5.2 Is a big disappointment

[Crashdummy]

What I have described can well be called a heroic... Call it zone event if you want. Call it dungeon event if you want (ZF 100 troll event?). But Blizzard could have made the entire island into an instanced zone where at most 5 ppl can enter at one time then it'll be converted into a heroic easily. Just gives those rares a loot tables and wala, "new heroic" borned.

Did you miss the part that I said I am not talking about dailies? I am talking about finding friends to kill rares to get keys to have a shot at 3 chests in the solo scenario. That has nothing to do with dailies. What you are asking for is a much smaller instanced zone that goes from point A to B with 3/4 named mobs on the way that you pop open for gear and VP. What we have now is a big zone with randomized rare that you pop open for key to enter a solo scenario to have a shot at 3 chests under time limit.

You have made it clear that you don't want different format. You consider going from A to B and steamroll named mobs on the way that is guaranteed to drop gears with VP at the end a wonderful dinner. Blizzard did something new here. You did not like it but just don't say content is cheap because Blizzard changed format from 3/4 mobs guranteed to drop gear to finding gear inside chests where gear isn't guaranteed. Also, just a reminder, I am not talking about dailies at all if that is still not clear at this point.

No, it cant be called an Heroic, because what youd escribed doesnt have the characteristics of heroics.

And no, i didnt miss wehere you were saying you werent talking about daileis, and yes, Blizzard could have done plenty of things, but they did what they launched for 5.2, not some imagine zone event.

What i am asking is for Dungeons. What they did was create a new questing zone. Completely different things that you insist in comparing. Apples =/= oranges.

Blizzard did nothing new here. Hell, even they sold this as a new Isle of Queldanas patch. Its THAT new (meaning nothing new of course).

[DeadmanWalking]

They are going to stick with dailies for the whole expansion, when the next one comes out they will most likely go with another system. Why? Because when the bus is in motion you don't tinker under the hood. The engine may be making a small extremely annoying whining sound the entire time but the bus is still in motion. Once you drop everyone off at their destination you can get it an overhaul in the shop to fix the problem.

Finding the problem isn't exactly easy either, as players tend to bitch about any change that is made but you can't stay in business without change. Its a caveman reaction to change, that when you are finally comfortable any change in your environment is bad. If a caveman got use to fishing from a stream and then one day that stream dried up he could very easily die looking for a new source of food and water, so its hard wired into people to not accept change in their environment easily.

That and western players tend to run away clutching their temples while screaming any time they see that something requires effort and time. I will say effort because anytime someone says "work" some one posts something idiotic like, "I work 8 hours a day, I don't want to work while playing a video game" when they know damn well they would jump at the opportunity to get paid to do dailies as opposed to what they actually do for money.

[MasterHamster]

No, it cant be called an Heroic, because what youd escribed doesnt have the characteristics of heroics.

And no, i didnt miss wehere you were saying you werent talking about daileis, and yes, Blizzard could have done plenty of things, but they did what they launched for 5.2, not some imagine zone event.

What i am asking is for Dungeons. What they did was create a new questing zone. Completely different things that you insist in comparing. Apples =/= oranges.

Blizzard did nothing new here. Hell, even they sold this as a new Isle of Queldanas patch. Its THAT new (meaning nothing new of course).

What's wrong with new content that uses old but improved principles?

[trollingisokayhere]

Complain, complain, complain, cry, cry, cry still plays wow.

[Nazmina]

Blizzard could do new dungeons if they made them not obselete old content so easily.
The issue being there is no restraint and new dungeons typically contain gear for ever slot. So it'd be 4 months of Raids/LFR/valor gear, or 1-2 days in a dungeon.

Soultions:
Not have every slot represented in the new dungeon(s) Of course people might not like that, It'd be better than now, but not like it was in cata/wrath
Have limits of the frequency of runs, as long as you can do unlimited runs, there is no limit on the rate you acquire gear like all other forms of end game gear progression (aside from BoE) Of course people might not like this either, but thats largely because they want to get full gear more quickly (though blizzard doesn't believe this works for longterm game health)
Colossally low rng, new dungeons could have better items than lfr/old raids/ valor, but would need to have such low chance of dropping to keep it in line, players have already expressed a dislike for extremely low rng or even moderate rng.
Some other gating system.

It kinda seems like one of the things people like about cata/wrath dungeons is the speed at which you acquire gear, which directly conflicts with older or other forms of content, when you have two options for acquiring gear, and one is much faster, taking the other option feels like a waste of time (such as doing old raids ect)

I think there is a place for new dungeons outside of release ones, but they'd need to be balanced properly to be inline with other methods of gear acquisition.

