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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Really? This mentality is the worst? Not the ones that complain about a game on the fansite they no longer play?
    Also, back in TBC (where I started) I did have to walk a long way to get to other places. But that's besides the point.


    So because YOUR time is limited they must have the LFR revolve around YOUR time? Next thing you'll want is to have all bosses' health cut in half because it takes too long for YOUR time.
    Oh I currently play the game just no longer subbed to it.

    Yes they must. In fact they should cater to every whim and desire I have and send me piles of gold in the mail and free epics to....

    I mean again I'm not the only one in this position clearly. They could make a concession to lfr raiders as a whole and just give one wing. Or they can keep shafting them.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Oh I currently play the game just no longer subbed to it.

    Yes they must. In fact they should cater to every whim and desire I have and send me piles of gold in the mail and free epics to....

    I mean again I'm not the only one in this position clearly. They could make a concession to lfr raiders as a whole and just give one wing. Or they can keep shafting them.
    Ignoring the sarcasm there... Sure, they could be some people in your position but it's certainly not the majority. It's not a problem for the majority at the moment.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Ignoring the sarcasm there... Sure, they could be some people in your position but it's certainly not the majority. It's not a problem for the majority at the moment.
    And you make this claim based on? I also didn't really even say it was a problem. I said it was shitty and it shafted lfr players but they might not be as bothered by it as I am. I'm perfectly willing to accept that. Clearly some are. AS this like the 5th or 6th topic I've addressed on this matter alone.

    Having said that if they made the change next patch and gave us some of the raid at patch day most lfr raiders would be jumping up and down and saying thank you. This is one of those instances where I can't really think of why anyone would be upset about giving a wing of the raid to the lfr guys at launch. Well be upset within reason of course.

    notice i'm not asking for the entire raid at launch. I'm just asking for one boss or one wing or SOMETHING so that I can be as excited about patch day.

  4. #64
    I don't think there was any purpose served by delaying the first 3-4 boss wing of LFR for a week. If raiders think it's "mandatory" then, fine, it's 3 bosses in LFR, no problem.

    The rest of the schedule, I don't really care if it's on 1-week or 2-week intervals.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algearond View Post
    I am an only LFR raider and I agree 100% with this. It is the only way to ensure normal and heroic raiders stay of of it, which in turn prevents us from ever seeing DS LFR again, which allows people like me to actually have enjoyable groups.
    Why would you want real raiders to stay out of it ?
    Those are the ones making sure you actually manage to complete a lfr run lol...
    Hello, blizzard even had to implement a stacking buff cause skill level is so extremely low in lfr.
    Now with even less incentive from raiders to run lfr, its sure gonna be enjoyable for you... have fun lol

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    Pretty much this. Remember when DS came out? Every week I had to farm that shit just in the hopes that the damned Priest who won my token for the last 8 bosses would trade me it.
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by AutomaticBadger View Post
    Pretty much this. Remember when DS came out? Every week I had to farm that shit just in the hopes that the damned Priest who won my token for the last 8 bosses would trade me it.
    Any normal mode raider who wants to farm a 3 boss instance with coins for gear 20 ilevels below the current tier drops: Go ahead.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Why would you want real raiders to stay out of it ?
    Those are the ones making sure you actually manage to complete a lfr run lol...
    Hello, blizzard even had to implement a stacking buff cause skill level is so extremely low in lfr.
    Now with even less incentive from raiders to run lfr, its sure gonna be enjoyable for you... have fun lol
    I think he was implying that the douchebags in LFR tend to be raiders. (Which, from my experience, does tend to be true. They're usually the AFKers, too!)

  9. #69
    Waah waah, I want my effortless content now

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    But don't you think, that it's player's choice to do or not to do that? .
    Not really, Blizzard decides.... and the choice you have is to accept it or not. And I think it's a smart decision really. If they want to take normal raiders seriously and not make LFR mandatory for them, this is an excellent decision.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by AutomaticBadger View Post
    Pretty much this. Remember when DS came out? Every week I had to farm that shit just in the hopes that the damned Priest who won my token for the last 8 bosses would trade me it.
    There's a huge gap in LFD and normal mode ilevel now, way more than in Dragon Soul.

    If you could make use of ToT LFD pieces in normal mode raiding you have a very strange gearing situation.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Devic View Post
    That's not true, wowprogress showed only 30% of raiders cleared Normal (Sha) prior to 5.2 release. Even with LFR, 70% still didn't "ROFLSTOMP" Normals.
    Maybe because so many who does LFR doesn't even raid Normals
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    I would be more likely to sub if I got a raid this week, even only part of a raid and I was getting some reward out of it. Even if in the totally super lucky scenario that I had got 90% of what I wanted gear wise out of the raid I would pay for another month to get that last 10%, to finish the raid reps, and to do some of it on my alts. This naked attempt to starve me out for another month had the exact opposite affect. You get more flies with honey than vinegar. I'm tired of getting the stick and only being teased with the carrot.
    Thanks for saying all the things, I wanted to say by myself. Summing up, I'll say that:
    1) Gating is double-edged blade: it may make people play more, but it also may prevent players from playing. And it's very dangerous feature: forcing players to play more may cause just opposite result - they may stop playing at all.
    2) "LFR is mandatory" statement smells like double standarts. Dailies may be treated as easy (boring - yes, but easy) way to get reawards(and don't tell me, that epics and extra rolls are not meanfull rewards) too. And players, who hate dailies(like hardcores hate LFR), are saying, that they don't want to do dailies, but they feel like this content is mandatory for them. And guess what is the answer for them? Dailies are optional, it's your choice to do or not to do them, it's your choice, if you want to get rewards, locked behind them, there are alternative ways to get same rewards - LFR and normal raiding for example. And what is the answer to us? LFR is mandatory, LFR gear is mandatoy, players will always choose the easiest way, blah blah blah... See the diffirence? I don't see.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2013-03-07 at 03:25 PM.
    Sorry for my bad english.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    You're not getting it.
    Normal raid groups are made up of many varieties of skill and dedication, mainly because they were the only way to see raid content for the first seven years of this game. On one side, some people in a raid guild are dedicated raiders who want to experience content that is challenging and work with a team. On the other side you have players who just want to see it in the easiest way possible. The latter group has stopped doing normals since LFR came out, and normal raid participation has dropped, not surprisingly. It's the people in the middle who are at play. Making easy mode more and more attractive just encourages more people to stop doing normals. Once enough of that happens, even the dedicated raiders can't get enough to field teams, and they quit, too.

