1. #1161
    I am still of the opinion that having such enormous amounts of haste not only affects your Incinerate DPS, but your overall DPS with it, especially considering how close our stats are to each other. Why go over the GCD if you can take the other route and add some other stats in your gear instead? Perhaps go for crit and mastery, which also affects Shadowburn as well as Conflagrate.

    And I would take Simcraft with a grain of salt, for it keeps on telling me that the best 522 trinket this tier is the Valor one.
    But that's me.
    Last edited by Potentio; 2013-04-23 at 10:00 PM.

  2. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    I am still of the opinion that having such enormous amounts of haste not only affects your Incinerate DPS, but your overall DPS with it, especially considering how close our stats are to each other. Why go over the GCD if you can take the other route and add some other stats in your gear instead? Perhaps go for crit and mastery, which also affects Shadowburn as well as Conflagrate.

    And I would take Simcraft with a grain of salt, for it keeps on telling me that the best 522 trinket this tier is the Valor one.
    But that's me.
    I suppose I should clarify.

    I didn't mean that hitting the GCD cap with incinerate will cause a loss of dps than if you didn't have that haste that pushed you over the cap.

    What I meant was that that reduced DPS is less than if you were to reforge that haste into another stat.

  3. #1163
    I see. This I concur with.

  4. #1164
    The only stat that improves my demon is Haste? Or does Mastery and Crit affects them too? I'm currently using Fel Imp.

  5. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumaw View Post
    The only stat that improves my demon is Haste? Or does Mastery and Crit affects them too? I'm currently using Fel Imp.
    Haste improves (auto) attack speed (if it has one) and energy regen. (But since we are constricted by energy the attackspeed matters little)

    Crit improves pets crit chance. Mastery does nothing for pets.

    There's also hit chance, of course, but we keep that capped anyway.
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  6. #1166
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Haste improves (auto) attack speed (if it has one) and energy regen. (But since we are constricted by energy the attackspeed matters little)

    Crit improves pets crit chance. Mastery does nothing for pets.

    There's also hit chance, of course, but we keep that capped anyway.
    Thanks

    I´m currently trying out a crit build, still deciding wich one is better for me. all I know is I wanna play with a pet, in PvE at least.

  7. #1167
    Quick trinket question. I just got Cha Yes and have been using Lei Shen + Valor trinket. Simcraft is putting Lei Shen + Valor about 2k above Cha yes + Valor. I was under the impression that the LS trinket was kind of bad for Destro and Hydra/Cha Yes were better? This is all in LFR gear with Mastery > Haste > Crit reforging.

  8. #1168
    Two things.

    Ive been going crit>haste>mastery in our 25 mans lately and that has been working out fairly well. I am currently ilvl 512 with 2p, the wand off horridon, wush normal, and cha-ye normal. Would continuing this stat priority for an overall ToT raid be best?

    Also, is there a BiS list for destro locks floating around out there?

    Thank you very much for your time and responces.

  9. #1169
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaltur View Post
    Two things.

    Ive been going crit>haste>mastery in our 25 mans lately and that has been working out fairly well. I am currently ilvl 512 with 2p, the wand off horridon, wush normal, and cha-ye normal. Would continuing this stat priority for an overall ToT raid be best?

    Also, is there a BiS list for destro locks floating around out there?

    Thank you very much for your time and responces.
    Crit>Haste>Mastery should be fine if it's working for you, though there are several fights where you can get SO many embers that Crit is your weakest stat and Mastery is your best. That's kind of the pitfall of going Crit heavy right now.

    As for your second question, the short answer is, no. Our stat weights vary so much on a fight by fight basis and by playstyle that it's generally agreed upon that there is no BiS list. There was an extensive discussion (that got a little heated) earlier in the thread, so take my word for it, there's no full BiS list. There are optimal trinket combos though, not 100% sure what they are for Destro though, maybe Wush/Cha-Yes?

  10. #1170
    fairly sure that it is basically a cointoss between breath of the hydra and cha-ye trinket, wushoolay's final choice should be a given tho.

  11. #1171
    I dont have logs to post yet, but ever since i switched from affliction to destro, I've felt my dps reduction was not completely based on the nerf that happen at the same time. Destro is a pretty simple fight, and i cant quite see what the heck im doing wrong so im going to ask very simple general questions.
    I'm Sup/Observer, hit capped, Crit > haste > mastery geared. 516 ilvl. pretty much care only for single target with cleave dps.