[trollingisokayhere]

That's because you'll bitch about anything and everything. If it isn't one thing, it's another. Blizzard won't ever satisfy you so they cut their losses and continue making content for the ones who care.

100% right. The amount ofr crying over wow is amazing. Even more so that there has never been more to do in the game and raiding looks to be amazing this tier.

[wow2011]

No, it cant be called an Heroic, because what youd escribed doesnt have the characteristics of heroics.

And no, i didnt miss wehere you were saying you werent talking about daileis, and yes, Blizzard could have done plenty of things, but they did what they launched for 5.2, not some imagine zone event.

What i am asking is for Dungeons. What they did was create a new questing zone. Completely different things that you insist in comparing. Apples =/= oranges.

Blizzard did nothing new here. Hell, even they sold this as a new Isle of Queldanas patch. Its THAT new (meaning nothing new of course).

What is the characteristics of a heroic besides a group going from A to B and steamroll named mobs with loot tables and get VP at the end in an instanced zone? Care to share what you consider characteristics that I missed? Not to mention 90% of the mechanics can be ignored in a heroic so "boss mechanic" really isn't a characteristics any more since beginning of MoP. There was quite an uproar when Blizzard made boss mechanic a concern for heroic in Cata so that got removed.

And farming rares for keys to chests isn't an imagined event. I am currently having a blast doing that while world pvping. It feels great to snipe rares from alliance players after wiping their team. It feels less great when my team gets wiped but I still have fun. It's also a good feeling to see people out in the world doing activities that they want. Those activities include steamrolling rares for drops (doing that in an open zone instead of an instanced zone that you call a heroic), dailies, world pvp, pet farming, rep grinding and what not.

[Leonard McCoy]

No, it wasn't the point I was after. I just meant that we used to be in the world for all sorts of things and that I agree dailies shouldn't be the lone tool to try and accomplish the same feat. All of the suggestions I outlined are just brief glimpses of what could get people out in the world. Basically giving people options on how they want to earn *insert item/goal here* by giving a wide variety of activities beyond what we've ever seen.

Just used felwood as an example because people could be there to farm timbermaw, get crafting mats, etc. I'm OK with some things, like specific enchanting recipes, being 'gated' as rare...but instead of saying you can only have this if you get exalted, or you can only have this if you get lucky and the .001% drop happens, it should be combinations of those things. Maybe it can drop or you can buy it at some point, this way if you're lucky then great no worries, on to another rep if you wish. If you aren't lucky, at least you aren't screwed forever.

I could type forever, but ideally my point is give us more options to the same net result than imaginable. Choice, choice, choice.

Ideally I'd like every activity in the game to reward you in that fashion. Like some kind of super tabard you wear that lets you get reward out of everything. Scaled appropriately to whatever activity your performing of course. That way people in the world could go be in the world and get their fill and I could dungeon and get my fill.

[Crashdummy]

What's wrong with new content that uses old but improved principles?

Nothing per se, what you quoted must be taken into context of the post i was quoting.

The problem comes when you overuse a system while you ignore the rest.

cataclysm overused dungeons, MoP is making the exact same mistake, except they are overusing dailies.

I am not asking for dailies to go away, i am asking for some diversity, if 5.1 brought dailies, then 5.2 should have bring dungeons, or both (but if they dont have time for both, then the ones that should have been scrapped was dailies, not dungeons).

5.0, 5.1 and 5.2 all brought tons of dailies. Only 5.0 brought dungeons.

I dont have a particular problem with the island per se or with optional dailies (meaning current ones but with alternative ways to get lesser charms, not the mandatory 5.0 and 5.1 dailies) but the core of WoW is dungeons and raids, and we have a pretty low amount of dungeons.

World of Warcraft has turned into World of Dailycraft this expansion, which sucks really for many of us.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 05:08 PM ----------

What is the characteristics of a heroic besides a group going from A to B and steamroll named mobs with loot tables and get VP at the end in an instanced zone? Care to share what you consider characteristics that I missed? Not to mention 90% of the mechanics can be ignored in a heroic so "boss mechanic" really isn't a characteristics any more since beginning of MoP. There was quite an uproar when Blizzard made boss mechanic a concern for heroic in Cata so that got removed.

