get the best gear, which Blizzard has stated they do not want to do.

    The solution to this is simply to use the stat-scaling technology seen in Challenge Modes to reduce the stats of all players to a pre-determined level. PvP gear becomes like challenge mode gear - vanity items that require certain ratings or currencies to purchase. The gear disparity disappears, PvErs do not get an advantage, and PvP becomes more skill oriented.
    But I want to get PVP gear by doing PvE...

    I'm not a hardcore raider. I'm not a hardcore PvPer. I'm always in the middle of the road. I'll get close to 1800 but never reach it. I'll get pass mag and gru but never make it into SSC...

    ...and I preffer getting PvE gear to PvP.

    Why does blizzard just want crap that players might not want as much! dangit. I want PvE gear to PvP. This makes things more exciting. They had it right the first time... why didn't they just freaking stick with it and start to randomly want things.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    2) People who cannot get purple from raid bosses can still get high quality gear, just not the best, like Lightforge armor or it's casual upgrade Soulforge... if you're not a raider. This way, you'll be in awe when you see people who actually have the higher gear.

    I think it's cute the OP tried to imply that upgrading t0 to t0.5 was for "casuals" back in Vanilla.
    Last edited by Deathgoose; 2013-03-06 at 02:22 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    Should the only gear be used for PvP be PvE gear just like in Vanilla? ....
    Vanilla had PvP gear, why do you say it did not? It wasn't as good as tier 2 raiding gear but there was a distinctive set of PvP gear with higher stamina.

  8. #48
    Dreadlord MeHMeH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    But I want to get PVP gear by doing PvE...

    I'm not a hardcore raider. I'm not a hardcore PvPer. I'm always in the middle of the road. I'll get close to 1800 but never reach it. I'll get pass mag and gru but never make it into SSC...

    ...and I preffer getting PvE gear to PvP.

    Why does blizzard just want crap that players might not want as much! dangit. I want PvE gear to PvP. This makes things more exciting. They had it right the first time... why didn't they just freaking stick with it and start to randomly want things.
    TBH, i think blizzard should just make it so that spells on players work differend then spells on PVE targets. This way everyone has sortof the same gear for the same effort they put in. But they can still have a taste of the other aspect of the game.
    Atm you can do some PVE in PVP gear, granted you wont be top dmg if there is some other raiders with you but it can be done. LFR is verry ez so you can have a look at it if you want. But you cant go and pvp in pve gear as it is atm. It doesnt really matter how good your pve gear is, you will get twatted in the face hard.
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
    (Epicurus 341 - 270 BC)

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevyvia View Post
    No.

    Loads of people have no interest in raiding and dungeons.

    The fact that you are interested in them or just have the time to grind them 6 hours a day doesn't mean you should be the best geared for every single activity in the game. If you want to be well geared for PvP, you should PvP.

    Honestly, you just sound like a raider too lazy to run a few BGs to get PvP gear, and this topic borders on inciting/trolling in my opinion.



    oh great sensei teach us how to make good games.

    Oh wait, no. That would be a fucking awful way to play this game.
    This^

    I only pvp, and dont care to raid. no raider then deserves to have better gear than me for PvP simply cause hes in a good raiding guild. If u want pvp gear you should have to PVP. I don't complain that my pvp gear isnt good for raiding again dont care for raiding.
    My WoD Beta Ret lvl 100 pvp videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/Spinalc0rd

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  10. #50
    PvE can go to hell.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    But I want to get PVP gear by doing PvE...

    I'm not a hardcore raider. I'm not a hardcore PvPer. I'm always in the middle of the road. I'll get close to 1800 but never reach it. I'll get pass mag and gru but never make it into SSC...

    ...and I preffer getting PvE gear to PvP.

    Why does blizzard just want crap that players might not want as much! dangit. I want PvE gear to PvP. This makes things more exciting. They had it right the first time... why didn't they just freaking stick with it and start to randomly want things.
    Because PvE has a very different focus than PvP - DPS vs Survival - and because it ended up that the best PvP gear was gear that was only obtainable through PvE. It mean to be successful, PvPers had to engage in PvE.

    Personally, I agree with Didactic and some others in that the solution of creating linked but separate games was really a poor one in many ways. That sepaarte pvP gear creates at least as many issues as it solves.

    I don't think the solution lay in creating separate pathways for PvP - I think the better solution would have been to simply allow PvPers to get the same gear via PvP. To remove the need to raid by creating a PvP path to the same gear. Other than that, stat normalisation of some sort, removing gear as a contributor to effectiveness, would result in a far more balanced playing field and have a number of other advantages.