    This is just another variant of the 10s vs 25s problem. Easy path is always taken, but it isn't always healthy for the game to just give people the easiest option.
    No, I understood just fine and the question I was asking still is relevant. If people will choose the easy path, what difference is a few weeks going to make? Show me a player who is currently raiding normals just to see the end boss that would stop if LFR was open on day one and the guild that would take such a player. If such a player exists they would likely stop showing once they reached the end or once LFR opened, meaning they are almost worthless to a raiding guild.

    Could it pull some players away from normal modes? Maybe, but those players weren't a contribution to begin with. I'm sure there are some extreme examples out there, a few really skilled players where ilvl doesn't matter as much, but I doubt it's more than a handful.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    No, I understood just fine and the question I was asking still is relevant. If people will choose the easy path, what difference is a few weeks going to make? Show me a player who is currently raiding normals just to see the end boss that would stop if LFR was open on day one and the guild that would take such a player. If such a player exists they would likely stop showing once they reached the end or once LFR opened, meaning they are almost worthless to a raiding guild.

    Could it pull some players away from normal modes? Maybe, but those players weren't a contribution to begin with. I'm sure there are some extreme examples out there, a few really skilled players where ilvl doesn't matter as much, but I doubt it's more than a handful.
    My guild has many such players. Our raiding population has dwindled over the years as more and more of them have become satisfied doing LFR and hanging out in guild.

    Maybe if your attitude is one where you consider such players "worthless" or that they "weren't a contribution to begin with", then this doesn't affect you. You can simply toss them out and grab another recruit. But not all of us are in guilds where we discard players who don't perform or get burnt out on harder raiding, because they are our friends who we've known for years, many times in real life. Also, adding new people to augment the raiding population is increasingly hard on lower pop servers.

    You can wave your hand and say that these players don't exist, but myself and many others in this forum are suffering from this right now.
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

  16. #76
    So you are saying that during the first few weeks you have members who want to raid normals and you let them, then once LFR opens in a few weeks they will completely leave you high and dry? I don't see how opening LFR completely from the start would change the situation.

    Also, how the hell are you able to progress in that manner?
    Last edited by Promark; 2013-03-07 at 06:21 PM.
    to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    So you are saying that during the first few weeks you have members who want to raid normals and you let them, then once LFR opens in a few weeks they will completely leave you high and dry? I don't see how opening LFR completely from the start would change the situation.
    I'm saying that letting people clear the raid on easy mode in the first few weeks removes the motivation for them to do it on a harder mode for the next few months. Why is this difficult to understand? It's the same complaint people have made against heroic modes for years now, only for the last year it's drifted down to LFR vs. Normal.
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    I'm saying that letting people clear the raid on easy mode in the first few weeks removes the motivation for them to do it on a harder mode for the next few months. Why is this difficult to understand? It's the same complaint people have made against heroic modes for years now, only for the last year it's drifted down to LFR vs. Normal.
    And by gating LFR for 1-6 weeks will not change this for some the motivation will still be removed.

    Hell those doing normal mite just be BSing about until LFR opens.

    So once again why punish those who enjoy LFR only do LFR for something that is going to happen anyway.
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    Waah waah, I want my effortless content now
    Ok, I did think that was pretty funny.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    My guild has many such players. Our raiding population has dwindled over the years as more and more of them have become satisfied doing LFR and hanging out in guild.

    Maybe if your attitude is one where you consider such players "worthless" or that they "weren't a contribution to begin with", then this doesn't affect you. You can simply toss them out and grab another recruit. But not all of us are in guilds where we discard players who don't perform or get burnt out on harder raiding, because they are our friends who we've known for years, many times in real life. Also, adding new people to augment the raiding population is increasingly hard on lower pop servers.

    You can wave your hand and say that these players don't exist, but myself and many others in this forum are suffering from this right now.
    You're hiding another words inside every of your posts. You should just say it directly: you're so selfish, that you want other players to be forced to do content you like, cuz it will bring more pleasure personally to you. Certainly I'm talking about easier recruiting. But forcing players to do content, they are not actually enjoying, will never work again - you should just deal with it. It's players own choice to do or not to do harder content. If they're choosing easier content, when they have actual choice, then they never was true raiders and was doing this content just because they haven't other choice. But time changes. We were dealing with fact, that we're only watchers in this game for about 7 years. Now just our turn to say it: abopt or leave.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2013-03-07 at 06:47 PM.
    Sorry for my bad english.
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