    My typical goals in a fight:
    1) keep RoF going
    2) conflag when up, if more then 2 stacks of backdraft, dont CB until youve incined them away
    3) CB at 3.5 embers (or so).

    Now, I know that Havoc is a bonus in destros mix. For fights where we have a definate second target I have a macro that i try to use on cooldown, and for fights i dont have macroed, ill toss it in whenever i can, and the only fight that ive really gotten the hang of and have the opportunity to really exploit Shadowburnx3 is tortos because they always have easy targets (The dead shells) you can use to easily burn, whenever i try to finagle havoc on a boss, then go trying to find adds that have exactly the <20% i need to trigger SB, i feel like im wasting more time trying to make it work and losing dps in the process.

    I just got the 2 piece T15, so now that i can do 5 CB's under dark soul that should help but i still feel like im wasting dps somewhere. maybe keeping DS off cooldown too long, just so i can max my embers, or letting my embers max and stay full because DS is a few seconds away from being off cooldown has something to do with it. I just dont get some of the numbers im seeing on the log sites.

  12. #1172
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    Question about Horridon HM:
    Any benefits in using glyphed imp on pink dinosaur of love? Or w/o it?

  13. #1173
    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    I dont have logs to post yet, but ever since i switched from affliction to destro, I've felt my dps reduction was not completely based on the nerf that happen at the same time. Destro is a pretty simple fight, and i cant quite see what the heck im doing wrong so im going to ask very simple general questions.
    I'm Sup/Observer, hit capped, Crit > haste > mastery geared. 516 ilvl. pretty much care only for single target with cleave dps.

    My typical goals in a fight:
    1) keep RoF going
    2) conflag when up, if more then 2 stacks of backdraft, dont CB until youve incined them away
    3) CB at 3.5 embers (or so).

    Now, I know that Havoc is a bonus in destros mix. For fights where we have a definate second target I have a macro that i try to use on cooldown, and for fights i dont have macroed, ill toss it in whenever i can, and the only fight that ive really gotten the hang of and have the opportunity to really exploit Shadowburnx3 is tortos because they always have easy targets (The dead shells) you can use to easily burn, whenever i try to finagle havoc on a boss, then go trying to find adds that have exactly the <20% i need to trigger SB, i feel like im wasting more time trying to make it work and losing dps in the process.

    I just got the 2 piece T15, so now that i can do 5 CB's under dark soul that should help but i still feel like im wasting dps somewhere. maybe keeping DS off cooldown too long, just so i can max my embers, or letting my embers max and stay full because DS is a few seconds away from being off cooldown has something to do with it. I just dont get some of the numbers im seeing on the log sites.

    Something else I've seen posted in this forum is to use your embers on CB when you have a trinket/profession proc up as well. IE: CB with Lightweave embroidery up, or Wusholays trink proc. That helped me a bit as well. Also, you mentioned you SB on the dead shells, don't. When they are 'dead' they are immune to dmg. Try to squeeze in the SB when they are sub 20% but before they 'die' otherwise you're only get one SB off as opposed to the two, since shell would be immune.

    There are also a few more things that have been posted here such as refreshing Immo right before DS is going to wear off, haste procs effect RoF ember generation, etc. that have helped me as well. Im 506 ilvl and surpass our 517ilvl Sup lock on almost all fights. So while it seems you got the general gist of what to do, it's the little nuances that are going to help you out more I think.

    I tried going to Sup/Observer last night myself, C>H>M. And couldn't break 110k on Durumu. I've been GoSac up till now and after 3 hours of Sup last night Im going back to Sac. I gain 21% mastery and only lose 4.5% crit by going M>H>=C. And my dps is much better, closer to 120k, even though simcraft says Sup should be about 7k higher then Sac for me right now. But I know what works for me so I'll stick with it.

  14. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by LucianX View Post
    Something else I've seen posted in this forum is to use your embers on CB when you have a trinket/profession proc up as well. IE: CB with Lightweave embroidery up, or Wusholays trink proc. That helped me a bit as well.
    While i agree with CBing when you've procs up, Lightweave is probably a proc you may not want to waste embers on. I have Cha-Ye's and VP trink atm, but still manage to use almost all of my embers during DS and Cha-Ye's, which are much stronger procs than Lightweave

  15. #1175
    Unfortunately while my gear is mostly great, my trinkets suck. only the valor 522 trinket and an old 496 trinket (The haste one from sha of fear). Damn things rarely drop and i keep losing the roll vs our spriests and mage.