    There are several ways to do so but the essential technology is already in game. There are the challenge mode buffs for one solution, while another relies on tweaking PvP Power/Resilience/Battle fatigue.

    As it is, PvP currently has several major issues. Healing is a factor, and one that is too strong in many ways. As a result, there is too much importance on burst mechanics. This in turn means PvP can be over too quickly for players to react which means an increased reliance on survivability and healing. PvP needs overhauling to get out of this circle. Other issues? Too many strong CCs, too much reliance by casters on instant cast spells.

    Gear and stat normalisation, total separation of PvP and PvE systems, and a strong reduction in healing combined with an increase in personal survivability and reduction in the importance of healers, CC and instant casts would all help with PvP. Of these, the reduction in importance of healers would probably be the most controversial.

    EJL

  12. #52
    I personally wouldn't mind.
    I know lots of people would be pissed off and it wouldn't accomplish much, but at least then kids decked out in welfare epics wouldn't wreck me in my raid set just because they have stats specifically designed to wreck raiders...

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    Again, it's not that simple.

    It's I want to use my PvE gear to PvP. I want to know that I'm not trapped in a box after raiding and my gear are worthless outside the box. If your solution to this is to quit the game... then I stand by what I said.

    They cater to PvPer and they lose the PvEer like me.

    I just want my gear to worth more after effort to get them. I want to show it off etc. I want ppl to like them because they know it is worth more beyond being used for raid.

    If the solution stay quit then, okay, I guess blizz saw there's more PvPer to make more cash from than PvEer.
    Thats what transmog is for.

    Honestly, you sound like you took your pve gear into pvp and got trounced. Pvp gear is here to stay, and if you cant handle that, perhaps you should try a different game.

  14. #54
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    They should remove PvP gear, but of course players must have the opportunity to acquire equally good gear through PvP only. It shouldn't matter where you get your gear from, you can get your ilvl 550 sword from a heroic raid boss or you can get your ilvl 550 sword through arenas. Do not force anyone to play the part of the game he doesn't like!

    Also, resilience should be on all items, whether they are from a PvE or a PvP source and it should reduce player and mob damage. Where's the issue? They can easily, globally scale mob damage up in order to compensate.

    The advantage is, there's no more division between PvE and PvP, you can move between the two as you wish. More freedom = better. This pigeonholing isn't the best design choice there is.
    Last edited by joepesci; 2013-03-07 at 01:19 AM.

  15. #55
    Depending on what class you play pve gear is viable in pvp. Mages, Hunters, and Rogues don't need it when played really well tbh.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  16. #56
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    Well whatever then.

    I guess they can trade off PvER for PvPer.

    More of 1 less of the other. Feeling my PvE gear is confined to a jail (raid) suckass. I quit the game cause of the lack of use for PvE gear after I raid. Can't take em to BG or anything. Can't show them off or anything... cause who cares? cant use em everywhere so their value are pretty much worthless.
    PvPers can play that game too, because all REAL PvP is confined to instanced battlegrounds and arenas. Technically speaking, PvP Power and PvP Resilience don't affect you at all when you're daily questing unless you're on a PvP server, so in that sense PvPers are the more confined ones. Your raid gear is going to help you immensely in questing out in the world. Unless we're talking about Tol'Barad and Wintergrasp, World PvP basically amounts to ganking and ambushing, with the rare server-wide event.

  17. #57
    IMO, entering an RBG, Arena, or Battleground should immediately scale you, AT ANY LEVEL, to 90, and immediately scale you to the maximum level of PVP gear there is. All PVP rewards should be 100% cosmetic. The only reason this isn't the case is, is Blizzard wants you playing longer so you pay longer. "Growing your character" or whatever nonsense has absolutely no place in PVP, and no one should ever have any sort of inheret advantage, and all PVP options should be available from level 1.

  18. #58
    Yes, along with PvP.

    With no PvP, you would need no gear for it.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kantoro View Post
    Yes, along with PvP.

    With no PvP, you would need no gear for it.
    Also remove PvE and you won't need any gear for it.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    It's I want to use my PvE gear to PvP. I want to know that I'm not trapped in a box after raiding and my gear are worthless outside the box. If your solution to this is to quit the game... then I stand by what I said.
    Allowing PvE gear to be fully competitive with PvP gear is a bad idea.

    Top end PvE gear is already decent enough in random BGs while you farm up your PvP set. If it was as good as top end PvP gear, then whats the point in PvP for PvP gear? Sounds pretty stupid right?

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