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  1. #181
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    The spells duplicated by Havoc are independent spells, the damage isn't just copied on the Havoced target, i.e the spells can crit on one target and not on the other, debuffs only apply to the target that has them etc...
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  2. #182
    I believe the CB/SB hit and the Havoc'd CB/SB hit are independent. The one that hits the target with the damage modifier will be modified accordingly, the other one will calculate its damage according to its target.

    The one thing that's great tho, is that you can Havoc say Horridon and profit from its damage debuff when you SB the adds.

    Edit: Beat to the punch by the almighty Zum. Well played
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  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Nryka View Post
    According to the latest all-around T14H sims by Brusalk:


    • Single target fights: Crit >= Haste > Mastery (Haste becomes better than crit at higher ilvls)
    • Two-target fights: Haste > Crit >(=) Mastery
    • AoE fights w/ 8 targets: Mastery >>> Haste > Crit

    Now, keep in mind your personal results may vary. It's best to sim your character.

    Moreover, keep in mind the various types of fights T15 has. It's probably safe to go with Haste >= Mastery > Crit.

    Finally, the right reforge only offer a very minor increase in most cases, with particular edge cases where one shine better than the others.


    This is all GoSup?

  4. #184
    Mechagnome Hexotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeiri View Post
    The woes of having Havoc bound to a shift modifier by default
    wait, im lost, are you saying its bad? lol. Works fine with a razer naga, thats how most of my spells are set up.
    Anyways, nice to se you on the forums If you havent realized yet, im that crappy warlock from phase two.
    Last edited by Hexotic; 2013-03-13 at 02:56 PM.

  5. #185
    Regarding target macros:

    I have three buttons for havoc.

    s=focus
    d=target
    f=mouseover

    Two for shadow burn

    z=target
    c=mouseover

    Modifiers can be a pain in the ass when rushed. Since they cleaned up the specs I have all these extra buttons I can bind to!

    Also, If any one knows how:

    I did Horidon for the first time last night and and was wishing I had a good macro to target the priority target. I need to make one that will target A if A is up, B if B is up etc. I suppose it would use the [exists] command. I was about to start figuring it out but if anyone wants to share...?

    Last night I just whipped up as assist macro for our Boomer who had done the fight before and was able to find the targets faster.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-03-13 at 03:17 PM.

  6. #186
    I'm thinking of using Fel Imp on Jhin'rok to make sure i can always have it in the pools, regardless of where the boss is.

    You guys reckon it's worth it? Also is the demon training glyph a dps increase or loss or neutral for a Fel Imp?

  7. #187
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    Your pet is supposed to get the buff when you get it, not when he's himself in the pool.
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  8. #188
    Question for some of you guys...

    I know it's almost never a good idea to use chaos bolt when you have 3 or more stacks of backdraft, but what about when you have so much haste that your incinerates start to have less than 1sec cast time with backdraft? With the VP trinket proc and backdraft, I'm at around 1second (With Heroism I'm at under 1second). Now, that's just with me balancing haste and mastery-- I've seen a few destro locks go full haste, and even go as far as gem pure haste. I imagine that with just normal raid buffs, their incinerates go to under 1second.

    So here's my question- I assume that it's not worth using backdraft procs for incinerates at this point if you have so much haste, and you should only use them for chaos bolts. Is this correct?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Your pet is supposed to get the buff when you get it, not when he's himself in the pool.
    Okay good to know. Imp didn't work anyway, just tried it out in lfr. When using Flee it just stood there and did nothing.

  10. #190
    i was wondering if Rain of Fire has certain hastebreakpoints since i can not really find something about that.
    im not a person who reforges full stat x since random calculator tells stat x is 0,2% better than stat y in clean conditions.
    im more like reforging for certain hastecaps to have full duration Dot´s resulting in less refreshs over the fight.

    so Rain of Fire 6 sec duration is really annoying to cast all the time, any hastebreakpoints for this?
    Maybe the same as for Shadowflame? (8,3%; 25%)

    Nice guide btw, first one i found that seems to be useful and discribes more than the basics.

  11. #191
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    Rain of Fire doesn't gain new ticks with Haste, it simply reduces its duration. Probably because this used to be a channeled spell, and still is for Demo/Aff.
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  12. #192
    So has there been any math/estimations on just how much buffed (or bugged) Rain of fire has gotten?