And farming rares for keys to chests isn't an imagined event. I am currently having a blast doing that while world pvping. It feels great to snipe rares from alliance players after wiping their team. It feels less great when my team gets wiped but I still have fun. It's also a good feeling to see people out in the world doing activities that they want. Those activities include steamrolling rares for drops (doing that in an open zone instead of an instanced zone that you call a heroic), dailies, world pvp, pet farming, rep grinding and what not.

I dont know why you inssist in comparing two completely different things. The sole fact that you are having a blast PVPing already tells you you are not in a heroic.

Farming rares is an imagined event. You are imagining the event of farming the rares, when in essence is nothing more than farming any other mob except for the lhealth of it.

Im glad you enjoy it, many of us dont, which is what you are unable to grasp.

Many of us enjoy doing our 5 man instanced themed content with the focus in the group we are in, with no interference from any other player, with bosses with their own mechanics (i dont care about your talks about the subjective difficulty of them).

Again, you are unable to understand my point, which is pretty sad since its a really simple one.

[Bullarkie]

We've downed 4/12 bosses as 25 man in about 6 hours of raiding.

I've enjoyed every boss so far.

My only complaint is it's still a PITA to get VP capped.

[DeadmanWalking]

We've downed 4/12 bosses as 25 man in about 6 hours of raiding.

I've enjoyed every boss so far.

My only complaint is it's still a PITA to get VP capped.

You are doing something wrong then because I can get valor capped on thursday or friday in an hour a day. Then I can valor cap an alt by sunday or monday. Thats only 3-4 hours of effort.

80-90 valor for your first heroic dungeon of the day (+300 rep with a faction), 50-55 valor (+200 rep with a faction) on first scenario of the day, 25 valor for tiller dailies which take 5-7 mins, the rares in 5.2 island seem to drop 80% of he time an item which gives you 15 valor just for zerging a rare, which you could easily run from one to another and get 3-8 every 30 mins. And that can be done in 1 hour on a DPS qeue. I am not sure if the 1 man scenario treasure run gives valor...

I noticed yesterday that the quest 'Thunderkings champions' where you kill 3 mini-bosses with a group of 5 gives 150 valor.... and that one can be done once a week....

On fridays I do ToES and the last Heart of Fear LFR for 90 valor each. Usually with my guild raids on friday night I am valor capped on Friday, but as of 5.2 I valor capped on thursday! Incredible.

[wow2011]

I dont know why you inssist in comparing two completely different things. The sole fact that you are having a blast PVPing already tells you you are not in a heroic.

Farming rares is an imagined event. You are imagining the event of farming the rares, when in essence is nothing more than farming any other mob except for the lhealth of it.

Im glad you enjoy it, many of us dont, which is what you are unable to grasp.

Many of us enjoy doing our 5 man instanced themed content with the focus in the group we are in, with no interference from any other player, with bosses with their own mechanics (i dont care about your talks about the subjective difficulty of them).

Again, you are unable to understand my point, which is pretty sad since its a really simple one.

I am comparing farming mobs in an instance and farming mobs in an open world because a lot of people say the zone is only for dailies (or as you put it, a dailies zone) and the experience of farming bosses for loot is none existant. I am pointing out the fact that you can still go farm bosses (aka rares) in 5.2 for keys and then take a shot at the solo scenario to open chests. And if you didn't know, the rares have mechanics of their own.

What you have problem with is open world part and would prefer not to play with a lot of others. Instead, you would want an experience of a maximum of 5 ppl. That is a fair point and I have never said otherwise. My point is that it's unfair for you (not only you, but a lot of others as well) to say 5.2 is just a bunch more dailies. That is simply untrue. The zone that Blizzard has created is pretty awesome and is by no means cheap content. What is true is that Blizzard is missing maximum 5 player content in 5.2 so you want more isolated/instanced content than open world content. If you had started with that then I would not have problem at all.

[A Challenger!]

and western players tend to run away clutching their temples while screaming any time they see that something requires effort and time.

Therein lies the problem, don't you think? WoW, and subsequently most current-gen MMO's on the market these days are more concerned with making mindless content to draw in players, as opposed to what made MMO's juicy and filled to the brim with entertainment a la ye olden MMO Ultima Online.

Just a musing I had, seeing your post. You see both sides of the spectrum all the time; you either love or hate dailies, but what ever happened to thriving MMO worlds? Hell, what ever happened to flavor texts in WoW? Remember the patch that removed that?

When did MMO's, WoW included, become so dry and static? If that is your cup of tea, that isn't a negative thing, but it still is something to ponder.

