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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    The same thing that hardcore players do maybe? Beat the entire thing in 1-2 nights and then prepare for next week is an idea.
    I just don't see how 3 bosses in one night, then 6, 9, and 12 is functionally different from doing all 12 in one go right away. But for the OP this is the difference between subscribing and having "nothing to do."

    Hell, if that's what he wants, he can sub in a month when everything's unlocked and have the same experience.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    No. Blizzard isn't foolish enough to design the game around fly-by-night customers like you, who sub for a month for the minimum effort to see content, then unsub again.

    It doesn't make any difference to Blizzard whether you sub in March and quit in April.
    Or sub in April and quit in May because of gating on LFR.

    Your type is the revenue they knew they'd lose when they added easy mode. Their goal is to keep the rest.
    Who is that rest? Only about 10% of player are raiding(only 1% are hardcores) and other 90% are doing LFR.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Who is that rest? Only about 10% of player are raiding(only 1% are hardcores) and other 90% are doing LFR.
    The people who don't say that there's absolutely nothing to do because a five-minute end-boss fight isn't available yet?

  4. #24
    High Overlord kennyisnotdead's Avatar
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    Blizz made LFR for one purpose to keep people like me playing. After wotlk I lvled to 85 and quit till LFR. Seven years of raiding then heroic raiding. i'm done scheduling my life around wow or a guild.

    The gating doesn't bother me, I'm doing the dailys on a couple 90s then LFR will come out and I'll do that. Once its full out ill prob not be doing dailys anymore. Scheduling and moderation is what keeps this interesting.

    LFR gets old after a few weeks anyways and becomes a task. In the mean time you can camp the rares with the 20 other people waiting at each spot. I'm seeing alot of trash farming runs happening so im assuming people are getting to friendly which opens up more 522 gear. So much you can be doing right now.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by stumpy View Post
    I just don't see how 3 bosses in one night, then 6, 9, and 12 is functionally different from doing all 12 in one go right away. But for the OP this is the difference between subscribing and having "nothing to do."

    Hell, if that's what he wants, he can sub in a month when everything's unlocked and have the same experience.
    Following your logic, 1 month of gating isn't enough - Blizzard should release one boss per 2 weeks instead, just because we'll sub only to see "new" boss and then will leave again. You know. I can easily "see" boss via video without paying any money for this. It's just not worth paying money only to be able to do boring dailies or obsolete old content. May be Blizzard don't really understand, that forcing players to do obsolete(I mean no catch-ups in 5.2) content and gating players from new one is really bad idea: I've unsubbed cuz I was bored by old content - will I have a reason to resub, if I will be unable to jump into new content immediately after patch released? M? Is it worth to resub, if I'll have to waste about 1/5 of new tier being unable to do things, I like to do or being gated by things, I hate to do?
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2013-03-06 at 05:51 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    It is necessary in order to raid... just like it is necessary to do garbage dailies constantly. Remember the good old days when you would go into raids to get gear? Gone, all we have now is grinding.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    So what you're saying is that LFR gating is "necessary" to stop unsuccessful normal mode raiders from thinking they have to depend a slot machine for 502 loot instead of running 5.0 raids for 496 loot that they can put where it's needed?

    I highly doubt that most raiders of average skill are going to ROFLSTOMP ToT even if they were decked in full 502 LFR gear, which we all know would takes a couple of months to obtain with extreme good luck.

    LFR gating isn't "necessary" and if it's okay to tell people for months and months and months not to overdo doing dailies to open up factions, then it's perfectly fine for Blizzard to simply tell normal mode raiders not to do LFR. After all, the standard line is if you won't die from not doing it, it's not mandatory.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    Do you really think that there are people out there who are raiding Normals to see the end boss before LFR and once LFR is open they will completely stop raiding Normal? I would love to meet someone like this and the guild that would accept that play-style and succeed.
    You're not getting it.
    Normal raid groups are made up of many varieties of skill and dedication, mainly because they were the only way to see raid content for the first seven years of this game. On one side, some people in a raid guild are dedicated raiders who want to experience content that is challenging and work with a team. On the other side you have players who just want to see it in the easiest way possible. The latter group has stopped doing normals since LFR came out, and normal raid participation has dropped, not surprisingly. It's the people in the middle who are at play. Making easy mode more and more attractive just encourages more people to stop doing normals. Once enough of that happens, even the dedicated raiders can't get enough to field teams, and they quit, too.