  13. #193
    Hm I wonder what the haste soft cap for destro is? because even with 4717 haste (I have affli as 2nd specc) I run into gcd with heroism backdraft and casting Incin with 0.9 sec cast time which is a dps loss or is haste still better as crit? ( I dont want to put everything into mastery as I GoSup)

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinedoom View Post
    Okay good to know. Imp didn't work anyway, just tried it out in lfr. When using Flee it just stood there and did nothing.
    Flee has a 40 yard range. You can just manually move him closer then cast it.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabsy View Post
    Question for some of you guys...

    I know it's almost never a good idea to use chaos bolt when you have 3 or more stacks of backdraft, but what about when you have so much haste that your incinerates start to have less than 1sec cast time with backdraft? With the VP trinket proc and backdraft, I'm at around 1second (With Heroism I'm at under 1second). Now, that's just with me balancing haste and mastery-- I've seen a few destro locks go full haste, and even go as far as gem pure haste. I imagine that with just normal raid buffs, their incinerates go to under 1second.

    So here's my question- I assume that it's not worth using backdraft procs for incinerates at this point if you have so much haste, and you should only use them for chaos bolts. Is this correct?
    Gold question , i did that first week but just so my incinerates are at exactly 1(1.1) sec cast time under normal raidbuffs(+ backdraft) and than i realised it is not needed yet to max all this haste when i can keep still balance between it and crit rating , at least until higher ilvl when indd haste will be a more gain than crit.

  16. #196
    do our pet gain our damage buffs on primordius? i did it last week as sacrifice because i figured it did not, even though i run gosup on most fights. wondering if i should use gosup tonight. i spend most of the fight dropping rof's and spamming chaos bolts on the boss.

  17. #197
    Keyboard Turner Chaosbeard's Avatar
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    /compare?items=95326.0.0.0.76885.76668.0.0.152:95329.0.4806.0.76694.76668:95328.0.0.0.76694 .76668.76682.0.138:94929.0.4892.0.76694:94799.0.4429.0.76668.0.0.0.138:95207.0.0.0.76682.7 6694.0.0.138:94948.0.4414:95138:94738.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.138:95203.0.0.0.76694.0.0.0.137:94531: 94513.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.138:95506.0.4442.0.76668.0.0.0.138:95473.0.4434.0.76694:95325.0.4430.0 .76694.0.0.0.165:94990.0.4895.0.76694.76694.76694.0.138

    ^ that is what I was looking at for our BIS list. I'm worried that I *might* be putting too much value on Cha-Ye's.

    Thoughts? Sorry, I can't post full links just yet.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Nryka View Post
    Haste and Mastery have the same weight when Haste==Mastery. It's generally best to keep them close, and not favor one over the other; they "synergize" very well with each other.
    What you said here doesn't jive with my research into secondary stats as Destruction.

    My results are as follows:

    • Haste and Crit don't synergize much, but provide roughly the same benefit per rating.
    • As the number of targets increase, Mastery's value increases significantly. When AoE'ing Mastery is by far the best stat, and on roughly 4 targets Mastery becomes better than Haste/Crit

    In addition, on fights where you spend a very significant amount of time using Chaos Bolt or Shadowburn due to genning embers from Shadowburn returns, A full mastery setup with Grim of Sac will be best.

    On 2 target cleave fights, Grim of Sac is still behind Sup/Serv with a Haste/Crit build

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by healtesse View Post
    So In Destruction with GoSupr : priority stat are Intell > Haste > Crit> mastery and with GoSacr : priority is Intell>Mastery>criti>Hast ?

    Is right? for be sure i'm good understand?
    SoSup/Serv:

    Haste == Crit > Mastery for 1-3 targets. Haste == Crit == Mastery for 3 < # targets <= 4ish


    GoSac:

    Mastery > Crit > Haste for #targets <= 5ish

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Is there any recommended baseline level crit if playing with this priority?

    I'm tempted to try playing destro with my affliction reforges, but I've got a pitifully low 11% or something crit iirc.
    No.

