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  1. #21
    Field Marshal Saiako's Avatar
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    Seeing as my topic go closed even though I am not even talking about just patch 5.2 but the spec as a whole I will just repost what I said in my thread here.

    Where do I even begin? Ever since cata and beyond it seems that blizzard has gone out of their way to kick on retri palas as much as they possibly can along with other hybird classes such as shamans as it feel like that they do not seem to want to do anything but heal in pvp at all.

    I remembered in wotlk(for all its other faults) were blizzard seem to have the philosophy that most classes and each of their specs were to be viable to some degree in pvp and pve. But once cata was out it seem that their philosophy seem to have changed so much so that it felt far to much like vanilla were each class could only fitt one role I remember that one month after cata came out that I quit due not being to do pve or even pvp seeing how bad I was, ofc this got better later on in the xpack.But now in MoP it seems worse than ever I don´t see how the game as a whole can improve if they need to do the same thing each xpack were some classes/spcs suffer so much that they are almost phased out until some fix comes a long wich makes them viable again.

    What makes me the most pissed off out of everything is that classes such as mages and DKs who are doing so well atm are receiving so much attention and care you would think it was their class/spec that was suffering the most out of all the current classes feels like I am living in a bad joke but the thing is its neither funny nor do I really hear anyone but blizzard laughing.

    As it currently stands I feel like being a retribution paladin in world of warcraft is a waste of time and space in the game I feel gulity over playing a shity sub par spec. I already went through TBC were it was hard as hell to get into any guilds or pvp teams as ret I feel that by now I have payed my dues and that things should work enough so that sitting afk in SW is not the only thing I can do. I love my paladin having played it since the start of TBC and nothing has changed since that point and it will never change.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead, and that World Of Warcraft died with him."

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  2. #22
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    I feel almost exactly the same as you Saiako, like reading my own thoughts. Honestly, I partly enjoy playing 'that shitty subpar spec' and accomplishing things people wouldnt expect, but it does become tiresome...

    I play several classes, and I feel like MoP PvP in general is the worst it has ever been. Except for monks, I really love monks, and if you like ret I strongly suggest you try one out. But I just dont really enjoy my ret right now, and if Im not enjoying what has been my favorite thing in wow by far for years, then I just cant justify continuing my sub. 5.2 brought some small improvements to pvp, but overall I dont think mop pvp can be salvaged, the changes that need made are not the type they are willing to make between expansions. I am looking forward to the next xpac.

  3. #23
    Field Marshal Saiako's Avatar
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    Well seeing as someone else told me in the thread i made blizzard dose not even want to ret apart for keeping subs in game pretty much , as that was what they said in the pvp post.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead, and that World Of Warcraft died with him."

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  4. #24
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    Yes I saw that. I think its interesting that Brian Holinka got hired and promoted to senior game designer in such a short time. Suggests that there was/is a major lack of talent in there balance team. Probably related to Titan, D3, SC2, wows age. I remember when the A team designers left, then the B team, possibly the C team, is wow getting balanced by the D team these days?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Trisrx View Post
    I feel almost exactly the same as you Saiako, like reading my own thoughts. Honestly, I partly enjoy playing 'that shitty subpar spec' and accomplishing things people wouldnt expect, but it does become tiresome...

    I play several classes, and I feel like MoP PvP in general is the worst it has ever been. Except for monks, I really love monks, and if you like ret I strongly suggest you try one out. But I just dont really enjoy my ret right now, and if Im not enjoying what has been my favorite thing in wow by far for years, then I just cant justify continuing my sub. 5.2 brought some small improvements to pvp, but overall I dont think mop pvp can be salvaged, the changes that need made are not the type they are willing to make between expansions. I am looking forward to the next xpac.
    Yeah, 6 years+ of being the underdog is a bit much. I'm not sure how many more years of almost every hybrid dps underperforming in PvP it will take for people to get sick of this game on a philosophical level. This game is already in decline, and their inability (and often probably unwillingnes) to balance PvP is going to kill it even faster. When a game is past its prime nostalgia becomes a key marketing tool, but why would anyone feel nostalgic for a game run by biased developers who clearly treat some of their customers as second class. Abusive relationships just don't last very long...
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-03-08 at 04:16 PM.

