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  1. #1

    Council of Elders (N)

    edit:
    We tried killing Sul first on our next raid night, got it on our first try.



    Council of Elders seems quite hard on 10N. We're well on our way to getting it (~30% or something last night) but I'm curious about others' experience with the fight.

    Currently we're 2 tanking with the tanks swapping ice lord, and 3 healing. We're having trouble dpsing the bosses in time (before full energy), but when we 2 healed we had deaths instead to the frost debuff, sandstorm etc. We basically have no strategy for positioning and are spreading loosely about the middle of the room.

    When I heal, I feel like the damage is very high, and very spiky, where I would expect 3 healing to trivialize the healing requirement on a normal mode encounter.


    25m discussion welcome, though I expect its totally different :P
    Last edited by dennisdkramer; 2013-03-11 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #2
    For what it's worth, in 25m we just healed through the ice debuff rather than paying attention to it. Ran it out of raid and healed through it rather than following the collapse mechanic or whatever.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Yau View Post
    For what it's worth, in 25m we just healed through the ice debuff rather than paying attention to it. Ran it out of raid and healed through it rather than following the collapse mechanic or whatever.
    I can imagine that its possible but I don't know why you would ever do it like that. Assuming wowhead values are correct, that's 200k damage every second. I don't think that's a reasonable way to deal with the mechanic on 10m either, although if I fix my raid frames so I can see the debuff maybe it wont catch me off guard so badly.

  4. #4
    The Patient Xeonde's Avatar
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    Any other Melee feel just overall frustrated with this fight? I feel like I am constantly running all over the world chasing shit, hoping a boss doesn't chill in a trap or that Kazra'jin doesn't charge away from me when I am on him. As a melee (enhancement) i am just doing shit DPS because of things like that. Our Multidotters are DOUBLING our melee at this point.

    Also, Sul is by far the worst of the four.
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  5. #5
    We just sat our melee on the Sand boss to take him down first so they didn't have to chase around the charging one. Our ranged alone were enough to break any empowerment. The only part of the fight that felt sketchy was the sand adds, everything else could just be ignored basically.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
    We just sat our melee on the Sand boss to take him down first so they didn't have to chase around the charging one. Our ranged alone were enough to break any empowerment. The only part of the fight that felt sketchy was the sand adds, everything else could just be ignored basically.
    Do you have a log link? I'd like to see your groups dps. We failed to break empowerment quite a few times, even with all the dps on it (3 healing). I have a strong feeling that people weren't focusing single target like they're supposed to be

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 09:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonde View Post
    Any other Melee feel just overall frustrated with this fight? I feel like I am constantly running all over the world chasing shit, hoping a boss doesn't chill in a trap or that Kazra'jin doesn't charge away from me when I am on him. As a melee (enhancement) i am just doing shit DPS because of things like that. Our Multidotters are DOUBLING our melee at this point.

    Also, Sul is by far the worst of the four.
    part of the problem with boss positioning is that nobody is interrupting. If they're interrupted, they run to the tank and melee. Also our tanks are running around constantly for absolutely no reason. Check our raid forums for further comments on the topic

  7. #7
    In 10man, we popped hero to burn the sand guy down asap as soon as he became empowered. we ignored the adds he summoned too as he only did 2 sandstorms and the adds didn't hit our warrior tank that hard. Also suggest sticking someone on him full time to interupt, lowers the damage a lot.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Do you have a log link? I'd like to see your groups dps. We failed to break empowerment quite a few times, even with all the dps on it (3 healing). I have a strong feeling that people weren't focusing single target like they're supposed to be

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 09:58 AM ----------



    part of the problem with boss positioning is that nobody is interrupting. If they're interrupted, they run to the tank and melee. Also our tanks are running around constantly for absolutely no reason. Check our raid forums for further comments on the topic
    Here are some tips for you:

    Tank1 - Frost King, Sand
    Tank2 - Priest

    - Tank them separate from each other, giving decent space in between.
    - Interrupt both Priest and Sand when you can. Priority on Sand.
    - Stun adds from priest and burn them down asap.
    - Ensure Sand guy is always lowest health effectively making the priest adds always move towards him.
    - When Frigid Assault reaches 12, the tank not tanking Frost King taunts him over.