    However if you're using GoSup/Serv you should reduce your mastery as much as you can, and gain either haste/crit. The most optimal setup for single target that I've found so far, is having Haste Rating + Crit Rating > Mastery Rating

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grudge902 View Post
    I have a qui question regarding Havoc. On an encounter that has 1 mob with a damage modifier such as Horridon or Tortos is it best to Havoc the boss who takes increased dmg or the add you are trying to kill? If you havoc the boss and chaos bolt an add does the extra CB from Havoc gain the dmg boost from the boss debuff?

    I realize spamming shadowburn on low hp mobs is better regardless but I was wondering how havoc interacted with dmg modification.
    This has been semi-answered, but I'll answer it here again:

    Havoc works as a mini-chain lightning in the game code. The second spell is literally a second spell being cast at the havoc target when your cast finishes. As such it has a separate chance to crit and all else from the spell it copied.

    As for what to Havoc, you should always Havoc whatever needs to die. If you have to kill adds and you don't need boss damage, you should Havoc a high-health add. Havoc'ing the boss when you don't need boss damage and are wiping to adds means you are a selfish prick who only cares about his own numbers. SO DON'T BE A SELFISH PRICK!

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Neothos View Post
    I never understood what haste==mastery meant... does it mean we choose one and stack that? or that we should try and keep them around the same amount? (for example 6500 haste and 6000 mastery)
    It means that a gain of ~50 stat of either haste or mastery provides roughly the same DPS increase. (It doesn't mean that the stats stay that way. Just that in your current gear the previous is true)

    It essentially means that you can gain either Haste or Mastery and get the same DPS increase. (No practical difference between each other)

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinedoom View Post
    Currently reforged crit>=haste>mastery as indicated by my own simcraft results. But will be on heroic Horridon tonight and I'm wondering what to change there.

    I assume mastery gains quite a bit in value there? I don't think there will be a lot of room for F&B but you will be able to cast lots of chaos bolts and shadowburn with all the embers you generate from RoF.

    Any specific things in gearing and/or playstyle you guys can think of for that encounter?
    There's a TON of room for FnB. You should go for full Mastery and GoSac. There's always shadowburns to havoc, and the vast majority of my time is spent trying to consume my excess embers with Chaos Bolts or AoE'ing with FnB. I STRONGLY recommend you take MF for this fight.

    Side note for Horridon Heroic: CoE knocks the dino back, as dose FnB-spells in range.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganja0102 View Post
    So iv done it and decided to focus on destro for our 25man raiding now, I have a quick question, Haste or crit? Iv seen a few armorys on this thread that have crit or haste or crit with mastery gems ect...

    Just looking at the best way to optimize my character as im respeccing/gemming/forging from affliction.
    See one of my above responses

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    This is all GoSup?
    IIRC, yes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabsy View Post
    Question for some of you guys...

    I know it's almost never a good idea to use chaos bolt when you have 3 or more stacks of backdraft, but what about when you have so much haste that your incinerates start to have less than 1sec cast time with backdraft? With the VP trinket proc and backdraft, I'm at around 1second (With Heroism I'm at under 1second). Now, that's just with me balancing haste and mastery-- I've seen a few destro locks go full haste, and even go as far as gem pure haste. I imagine that with just normal raid buffs, their incinerates go to under 1second.

    So here's my question- I assume that it's not worth using backdraft procs for incinerates at this point if you have so much haste, and you should only use them for chaos bolts. Is this correct?
    You can be stacking Haste if you like, however you're right that once you hit <1 sec incinerates the value of Haste drops. A better solution is for single target/cleave to go Haste + Crit > Mastery.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 12:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Selaiah View Post
    Hm I wonder what the haste soft cap for destro is? because even with 4717 haste (I have affli as 2nd specc) I run into gcd with heroism backdraft and casting Incin with 0.9 sec cast time which is a dps loss or is haste still better as crit? ( I dont want to put everything into mastery as I GoSup)
    I don't have an exact number, but if you ever hit sub-1 second cast times you should drop some haste for some crit.

  19. #199
    so is there something for the Immolate ticks like for corruption etc? haste ratings I mean for extra tick

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Selaiah View Post
    so is there something for the Immolate ticks like for corruption etc? haste ratings I mean for extra tick
    Not important enough to warrant discussion. Immolate does too little damage for it to matter.

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