  6. #26
    I watched Vanguard`s stream for 4 hours...Disc/rogue/ret vs several comps. They won like 3 games total and i doubt rogue or disc was the problem.
    So basically if Vanguards can`t make ret work no1 can

  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk
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    I really just think that they need to change Speed of Light for Prot and Ret to be a 20 second-ish gap closer for Ret that roots the target for a second (not stun like warrior charge so it doesn't interrupt). The two worst melee in the game have speed increases instead of instant gap closers. Kind of says something.

    Other than that, they really needed to do something like rework GOAK. Goak, IMO, is the issue. They can't buff our sustained too much because omg what happens when we have Wings, HA, and Goak up? People explode and cry.

    It doesn't surprise me that Ret/Rogue/Disc wasn't winning games like before MoP. Ret lost all of its usefulness and wasn't compensated. Where's compensation for Last Word/Selfless Healer WoGs? Who cares if it had a 10 second cd, it was USEFUL and STRATEGIC. Where's the compensation for Cata Sacred Shield being gone?

    There's no reason for a Ret/Disc to take a Ret over... say, a Hunter.

  8. #28
    Vanguards lost alot to a ret/dk/disc team actually. Ret/rogue is just not as good a comp. I think vangaurds cleave will get a comeback this season.

  9. #29
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edea View Post
    Vanguards lost alot to a ret/dk/disc team actually. Ret/rogue is just not as good a comp. I think vangaurds cleave will get a comeback this season.
    That's because Necrotic/Icy Touch purge smashes both Disc priests and Ret Paladins.

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    No season yet so I can't say much about it, but in general we're in much better shape. Our self-heal is a lot stronger and our sustained dps also a tad improved. Plus, now I can safely stick with SoJ and use Fist of Justice. For the first time in a long while I can say I'm able to beat a Shadow Priest or a Mage in 1v1 (equal gear, etc).

    Plus, since these days all I kill are the random gankers in Isle of Thunder, I couldn't be happier. Our server is mostly Horde so we're frequently outnumbered. That, and the fact that the Horde has a bunch of high-end PvE guilds, makes them comfortable enough to walk around in full dragonkiller gear whereas I don't drop a foot without equipping my PvP set. Result: More often than not I'll walk by a group of them ganking a random alliance, pop all cooldowns and kill everyone with 130k dmg TVs. Fun times are being had in the Isle of Thunder (almost reaching 2500 world kills in Pandaria!).


  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    No season yet so I can't say much about it, but in general we're in much better shape. Our self-heal is a lot stronger and our sustained dps also a tad improved. Plus, now I can safely stick with SoJ and use Fist of Justice. For the first time in a long while I can say I'm able to beat a Shadow Priest or a Mage in 1v1 (equal gear, etc).

    Plus, since these days all I kill are the random gankers in Isle of Thunder, I couldn't be happier. Our server is mostly Horde so we're frequently outnumbered. That, and the fact that the Horde has a bunch of high-end PvE guilds, makes them comfortable enough to walk around in full dragonkiller gear whereas I don't drop a foot without equipping my PvP set. Result: More often than not I'll walk by a group of them ganking a random alliance, pop all cooldowns and kill everyone with 130k dmg TVs. Fun times are being had in the Isle of Thunder (almost reaching 2500 world kills in Pandaria!).
    I bet those are the same people that complain Ret is OP, to be honest. Lol.

  12. #32
    Biggest problem with ret currently is still survival in that we are very very susceptible to endless fear and stun spamming with no gap closers. I feel like im been cced more now that wings are every 2 min. DR needs to be looked at again.

    Not been able to do anything at all while stunned is an issue. Druids for example can cast barkskin while stunned, we cant cast anything except bubble.

    Druid root and solar flare combo needs to be addressed. That shit it OP as.

    Damage wise we are up there. Nothing compared to DKs or mages, but still up there.