    Doing it this way, the tanks NEVER move and the fight doesn't seem hectic at all.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    Here are some tips for you:

    Tank1 - Frost King, Sand
    Tank2 - Priest

    - Tank them separate from each other, giving decent space in between.
    - Interrupt both Priest and Sand when you can. Priority on Sand.
    - Stun adds from priest and burn them down asap.
    - Ensure Sand guy is always lowest health effectively making the priest adds always move towards him.
    - When Frigid Assault reaches 12, the tank not tanking Frost King taunts him over.

    Doing it this way, the tanks NEVER move and the fight doesn't seem hectic at all.
    The only thing we weren't doing, of those, was killing the sand guy first. I put some thought into it this morning and made a little graphic for it I'm not sure WHY we were doing it so hectically last night, but I'm pretty confident we'll sort it out when we go back in


  10. #10
    The Patient Xeonde's Avatar
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    I was actually also going to toss around the idea of having me stick on Sandy to help interrupt him full time and keep him low so I am not running around like crazy. Once I get my UI to work again I should be able to see his cast bars.

    I like the diagram but I am not sure where you were last night when we named "Sparky" to "Sgt. BroFist". Plz fix.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonde View Post
    I was actually also going to toss around the idea of having me stick on Sandy to help interrupt him full time and keep him low so I am not running around like crazy. Once I get my UI to work again I should be able to see his cast bars.

    I like the diagram but I am not sure where you were last night when we named "Sparky" to "Sgt. BroFist". Plz fix.
    If we can get the empowers broken without you, then sure. I still don't really understand how its possible that our dps was too low to break them several times, but that's something we'll analyze when it comes to it. Also, your boss names are stupid and on a serious note were confusing me during the encounter. Use real names or logical references during progression encounters plx

    ps intra-guild smackdown on public forums YOLO

  12. #12
    We didn't even taunt swap the frost guy. Our druid tank only got frozen once and we just cooldowned him through it.

  13. #13
    Strat on 10m that worked for us: BURN SUL BEFORE HE EMPOWERS
    Avg ilvl: 502 (guild progression 14/16H T14)
    Comp: Blood DK/Prot Warr
    H Pal/Disc Priest
    Lock/Mage/Moonkin/Hunter/Rogue/WW Monk

    At first we tried to do the fight "normally" and mostly DPS down whatever boss was Empowered. That worked decently, but problems arose during Sul's (sand guy) empowerment and Malakk's (frost guy). The hard parts of the fight seem to be dealing with Malakk's and Sul's Empowerments. We revised our strat to kill Sul before he can be empowered and killed the fight within 5 pulls. This is an easier strat imo, but you need decent DPS and probably have to 2 heal. I'd post logs but they bugged out on us.


    __________________________________________________________________________________________ ______
    You want to start on Sul with hero and burn him down as much as possible. Malakk will become empowered but we did not switch to him until after we killed the first add. Depending on your DPS you'll get Sul to about 50-66% HP. At this point swap to Malakk, but keep Sul double dotted and cleave when possible. You can let the bosses empower for about 10-15 seconds before the Dark Power AoE pulse gets overwhelming, so just keep that in mind that letting the boss reach 100 energy isn't the end of the world, just be quick to break them out after.

    Your DPS goal is to kill Sul before he is empowered. Since he is the last one to be empowered in the first round, you have 3 empowers to do this. For the adds, not all your DPS have to switch. 3 of our DoT DPS (aff lock/fire mage/moonkin) mostly ignored the adds and just double DoTTed Sul and the empowered boss as much as possible.

    When Sul dies the fight becomes a lot easier since there's no more random damage from Sand Bolts and the quicksand stops spawning. From there we put our cleave damage onto Malakk to try and kill him next. The only thing that's of a danger here is Malakk's Frostbite empowerment and the tank stun (we taunted, but you can also just CD it). After Frost King dies the fight is essentially over, as the other two bosses don't do anything threatening.

  14. #14
    That's incredibly useful and concise information, thank you

  15. #15
    Anyone tried burning Sul in 25-man? It seems pretty dificult to do that and still finish the Empowered trolls in time.
    Last edited by Xingua; 2013-03-07 at 12:45 AM.

  16. #16
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    Hi fellow raiders,

    after we wiped a total of 4 hours on this boss, we decided to take a break till tomorrow and think about our tactic and i thought it would be a a good thing to share some ideas with you.