    This is just another variant of the 10s vs 25s problem. Easy path is always taken, but it isn't always healthy for the game to just give people the easiest option.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Following your logic, 1 month of gating isn't enough - Blizzard should release one boss per 2 weeks instead, just because we'll sub only to see "new" boss and then will leave again. You know. I can easily "see" boss via video without paying any money for this. It's just not worth paying money only to be able to do boring dailies or obsolete old content. May be Blizzard don't really understand, that forcing players to do obsolete(I mean no catch-ups in 5.2) content and gating players from new one is really bad idea: I've unsubbed cuz I was bored by old content - will I have a reason to resub, if I will be unable to jump into new content immediately after patch released? M? Is it worth to resub, if I'll have to waste about 1/5 of new tier being unable to do things, I like to do or being gated by things, I hate to do?
    SO basically....how dare Blizzard force you to actually play the game instead of letting log in for a few weeks, clear the raid, unsub until the next patch, then let you jump back in with basically no penalty compared to the people who have been subbed and playing the entire time.

    Is it gating in general that you hate? Or the artificial appearance of the gating? What if Blizzard re-introduced attunements and required a fracking long quest chain that would take you a week or more to complete before you could access each new wing of LFR? Oh, and while we are at it, lets require you to have cleared the prior tier at least once on any difficulty before you can progress to the next one. Would that make you happier?

    Gating serves numerous functions, most of which have been explained by either Blizzard or other posters in this thread. You are seriously coming off like a whiny child sitting in the middle of the floor screaming "I want it NOW!!" You even threw in the "I am taking my ball and going home" stance (unsubbing until LFR is out).
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
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  10. #30
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ylera View Post
    LFR gating is absolutely necessary. You really want to clear the whole raid in LFR on the first night of the patch and have no new raid to experience for the next ~6 months?
    Yes! Why do PvE players want protection mechanics which protect them from themselves?

    I so don't like all this artificial blocking in WoW, keeping people away from content to make it last longer. Everyone can choose his own pace. If a guild wants to kill all bosses of a raid instance 20 times a day each, then that's their choice.

    Maybe from PvP perspective it's different, I could live without new content. I still do BGs and Arenas, and some of them are 100 years old already.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    You're not getting it.
    Normal raid groups are made up of many varieties of skill and dedication, mainly because they were the only way to see raid content for the first seven years of this game. On one side, some people in a raid guild are dedicated raiders who want to experience content that is challenging and work with a team. On the other side you have players who just want to see it in the easiest way possible. The latter group has stopped doing normals since LFR came out, and normal raid participation has dropped, not surprisingly. It's the people in the middle who are at play. Making easy mode more and more attractive just encourages more people to stop doing normals. Once enough of that happens, even the dedicated raiders can't get enough to field teams, and they quit, too.

    This is just another variant of the 10s vs 25s problem. Easy path is always taken, but it isn't always healthy for the game to just give people the easiest option.
    Good post.

    Bolded for truth:

    This is just another variant of the 10s vs 25s problem. Easy path is always taken, but it isn't always healthy for the game to just give people the easiest option.

  12. #32
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    But don't you think, that it's player's choice to do or not to do that?
    It's become clear that most players can't think for themselves about things and make rational choices. So no, LFR is gated and frankly should be gated. If it wasn't I'm quite certain that there would be people who would feel forced to run the whole thing in one night.

    I have to add that I'm somewhat impressed by the number of people who have posted about this as if it was some huge surprise. Never mind that every LFR raid so far has been gated. It just returns to my original point about many players and critical thinking skills. Or lack thereof.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-03-07 at 01:35 AM.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    It's become clear that most players can't think for themselves about things and make rational choices. So no, LFR is gated and frankly should be gated. If it wasn't I'm quite certain that there would be people who would feel forced to run the whole thing in one night.
    We can acknowlegde this about lfr but about dailies we must fight and rage the fuck on.

    Theirs a REAL easy solution to this. Just make normal share a lockout with lfr. If you don't like that solution then I don't know what to tell you. Their is no reason I shouldn't be able to get into the raid on patch day just like normal raiders even if it's not the entire raid.