  13. #33
    But what about 1v1? is there any class/spec who can beat Retribution, with exception of Frost mage? You simply don't die ... bubble, Lay on Hands, heals ...

  14. #34
    So is SOJ (with fist of justice) the best seal to use now for ret 5.2? I'm thinking of going back to my ret this season.

  15. #35
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    The spec is dead until it gets a CC with more than a 10 yards range, no one is going to take someone with nothing to contribute to a CC chain, unless the CC target is dumb enough to come stand next to us.
    Stop talking BS, ret is doing perfectly fine in 5.2, excellent at kiting. Great self healing.. u cried for more healing.. got it,, and still crying..


  16. #36
    Comming from a rogue, its hard to keybind 16 spells suddently :/

  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    So is SOJ (with fist of justice) the best seal to use now for ret 5.2? I'm thinking of going back to my ret this season.
    I guess it depends on who you play with. Since my partner is a shadow priest that, outside of Mind Flay, has no snares, I always go for SoJ + Fist of Justice. When doing, say, world PvP with people that can slow down I usually switch the seal around a bit more for extra DPS.


  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu View Post
    But what about 1v1? is there any class/spec who can beat Retribution, with exception of Frost mage? You simply don't die ... bubble, Lay on Hands, heals ...
    Except any meaningful PvP isn't 1v1. And no LoH in Arena...

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 08:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    Stop talking BS, ret is doing perfectly fine in 5.2, excellent at kiting. Great self healing.. u cried for more healing.. got it,, and still crying..
    Actually most Rets asked for better survivability when trained. Blizzard chose to interpret that as more heals, which is not what most Rets (in my personal experience) were asking for. Basically we still need something to help with all of the CC. Don't get me wrong, better heals are nice, but they didn't really solve some of the root issues with the spec.

    And bubble is overrated by players who don't play the spec. It causes Forbearance, reduces damage output, and can be dispelled (and often is if the other player knows what they are doing), and it is on a 5 minute CD. Once bubble is spent, there really are not any meaningful defenses for a ret.

  19. #39
    Field Marshal Saiako's Avatar
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    So? ret is failing bad in pvp and frost bomb gets a 4% damage buff even after the - damage vs players on the ability were is our extra 4% damage buff to xxxx ability? To me this just further proves what I mean by mages getting so much attention even though they clearly do not need it even if its supose to be a "pve" buff. Hell the lack of pve buffs to ret is rather odd all things considered.......
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead, and that World Of Warcraft died with him."

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  20. #40
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiako View Post
    So? ret is failing bad in pvp and frost bomb gets a 4% damage buff even after the - damage vs players on the ability were is our extra 4% damage buff to xxxx ability? To me this just further proves what I mean by mages getting so much attention even though they clearly do not need it even if its supose to be a "pve" buff. Hell the lack of pve buffs to ret is rather odd all things considered.......
    Yeah... pretty much.

    Did anybody do any arenas today? How did it go? I'm honestly sick of Holy at this point, and the Hunter, WW monk, and Boomkin are all more effective than Ret it seems. I might actually shelf the pally for PvP and just do LFR on him (too time-constrained with PvP/school to do any actual raiding.) unless people really think this season is much better. I honestly think the problem is that Selfless Healer needs to go. It needs to be replaced by something else, and sacred shield made more effective. Then buff WoG on our selves by like 30% as it still sucks and make Art of War procs be able to be used for instant flash heals at like 40% reduced mana cost. We would have offheal capability through Sacred Shield (not 160k burst FoL without losing damage for it), be able to effectively use resources for survivability, and have passive damage absorb through Sacred Shield.

    It's just really depressing playing the Feral and still getting like 80k instant cast self heals with battle fatigue. And then having it increase my damage... too bad I'm going boomy for guild RBG's, I guess.

    Ret feels less healing capable, squishier, and causes less pressure. The 5% SoL change was nice... but Ret has no consistent pressure compared to something such as Feral bleeds.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2013-03-13 at 09:12 AM.

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