    Like you said, doing SBx3 on a live mob takes alot of luck, and i think i would lose dps picking and choosing vs just doing a dead shell. dead shells arent 'dead' so if i havoc tortos, then SB a dead shell, he gets the damage too. sure it would be nice not to waste the dps thats getting put on the shell but its 3 gauranteed SB hits on tortos with him >20%, so why would that be worse? as long as the shells are dying on time, i dont care about inflating my numbers.

    I think i need to try going to sac. im finding it hard to accept my pet is contributing enough. I've been looking at recount but my guild hasnt been submitting raid numbers for me to closely evaluate and compare. thinking about setting it up so i can do it myself. Any suggestions of good log sites?

  16. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    Unfortunately while my gear is mostly great, my trinkets suck. only the valor 522 trinket and an old 496 trinket (The haste one from sha of fear). Damn things rarely drop and i keep losing the roll vs our spriests and mage.

    Like you said, doing SBx3 on a live mob takes alot of luck, and i think i would lose dps picking and choosing vs just doing a dead shell. dead shells arent 'dead' so if i havoc tortos, then SB a dead shell, he gets the damage too. sure it would be nice not to waste the dps thats getting put on the shell but its 3 gauranteed SB hits on tortos with him >20%, so why would that be worse? as long as the shells are dying on time, i dont care about inflating my numbers.

    I think i need to try going to sac. im finding it hard to accept my pet is contributing enough. I've been looking at recount but my guild hasnt been submitting raid numbers for me to closely evaluate and compare. thinking about setting it up so i can do it myself. Any suggestions of good log sites?
    World of Logs is pretty much the defacto log site.

    As for your strat of Havocing to the boss from "dead" turtles, that's perfectly legit and I do it too if I can use a havoc cd on the boss without having to kill turtles.

  17. #1177
    Actually It turns out we have a few logs. This ones my dps from Megara 10N

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g.../?s=733&e=1218

    Some more on our recent raids. Missing this weeks data, ive had an upgrade or two since the above. Input greatly appriciated.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/1255/reports/

  18. #1178
    A question

    I know you should not use backdraft on Chaos Bolt, its waist of the haste buff since you won't really cast more chaos bolts and you won't really have the time to get back mana.

    But having said that with the tier 15 2 piece you can cast at least 5 chaos bolts during Dark Soul, is it worth using conflag to gain some embers and to cast chaos bolt a bit faster so you can get enough embers to get 1 more cast of? So the idea is to have a total of 6 buffed chaos bolts instead of the normal max 4.

    Of course you have to make sure you have both immolate and rain of fire up and their is some rmg involved since their is no guarantee you will get the embers

  19. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    A question

    I know you should not use backdraft on Chaos Bolt, its waist of the haste buff since you won't really cast more chaos bolts and you won't really have the time to get back mana.

    But having said that with the tier 15 2 piece you can cast at least 5 chaos bolts during Dark Soul, is it worth using conflag to gain some embers and to cast chaos bolt a bit faster so you can get enough embers to get 1 more cast of? So the idea is to have a total of 6 buffed chaos bolts instead of the normal max 4.

    Of course you have to make sure you have both immolate and rain of fire up and their is some rmg involved since their is no guarantee you will get the embers
    If using backdraft on a chaos bolt will let you either:
    a) Avoid capping on Embers, or
    b) get a Chaos Bolt out with procs up that it wouldn't otherwise have had
    Then it's worth it to do.

  20. #1180
    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    Actually It turns out we have a few logs. This ones my dps from Megara 10N

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g.../?s=733&e=1218

    Some more on our recent raids. Missing this weeks data, ive had an upgrade or two since the above. Input greatly appriciated.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/1255/reports/
    just watched a few logs of you

    turns out you do not like to use Rain of Fire, use it more ! megaera should be at least 80% uptime
    do not get ember capped (at your last jin'rokh fight you generated like 19 full embers, but only spent 17)
    try to keep immolate rolling on a lot of targets (council for example)
    havoc on cd if possible (5 havocs on horridon is a joke, and you should be able to deal at least 200k on this fight)

    less incinerate more chaos bolt in general!

    my advice for you:
    read the guide sektion on the first page
    it seems like you are playing destro like a faceroller, you should not. this is a Warlock not a DK^^

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