  14. #34
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    We can acknowlegde this about lfr but about dailies we must fight and rage the fuck on.
    Except that this thread is not about dailies and I would kindly request that you not derail it.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    SO basically....how dare Blizzard force you to actually play the game instead of letting log in for a few weeks, clear the raid, unsub until the next patch, then let you jump back in with basically no penalty compared to the people who have been subbed and playing the entire time.

    Is it gating in general that you hate? Or the artificial appearance of the gating? What if Blizzard re-introduced attunements and required a fracking long quest chain that would take you a week or more to complete before you could access each new wing of LFR? Oh, and while we are at it, lets require you to have cleared the prior tier at least once on any difficulty before you can progress to the next one. Would that make you happier?

    Gating serves numerous functions, most of which have been explained by either Blizzard or other posters in this thread. You are seriously coming off like a whiny child sitting in the middle of the floor screaming "I want it NOW!!" You even threw in the "I am taking my ball and going home" stance (unsubbing until LFR is out).
    In reality the I'm taking it home crowd is the crowd defending this gating nonsense. Most of you argue that to some degree or another being able to do something in LFR diminishes your "accomplishment" in these raids which is not only insanity it's also totally childish. It should really have no bearing on your play what I can and can't do but just like a child you scream and shout in the middle of the floor threatening to take your toy home because some other kid has it and all of a sudden it isn't special anymore.

    Their is ZERO reason for gating at this extreme. I understand raiders don't want to feel forced to do content in excess of normal raids but in reality 6 weeks doesn't really solve that and neither does giving lfr raiders a single wing in the first week. After 6 weeks it's likely you'll still need lfr upgrades (and the rep) so you'll stilll be doing lfr anyway.

    Furthermore this whole "you'd finish it in a day and be bored for 6 months" is the most retarded argument I can think of. First of all with the current way they have character progression set up in this game I could be farming this raid for gear for MONTHS. Certainly not I'd be bored in a week. I mean when you beat a normal raid are you all of a sudden bored of the raidw ith nothing esle to do? Or do you farm normals or progress to HM? WHAT HAPPENED? You beat the raid? Second of all even if it were true than all that really says is the content isn't very rich or deep. It's just gated to make you think it lasts long.



    ---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 01:39 AM ----------

    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    Except that this thread is not about dailies and I would kindly request that you not derail it.
    The point remains. We acknowledge the horrid flaw of "compelling" or forced content in one instance but not in the other. It is the height of hypocrisy and not a derailment in the slightest.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-07 at 01:43 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    The same thing that hardcore players do maybe? Beat the entire thing in 1-2 nights and then prepare for next week is an idea.
    hardcore raiders would beat the same raid with 5 other alts to gear them all up :P

  17. #37
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    As if this already doesn't occur? Even without inherent gear advantage always lies in prior patch progression, as those who did the most, and got the most, have the advantage.

    Yes initial with launch LFR this is a larger, more pressing factor, but after that there's really no reason except trying to milk your playerbase for time.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    It is necessary in order to raid... just like it is necessary to do garbage dailies constantly. Remember the good old days when you would go into raids to get gear? Gone, all we have now is grinding.
    By the time HoF LFR came out I didn't even need gear from there. Maybe one or two pieces but I could have filled those in with equvilent ilvl pvp gear. Also, let's not pretend you didn't have to farm mats to no end in order to raid previously. If anything farming coins and valor is much more optional than it ever was.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    By the time HoF LFR came out I didn't even need gear from there. Maybe one or two pieces but I could have filled those in with equvilent ilvl pvp gear. Also, let's not pretend you didn't have to farm mats to no end in order to raid previously. If anything farming coins and valor is much more optional than it ever was.
    Actually over the years they've gotten rid of that as much as possible. No more destruction potions or nightmare seeds. No more resistance gear. They've done nothing but remove those sorts of time requirements outside of the raid right up until mists. Hell they even got rid of farming two raids in one week.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    But don't you think, that it's player's choice to do or not to do that? Or otherwise this players are not real hardcores. You know. Easy mode presist in most of games and it was always player's own choice to use it or not. If players are choosing easy mode, if they can do it, then they are not real hardcores. Isn't it? It smells like double standarts to me. And who cares about hardcores? They're minority. And making game specially for them - is something like showing, that they're elite, have some priorty and we're 3rd grade customers.
    Look at all the content there is for people who play this game 1 hour a day or maybe less. Dailies, achievements, random battlegrounds, dungeons and scenarios. Lack of content? You're looking in the wrong places.

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