    So we learned fast, that this boss isn't playable as we thought after some ptr tests. So we tryed over 3 hours to just tank marli, marlokk and sul in one clumb, just doens't care about the adds from marli. we just taunted after the frost stack between the marlokk and marli tank. But after all try's it just get outta control if u play the second kasra'jin phase and right after that the second sul phase. it just killed us over and over again.

    So basically what we decided for tomorrow:
    It isn't a good idea to just let the marli add pass by because u have to fight a whole fifth boss if you just count the health they heal.
    So the idea is basically to pop bloodlust right at the start, go full on sul and just cleave marlokk when he has full dark power but not to fast to use the time as effective as possible and marli just chills on the other side of the room. After the first frost debuff the tanks taunt and everyone stacks up on sul so kasra'jin spinns in the raid and overload there so you can still cleave sul while fighting kasra'jin. when marli empowers you taunt her to sul to just cleave again while fighting her and get her out of the way before the empowerment ends that the way for the fourth and important phase is long enough.

    so the concept behind this idea is, that you bring sul down to like 25-30% when he empowers. Then we will just burn him down, ignoring and offtanking the adds, so we just don't have to handle sul anymore in the fight.

    the problem we see is, that we will get kasra'jin 100% after that and the time could be short to bring him down a second time without any cd's on any of us, or the offtank can't handle the grown adds.
    What do you think about this tactic or how does you dwoned the boss so far?

  17. #17
    On the wow forums discussion about Council of Elders (The link's called "Council of Elders-Massively Overtuned" on page 5 in the Dungeons, Raids, and Scenarios section of the US Forum. I can't post a link since I'm new to mmo-champion : /) a rogue named Sabod talks about using grounding totem to alleviate Kazra'jin's reflect quite well. I'll quote him below:
    "I will say that Kazra'jin's overload is a joke if you put all your dps in one group with a shaman and then make good use of double grounding totem."

    Anybody able to clarify this to me? Does he mean that the damage is just mitigated slightly by grounding totem, or does he mean glyphed grounding totem? Any thoughts?

  18. #18
    It's a rather chaotic fight, which can make it hard especially if your dps is rather low.

    Ignoring the adds is not really smart. Tank the bosses away from the priestess, and the moment she spawns the adds, drop a stun on it. It can be slowed (glyphed coex is very good for this), and prioritize it. There's 2 cold debuffs, and they look quite similar too, one requires you to hug with 2 more and the other requires you to stay the fuck away from everyone, so if your raiders are not making the distinction you may be getting a lot of unnecessary damage.

    Furthermore interrupts on Sul must be flawless. We had one tank, one melee and one shaman do it, with the mage as back up in case the melee would be out of range. When the priestess got empowered, we brought all bosses to her to cleave extra too, and after that brought the bosses back.

    All in all it was a relatively easy fight for us, we took five tries tops before they went down.

    Make sure to dodge the charges, I forgot the name of the dude but he'll basically charge random people, there'll be shit on the floorm (as I recall) that will announce where he goes, standing in it is just unnecessary damage.

    I'm not too sure on our comp, but we had an aff lock, fire mage, ele shaman, frost dk, and either a rogue or warrior for dps. The tanks were a monk and a paladin. We 3man healed with a monk, paladin and priest. Multidotting/cleaving was highly encouraged, as long as any focused dps was on the empowered one.

  19. #19
    Dot classes are the way to go here. Yes it feels overtuned, but aslong as you focus the empowered mob and move from the sand traps/charged/players with ice debuff (except frost bitten) then you'll go allt he way. Once sul is down the fight feels more like it should (from a healing perspective :P) it's too chaotic right from the go imo with all the spike damage/raid damage going out.

    Here are our logs for your information, hope they help: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fl...?s=3535&e=4141

    Raid comp was :

    Prot Pala/Prot War
    Holy Pala/Disc Priest/Resto Druid (who complained, rightly so, that he wasn't doing much here due to the huge spike damage)
    Boomkin/Surv Hunt/Fury War/Shadow Priest/Ele Shaman/

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    Here are our logs for your information, hope they help: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fl...?s=3535&e=4141
    They did, thank you!

    sent you a PM

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