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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR gating is necessary. If it's not used, people run LFR to gear up for regular mode. They grab items that give them a big advantage in the normal mode and ROFLSTOMP it. Then they all cry that LFR is necessary in order to raid.
    LFR is already used in this manner. You have no point. Blizzard intends for players to gear through LFR to a large extent. For a large majority of players, LFR is necessary to raid successfully.

  2. #82
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    The sky is falling, oh....wait.... no it's just raining. So us LFRer's have to wait a week. No biggie, we'll have it for months. Don't know if I agree with gating the first section for a week but raiders have already cried too much about LFR that it was a bone tossed to them. Do I like it, not really but I'm big enough to realize Blizzard is trying to appease a portion of their player base.

    As for LFR killing raiding in general, if raiding in general was more fun than more people would do it. Don't blame blizzard for people preferring LFR over normal.
    Last edited by dryankem; 2013-03-07 at 06:52 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    You're hiding another words inside every of your posts. You should just say it directly: you're so selfish, that you want other players to be forced to do content you like, cuz it will bring more pleasure personally to you. Certainly I'm talking about easier recruiting. But forcing players to do content, they are not actually enjoying, will never work again - you should just deal with it. It's players own choice to do or not to do harder content. If they're choosing easier content, when they have actual choice, then they never was true raiders and was doing this content just because they haven't other choice. But time changes. We were dealing with fact, that we're only watchers in this game for about 7 years. Now just our turn to say it: abopt or leave.
    Couldn't agree more.

    This whole punishing LFR raiders because a select few want to cry on forums has gotten old fast and I have a feeling ether before the end of this x-pac or the start of the next one it will come to a end and those who act all self centered will need to adapt or leave.

    Blizzard made dungeons harder in cata because a select few cryed on forums and now the whole gating crap that has started since the start of MOP.

    blizzard will ether wise up or the subs will keep bleeding.

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  4. #84
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dryankem View Post
    Don't know if I agree with gating the first section for a week but raiders have already cried to much how they are no longer special that it was a bone tossed to them.
    I don't mind a bit that Blizzard is, through their actions, giving non-LFR raiding something of a preference/head-start on new raids and seeing end-game bosses. That's their choice and if it bothers people to wait, then they should go and seek a guild that will allow them to do otherwise. If the argument is the one where there's not enough time to play or a reliable schedule problem then I don't see how gating things for a bit is a problem either.

    In any case, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee: LFR has been split up and gated since day one. It's very likely to stay that way.

    So yes. LFR gating. Again. Suck it up and deal with it.
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    I don't mind a bit that Blizzard is, through their actions, giving non-LFR raiding something of a preference/head-start on new raids and seeing end-game bosses. That's their choice and if it bothers people to wait, then they should go and seek a guild that will allow them to do otherwise. If the argument is the one where there's not enough time to play or a reliable schedule problem then I don't see how gating things for a bit is a problem either.

    In any case, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee: LFR has been split up and gated since day one. It's very likely to stay that way.

    So yes. LFR gating. Again. Suck it up and deal with it.
    O look a mod who agree's with something blizzard has done....nothing new here to see.

    those who do Normal/Heroic Mode bitched a shit ton at the start of MOP due to the raids being locked and MMO-Champs and blizzard's forums was lit up cause of it. But now its just LFR raiders the Normal/Heroic Mode raiders are ok with it.

    bias much got to love things that don't effect you right.

    feel free to infact/ban me when my reply to you breaks no rules it isn't like I didn't give you the attitude that you just gave LFR raiders.

    Also to your sig is kinda funny because you just broke rule 2/3
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by dryankem View Post

    As for LFR killing raiding in general, if raiding in general was more fun than more people would do it. Don't blame blizzard for people preferring LFR over normal.
    Looool.

    Sorry, it's just funny because I'm starting to see this exact phrase said quite often lately. It looks very similar to this one:

    "If 25 man raiding was more fun than more people would do it. They do 10s because they prefer them."

    Know what happened to 25 man raiding? It's pretty much dead.

    I'm a big fan of normal raiding, but, if 25s are any indication, then GG 10 mans too.

  7. #87
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    But don't you think, that it's player's choice to do or not to do that? .
    You didn't follow all those topics on dailies and LFR where ppl said "nobody forces you" and "your choice" only to hear "yes, we feel forced". Often followed by "We feel forced because we are so hardcore". Now..I don't know what your definition of hardcore is, but currently some of the true hardcore run 3 chars through normal in altraids to feed their mains for the World first raids. I don't see any topics how they feel forced.

    I'd say anyone who comes here to complain that a video game "forces" him into anything leads a blessed life and needs a reality check kick in the butt.

