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  1. #1

    LFR gating? Again?

    May be I've missed something, but haven't Blizzard said in those 11 pages (even not 200) "We don't want to LFR" topic, where they were trying to prove (to themselves mostly, cuz topic wasn't so real popular) reality of LFR's influence on hardcore's gameplay, that they'll use LFR gating only as single-time measure and won't use it in future, cuz: 1) In 5.2 they'll tune gear's ilvls, so hardcores will have superior gear and then won't have any reason to do LFR. 2) In 5.0 there were no reason to hurry up, cuz we had to lvl up, then gear up, before we could do LFR, but in 5.2 casuals, who really hate doing dailies, will have nothing or not enough to do for several weeks. Haven't they said this? I thought, they had. And now I'm just curious, how that happened, that they've "forgotten" about this? And how imperceptibly LFR gating turned from temporal single-time change to "this is how it has to be" feature. What do you think? I'm still unsubbed, cuz there's still nothing to do for me ingame.
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.



  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    May be I've missed something, but haven't Blizzard said in those 11 pages (even not 200) "We don't want to LFR" topic, where they were trying to prove (to themselves mostly, cuz topic wasn't so real popular) reality of LFR's influence on hardcore's gameplay, that they'll use LFR gating only as single-time measure and won't use it in future, cuz: 1) In 5.2 they'll tune gear's ilvls, so hardcores will have superior gear and then won't have any reason to do LFR. 2) In 5.0 there were no reason to hurry up, cuz we had to lvl up, then gear up, before we could do LFR, but in 5.2 casuals, who really hate doing dailies, will have nothing or not enough to do for several weeks. Haven't they said this? I thought, they had. And now I'm just curious, how that happened, that they've "forgotten" about this? And how imperceptibly LFR gating turned from temporal single-time change to "this is how it has to be" feature. What do you think? I'm still unsubbed, cuz there's still nothing to do for me ingame.
    Where did they say all those things?

  4. #4
    Pretty sure any references to gating were in regards to normal modes.

    LFR gating will always be employed, and should always be employed.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaese View Post
    Pretty sure any references to gating were in regards to normal modes.
    They've said no limited attempts in normals. I'm pretty sure they've said they don't really mind using gating as a way of breaking up progression instead of having it be one long haul.

  6. #6
    If gating is always employed (and at the same rate), the time between when LFR has access to all bosses of one tier and the next will be exactly the same as if there is no gating. So what's the problem?
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  7. #7
    LFR gating is absolutely necessary. You really want to clear the whole raid in LFR on the first night of the patch and have no new raid to experience for the next ~6 months?

  8. #8
    I also like that 12 LFR bosses is enough to make him sub for an entire month, but 3 now, 3 a week later, and another 3 two weeks after that is a no-no.

    Apparently he'll be less bored for the rest of the month after having facerolled through all 12 bosses in a single night.

  9. #9
    But don't you think, that it's player's choice to do or not to do that? Or otherwise this players are not real hardcores. You know. Easy mode presist in most of games and it was always player's own choice to use it or not. If players are choosing easy mode, if they can do it, then they are not real hardcores. Isn't it? It smells like double standarts to me. And who cares about hardcores? They're minority. And making game specially for them - is something like showing, that they're elite, have some priorty and we're 3rd grade customers.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    That's not true, wowprogress showed only 30% of raiders cleared Normal (Sha) prior to 5.2 release. Even with LFR, 70% still didn't "ROFLSTOMP" Normals.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    Completely bizarre nonsense. Since LFR significantly FEWER people attempt and finish normal modes. Not sure what their internal criteria are - if they are smart enough to have any - but normal mode participation should be dangerously low. Hopefully low enough that the numbers guys at Activision set the videogame guys at Blizzard straight.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Hopefully low enough that the numbers guys at Activision set the videogame guys at Blizzard straight.
    Activision wouldn't care about the number of normal mode raiders, they just care about the amount of people paying.

  13. #13
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    I am an only LFR raider and I agree 100% with this. It is the only way to ensure normal and heroic raiders stay of of it, which in turn prevents us from ever seeing DS LFR again, which allows people like me to actually have enjoyable groups.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Devic View Post
    That's not true, wowprogress showed only 30% of raiders cleared Normal (Sha) prior to 5.2 release. Even with LFR, 70% still didn't "ROFLSTOMP" Normals.
    The only reason, I can see for LFR gating - is to let hardcores "see content" first. They were "seeing content first" for about 7 years and were always laughing at other players, who was seeing content only via videos and screenshot. Now they have an ability to feel how casuals felt themselves before 4.3: felt like game is passing you by, someone else it really playing this game and enjoying it and you may only watch and envy silently. And nobody was crying about this. So why they are bitching like girls, when their turn to be 2nd grade customers(as they're minority) came? They should just deal with it and take it as the men.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Completely bizarre nonsense. Since LFR significantly FEWER people attempt and finish normal modes. Not sure what their internal criteria are - if they are smart enough to have any - but normal mode participation should be dangerously low. Hopefully low enough that the numbers guys at Activision set the videogame guys at Blizzard straight.
    That's the point!
    It's been shown time and time again that people will choose the easiest path to achieve their goals. For many, that goal is "see the end boss". If Blizzard makes it so trivially quick and easy to see the end boss, many people won't even bother with other modes. This is not a single player game...when masses of people use the cheat code version of the raid and then quit, the rest of the population suffers.