[yjmark]

Therein lies the problem, don't you think? WoW, and subsequently most current-gen MMO's on the market these days are more concerned with making mindless content to draw in players, as opposed to what made MMO's juicy and filled to the brim with entertainment a la ye olden MMO Ultima Online.

Just a musing I had, seeing your post. You see both sides of the spectrum all the time; you either love or hate dailies, but what ever happened to thriving MMO worlds? Hell, what ever happened to flavor texts in WoW? Remember the patch that removed that?

When did MMO's, WoW included, become so dry and static? If that is your cup of tea, that isn't a negative thing, but it still is something to ponder.

imho - MMOs became dry because there has been no MMO innovation since WoW launched and redefined the entire market. WoW can not really redefine the market again without completely changing the game. A new game is really needed to do that. No company has been successful at doing that yet. They are all just WoW clones who are trying to get a piece of the market WoW created.

It would be really nice if a company really tried to do something different with a new MMO.

[draykorinee]

The more im doign these dailies the more i realise i dont want to be doing these dailies. I find nothing interesting about them at all, today it was crunchin 150 cockroaches, just bland quest designs.

[Anjerith]

Why do you deserve more valor for these dailies than the first set that came out? If anything, these are easier due to gear you have now that you didn't back then.

Furthermore, the raid is available.. if your not anti-social and actually have a guild.

[Osmeric]

Furthermore, the raid is available.. if your not anti-social and actually have a guild.

Ah, the ol' blame the player game! The devs love this one, if not their managers.

[A Challenger!]

That change, sad as it may be, is mostly because that's what players demand.
Why bother with three hours of MMORPG that hardly progressed your character when you can finish a couple rounds of LoL in the same time?

I do agree with you there, the genre has evolved (or devolved, depending on how you see it) into what it is today, and I'd postulate that this started around the same time the MMO genre was propelled into the mainstream.

Well, it's not just "if that is your cup of tea".
A lot of people just disagree that it's as dry and static as you say it is.

True enough, what I said does delve more into the realm of theory and opinion than anything else. Dailies, raiding, dungeons, and PvP is what makes up World of Warcraft, and those things aside, there is nothing else within WoW. Exploration is kept to a minimum or non-existent, flavor text, as I said earlier, was removed. Many of the things that make an MMO world feel alive, players aside, is either non-existent or was removed.

I know I preach my opinions to the choir, but it is always interesting to see polarizing opinions.

imho - MMOs became dry because there has been no MMO innovation since WoW launched and redefined the entire market. WoW can not really redefine the market again without completely changing the game. A new game is really needed to do that.
It would be really nice if a company really tried to do something different with a new MMO.

While I'd say redefine is a strong word, I can agree WoW did change a lot when it came to the standard of MMO's. All the more ironic the grind WoW took away by introducing the modern quest, has returned in the form of dailies and the constant hammering of dungeons/raids/PvP for loot.

No company has been successful at doing that yet. They are all just WoW clones who are trying to get a piece of the market WoW created.

Unfortunately yeah, a lot of games are indeed WoW clones. I'd say Guild Wars 2 did a very good job of being one of the few MMOs to not be a unabashed cash cow, and actually stand on it's own within a market ruled by WoW, but still, it is no genre redefiner. I'd say to a point, MMOs shouldn't have to redefine anything to hold interest. An MMO can still be fun by using tried and true methods.

[Leonard McCoy]

imho - MMOs became dry because there has been no MMO innovation since WoW launched and redefined the entire market. WoW can not really redefine the market again without completely changing the game. A new game is really needed to do that. No company has been successful at doing that yet. They are all just WoW clones who are trying to get a piece of the market WoW created.

It would be really nice if a company really tried to do something different with a new MMO.

I don't know if that's entirely true. Like to an extent I agree. I would hope they would innovate a bit more in warcraft as well and that's ultimately why I think mists is boring. It's the lack of reward coupled with the lack of anything new and or exciting in the game. I'm kinda eager to see what's in 5.3. Hopefully something neat. As for the rest of the industry well GW2 innovated I guess and that game is well that game. You'd have to ask their players. Tera had some innovations in terms of combat. It's little bits here and there but in the sense of something truely unique and innovated your right it's pretty dry out there.

[SamR]

While I'd say redefine is a strong word, I can agree WoW did change a lot when it came to the standard of MMO's. All the more ironic the grind WoW took away by introducing the modern quest, has returned in the form of dailies and the constant hammering of dungeons/raids/PvP for loot.

WoW is far less grindy now than it ever was in vanilla.