    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Completely bizarre nonsense. Since LFR significantly FEWER people attempt and finish normal modes. Not sure what their internal criteria are - if they are smart enough to have any - but normal mode participation should be dangerously low. Hopefully low enough that the numbers guys at Activision set the videogame guys at Blizzard straight.
    Where are your numbers from? pre LFraid 500 000 were in normal modes according to wowprogress. In T 14 39 000 guilds were in normal modes. This pretty much comes close to half a million ppl too.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  8. #88
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Looool.

    Sorry, it's just funny because I'm starting to see this exact phrase said quite often lately. It looks very similar to this one:

    "If 25 man raiding was more fun than more people would do it. They do 10s because they prefer them."

    Know what happened to 25 man raiding? It's pretty much dead.

    I'm a big fan of normal raiding, but, if 25s are any indication, then GG 10 mans too.
    25 is dead because it's not fun getting 25 people together, not due to which was actually more fun to do. Blizzard didn't kill it, the player based just didn't want the hassle. Now there is another option besides having to find a raiding guild and fitting into their roster and/or schedule. It still isn't the game's fault. They could put gold unicorn's for 25s and people would still do 10s or LFR.

    When 25s had the best gear, people did it for the gear, but being equal it's obvious what the player base prefers.
    Last edited by dryankem; 2013-03-07 at 07:11 PM.

  9. #89
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Couldn't agree more.

    This whole punishing LFR raiders because a select few want to cry on forums has gotten old fast and I have a feeling ether before the end of this x-pac or the start of the next one it will come to a end and those who act all self centered will need to adapt or leave.

    Blizzard made dungeons harder in cata because a select few cryed on forums and now the whole gating crap that has started since the start of MOP.

    blizzard will ether wise up or the subs will keep bleeding.

    "sits back with popcorn and watch's the show"
    Oh, the old "subs will bleed" argument. Anything makes subs bleed these days. Very conviniently. Why did subs not bleed when there was no LFraid and 2 million ppl were bared from raiding that then found their way to raiding through LFR? You seriously tell me if Blizzard would have released the full LFRaid tier last week, subs would stay stable? I swear we would have the same topic just with the words "Subs bleed because Blizz was so stupid to release all of LFRaid and now ppl are bored"

    As for " punishing LFR raiders because a select few want to cry on forums" - how is that better or worse than LFRaiders whining that they have to "gasp" wait a week...and then wait again a bit? And if they don't whine about that they whine about loot drop rates.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ylera View Post
    LFR gating is absolutely necessary. You really want to clear the whole raid in LFR on the first night of the patch and have no new raid to experience for the next ~6 months?
    If you consider LFR as a valid raiding experience (da faq?) then yes.
    Please tell me how is it different from people unsubing untill its entirely unlocked, resubing, clearing and then whining?

  11. #91
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dryankem View Post
    25 is dead because ....
    I count 9 25 man guilds in the top 20. And I count 25 ppl in the LFRaids. But I guess "dead" counts only for what everyone personally decides? Like,...LFr doesn't count because it is LFR and the Top 20 doesn't count because it is only 20. So..what counts?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Content is an entirely subjective concept here.
    I dont think so. Imagine WoW as a cake. Some people eat the entire cake, some people eat only half of the cake and others eat only the cherry on the top (latest PvE Raid). Last thing I would like from my chef is cutting my favorite cherry in pieces, giving me only one piece and tell me to wait untill he can feel secure about giving me the rest of my cherry.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    I count 9 25 man guilds in the top 20. And I count 25 ppl in the LFRaids. But I guess "dead" counts only for what everyone personally decides? Like,...LFr doesn't count because it is LFR and the Top 20 doesn't count because it is only 20. So..what counts?
    Yes, because guilds in the top 20 represent the same type of recruitment that middle-of-the-road guilds experience.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Oh, the old "subs will bleed" argument. Anything makes subs bleed these days. Very conviniently. Why did subs not bleed when there was no LFraid and 2 million ppl were bared from raiding that then found their way to raiding through LFR? You seriously tell me if Blizzard would have released the full LFRaid tier last week, subs would stay stable? I swear we would have the same topic just with the words "Subs bleed because Blizz was so stupid to release all of LFRaid and now ppl are bored"

    As for " punishing LFR raiders because a select few want to cry on forums" - how is that better or worse than LFRaiders whining that they have to "gasp" wait a week...and then wait again a bit? And if they don't whine about that they whine about loot drop rates.
    Since the start of Cata wow's subbs have been bleeding and what is the most common thing from then to now.

    Blizzard lisseing to the small few on there forums.

    But once more ill ask again a question normal/heroic raiders refuse to answer.