    Gating is part of this game, from day one, at every level. Blizzard had to put in LFR to appease the people who couldn't raid normals or heroics, but if they make LFR so trivially accessible it damages the game. It's a delicate balance.

    Normals and heroics are gated by difficulty. Most players attempting those levels will not clear the raids for weeks or months.
    LFR does not have difficulty, so it is gated by time.

    Did we need another thread on this?
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    That's the point!
    It's been shown time and time again that people will choose the easiest path to achieve their goals. For many, that goal is "see the end boss". If Blizzard makes it so trivially quick and easy to see the end boss, many people won't even bother with other modes. This is not a single player game...when masses of people use the cheat code version of the raid and then quit, the rest of the population suffers.

    Gating is part of this game, from day one, at every level. Blizzard had to put in LFR to appease the people who couldn't raid normals or heroics, but if they make LFR so trivially accessible it damages the game. It's a delicate balance.

    Normals and heroics are gated by difficulty. Most players attempting those levels will not clear the raids for weeks or months.
    LFR does not have difficulty, so it is gated by time.

    Did we need another thread on this?
    I'm unsubbed, cuz I have nothing to do due to all of this gating(not only LFR gating - ilvl gating, no-catch-up gating and etc.). Isn't it real damage to the game? Why hardcores are always thinking, that game will die without them and became even better instead, if casuals will left? The real truth is that statistics saying opposite: nothing will really happen, if 1% of real hardcore elitists will leave, but if game will continue leaking casual players at 4 subs/minute ratio, than it will turn into F2P very fast.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2013-03-06 at 05:18 PM.
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
    Sorry for my bad english. My signature.(Warning! 9.6Mb gif animation)
    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
    "No flying - no sub" Club "No tiers in LFR - no sub" Club

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    The people who need LFR gear to beat Normals won't ROFLSTOMP the entire raid. The people who will ROFLSTOMP the raid will not need LFR gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    That's the point!
    It's been shown time and time again that people will choose the easiest path to achieve their goals. For many, that goal is "see the end boss". If Blizzard makes it so trivially quick and easy to see the end boss, many people won't even bother with other modes. This is not a single player game...when masses of people use the cheat code version of the raid and then quit, the rest of the population suffers.

    Gating is part of this game, from day one, at every level. Blizzard had to put in LFR to appease the people who couldn't raid normals or heroics, but if they make LFR so trivially accessible it damages the game. It's a delicate balance.

    Normals and heroics are gated by difficulty. Most players attempting those levels will not clear the raids for weeks or months.
    LFR does not have difficulty, so it is gated by time.

    Did we need another thread on this?
    Do you really think that there are people out there who are raiding Normals to see the end boss before LFR and once LFR is open they will completely stop raiding Normal? I would love to meet someone like this and the guild that would accept that play-style and succeed.
    Last edited by Promark; 2013-03-06 at 05:19 PM.
    to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    I'm unsubbed, cuz I have nothing to do due to all of this gating(not only LFR gating - ilvl gating, no-catch-up gating and etc.). Isn't it real damage to the game?
    And what would you be doing differently if LFR wasn't gated? Kill the end boss on the first night and then spend the next 29 days of your sub patting yourself on the back?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by stumpy View Post
    And what would you be doing differently if LFR wasn't gated? Kill the end boss on the first night and then spend the next 29 days of your sub patting yourself on the back?
    The same thing that hardcore players do maybe? Beat the entire thing in 1-2 nights and then prepare for next week is an idea.
    to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    I'm unsubbed, cuz I have nothing to do due to all of this gating(not only LFR gating - ilvl gating, no-catch-up gating and etc.). Isn't it real damage to the game?
    No. Blizzard isn't foolish enough to design the game around fly-by-night customers like you, who sub for a month for the minimum effort to see content, then unsub again.

    It doesn't make any difference to Blizzard whether you sub in March and quit in April.
    Or sub in April and quit in May because of gating on LFR.

    Your type is the revenue they knew they'd lose when they added easy mode. Their goal is to keep the rest.
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

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