    "Why was it ok for you to bitch that you had no raids at the start of MOP but it is ok for them to not give LFR raiders anything on patch day."
    if your reply is "because its easy'er" don't reply at all because that's a bullshit answer.

    So let me give the real answer. "gating LFR dose not effect you so you don't care but yet you feel that blizzard's choice is right because you don't want other players to play a easy'er mode of raiding then you and finishing it faster"

    Doing all of TOT-LFR day one dose not finish the content because those who run it still have to farm LFR to gear up for the next patch just like Normal/Heroic Raiders....
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  15. #95
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    I count 9 25 man guilds in the top 20. And I count 25 ppl in the LFRaids. But I guess "dead" counts only for what everyone personally decides? Like,...LFr doesn't count because it is LFR and the Top 20 doesn't count because it is only 20. So..what counts?
    Yeah I used the term loosely, 25s really aren't dead. =)

    But still if you had to start a raid would you look for 24 other people or 9?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    No, I understood just fine and the question I was asking still is relevant. If people will choose the easy path, what difference is a few weeks going to make? Show me a player who is currently raiding normals just to see the end boss that would stop if LFR was open on day one and the guild that would take such a player. If such a player exists they would likely stop showing once they reached the end or once LFR opened, meaning they are almost worthless to a raiding guild.

    Could it pull some players away from normal modes? Maybe, but those players weren't a contribution to begin with. I'm sure there are some extreme examples out there, a few really skilled players where ilvl doesn't matter as much, but I doubt it's more than a handful.
    It really isn't going to make a single fucking difference. Honestly. It won't lure players back to doing normals and furthermore the normal players won't get their fill of gear by the time 6 weeks is up (hell I doubt most of them will have cleared the last boss) and theyl be doing lfr to get a boost anyway. IT's just a naked attempt to get you to sub for longer. It' so shitty.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    So because YOUR time is limited they must have the LFR revolve around YOUR time? Next thing you'll want is to have all bosses' health cut in half because it takes too long for YOUR time.
    Ummmm yes? LFR was deliberetily designed for people who have no time for guild commitment. Show me the rock under which you were living for the last 1 year.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    I'm saying that letting people clear the raid on easy mode in the first few weeks removes the motivation for them to do it on a harder mode for the next few months. Why is this difficult to understand? It's the same complaint people have made against heroic modes for years now, only for the last year it's drifted down to LFR vs. Normal.
    No not really. Let's be honest for a minute. The motivation for raiding has always been about gear and for a smaller minority challenge. Normals provide the better of both. Nobody who is set on running normals will all of a sudden jump to LFR and abandon his or heard raiding guild because LFR is open on week one. While I"m sure that's true for some, the sad reality is that LFR has already poached that source of players. In the past they had no choice at all and had to raid normals for gear. Now instead of having their lives dictated by a raiding guild they just wait another week to see lfr and get gear. At this point the people who are doing normals are going to stick with doing normals. Opening lfr on week one or week ten won't fucking matter one bit. In fact what your more likely to see is after 6 weeks players will still be running both to get the boost they need.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by velde046 View Post
    Not really, Blizzard decides.... and the choice you have is to accept it or not. And I think it's a smart decision really. If they want to take normal raiders seriously and not make LFR mandatory for them, this is an excellent decision.
    They could resolve that problem by simply making new LFR raids rewards equal to previous tier Normal raid rewards. Problem solved, raiders happy, LFR raiders happy. I didnt took much resources to figure it out either. Blizzard should hire me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 08:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    I'm saying that letting people clear the raid on easy mode in the first few weeks removes the motivation for them to do it on a harder mode for the next few months. Why is this difficult to understand? It's the same complaint people have made against heroic modes for years now, only for the last year it's drifted down to LFR vs. Normal.
    I think it is time for you to find a more ambitious guild.
    Last edited by Dzudzadzo; 2013-03-07 at 07:31 PM.

  20. #100
    I really hate when people generalize everyone in their position as conforming to their ideals. Please stop doing this, it's obnoxious.

    OT:I only raid LFR and do other stuff in the game when I have the time. I enjoy LFR because it gives me the option to raid now that I have less time. Does it bother me that LFR is gated? Not in the slightest. Am I going to enjoy it when it comes out? Most definitely.

    I don't understand this idea that you're going to unsub because LFR isn't available day 1. If LFR is the only thing you want to do why are you paying $15 a month for it? It is surely not enough for me to pay it(and yes I know this is subjective but so is how much a dollar means to an individual). Thankfully there is an abundance of stuff to do while doing when LFR is not available or, hell, when it is available and in queue for LFR.
    Last edited by Moistmuffins; 2013-03-07 at 07:45 PM.

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