1. #1381
    The Patient Gorthan's Avatar
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    Another question about HC Horridon. Whend do you use DS? As soon as the dinomacer drops?

  2. #1382
    I was wondering if it's a dps gain to switch from Gosup (full haste) to GoSac and reforge/regem all haste into mastery to benefit much more from chaos bolts fired with Unherring Vision's proc.

  3. #1383
    Hi so I have the new meta gem and when it procs im at 0.9sec cast time with backdraft up on incin so haste is worse now then crit? (using gosup on nearly all fights only Ji-kun and primoridius) this happens also during bloodlust (but thats a pretty short time of the fight while the meta proc is active quite a lot)

    Will Sim this soon but maybe somebody already knows the answer? (I have 419 ilvl)


    edit: okay strange i get stat weights haste=mastery>crit with gosup with my current reforge which is more like crit>haste>>mastery think I have to optimize a lot (simmed for 148,7k)

    edit2: ok after reforging haste=mastery>crit I have same dps and now he tells me crit>haste>mastery so truth lays somewhere in between I guess ^^ (simmed for 148,9k)

    edit3: okay Im now at crit(6.9k )> haste(6.2k) > mastery (4k) and all stats are at same weight now when simming (all +-0.02) and dps increased by raging 300 (lol) reforging with gosup is pretty useless it seems (simmed for 149k)
    Last edited by Selaiah; 2013-05-10 at 12:32 PM.

  4. #1384
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    I was wondering if it's a dps gain to switch from Gosup (full haste) to GoSac and reforge/regem all haste into mastery to benefit much more from chaos bolts fired with Unherring Vision's proc.
    For single target no. You're gimping yourself at least 4-5k DPS by speccing sac with Mastery stacking, vs speccing a pet talent with Mastery stacking.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 08:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Selaiah View Post
    Hi so I have the new meta gem and when it procs im at 0.9sec cast time with backdraft up on incin so haste is worse now then crit? (using gosup on nearly all fights only Ji-kun and primoridius) this happens also during bloodlust (but thats a pretty short time of the fight while the meta proc is active quite a lot)

    Will Sim this soon but maybe somebody already knows the answer? (I have 419 ilvl)


    edit: okay strange i get stat weights haste=mastery>crit with gosup with my current reforge which is more like crit>haste>>mastery think I have to optimize a lot (simmed for 148,7k)

    edit2: ok after reforging haste=mastery>crit I have same dps and now he tells me crit>haste>mastery so truth lays somewhere in between I guess ^^ (simmed for 148,9k)

    edit3: okay Im now at crit(6.9k )> haste(6.2k) > mastery (4k) and all stats are at same weight now when simming (all +-0.02) and dps increased by raging 300 (lol) reforging with gosup is pretty useless it seems (simmed for 149k)
    I've finally been able to do some more hard theorycrafting last night, and while I'm not prepared to release it all yet (because it's still not fully done), I'm getting that haste/crit/mastery all scale linearly at all levels of stats. (Even up at 20k haste, haste is still better than Crit/Mastery for my personal character).

    Don't think that what I said above is saying you should do anything, just that preliminarilly those are my results.

  5. #1385
    Hello everyone, I am not sure exacly where to ask this but since Brusalk is prety active on the forums here and he has nice kill videos on most 10 man HC bosses in ToT(except Twins).

    So I wanted to ask which spec do you think is best for Twins HC 10 man? I am prety comfortable playing any of the 3, I am just wondering DPS wise and Ultility wise which do you think will be the best. I gues that it will depand alot on how we will manage the adds. I am gues that Destro passive AoE with 3-4 adds beeing ontop of the boss in ph1 wont be bad. Then agein if we deside to off tank the adds till we get a solod number of them and then AoE them down a doom ticking on few of them even more with Lei Shen's trinket will boost demo too. And ofc Affli which seems to be the choice for 25 man HC with strong single target DPS, and off good off target DPS and even room for Soul Swap DoT dance may end up beeing the best also.


    All that is just ph1 so I was wondering if anyone can point out and give some tips if one of the 3 specs is alot stronger then the rest for the fight or as I suspect that they are all prety close on that fight.

  6. #1386
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaav View Post
    Hello everyone, I am not sure exacly where to ask this but since Brusalk is prety active on the forums here and he has nice kill videos on most 10 man HC bosses in ToT(except Twins).

    So I wanted to ask which spec do you think is best for Twins HC 10 man? I am prety comfortable playing any of the 3, I am just wondering DPS wise and Ultility wise which do you think will be the best. I gues that it will depand alot on how we will manage the adds. I am gues that Destro passive AoE with 3-4 adds beeing ontop of the boss in ph1 wont be bad. Then agein if we deside to off tank the adds till we get a solod number of them and then AoE them down a doom ticking on few of them even more with Lei Shen's trinket will boost demo too. And ofc Affli which seems to be the choice for 25 man HC with strong single target DPS, and off good off target DPS and even room for Soul Swap DoT dance may end up beeing the best also.


    All that is just ph1 so I was wondering if anyone can point out and give some tips if one of the 3 specs is alot stronger then the rest for the fight or as I suspect that they are all prety close on that fight.
    I have a twins vid? Though if you're referring to my crap play then I see your point :P

  7. #1387
    Blademaster thegaultman's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I am a bit baffled atm and hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. Out of the 3 destro locks in my 25 man (armories linked below), I am consistently 20k dps behind them. Every sim that I run, I always do patchwork, Hecticaddcleave, patch 2 boss, and patch 4 boss, has me parsing 15-25k dps behind the other 2. I (epicfearz) spec mastery>haste>crit, courts is specing haste>mastery>crit, and mastrexploda is speccing crit>haste>mastery. We are all around the same ilvl, 519-524.

    Can anyone tell me why my sims and actual dps is so much lower? Even when I sim different stat weights none of my sims change a whole lot. Am I doing something completely wrong with my spec?

    Epicfearz - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fearz/advanced
    Courts - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourts/advanced
    Mastrexploda - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ploda/advanced

  8. #1388
    Quote Originally Posted by thegaultman View Post
    Hey guys, I am a bit baffled atm and hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. Out of the 3 destro locks in my 25 man (armories linked below), I am consistently 20k dps behind them. Every sim that I run, I always do patchwork, Hecticaddcleave, patch 2 boss, and patch 4 boss, has me parsing 15-25k dps behind the other 2. I (epicfearz) spec mastery>haste>crit, courts is specing haste>mastery>crit, and mastrexploda is speccing crit>haste>mastery. We are all around the same ilvl, 519-524.

    Can anyone tell me why my sims and actual dps is so much lower? Even when I sim different stat weights none of my sims change a whole lot. Am I doing something completely wrong with my spec?

    Epicfearz - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fearz/advanced
    Courts - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourts/advanced
    Mastrexploda - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ploda/advanced
    1) Using the mastery focused build on single target is marginally worse unless you can use temporary buffs to take more advantage of your ember consumers than might be normally expected i.e. pools on Jinrokh
    2) It might have something to do with you having a 502 weapon vs. them having 522 weapons even though the overall ilevels are the same.

  9. #1389
    1) Using the mastery focused build on single target is marginally worse unless you can use temporary buffs to take more advantage of your ember consumers than might be normally expected i.e. pools on Jinrokh
    And why is that? Since ember consumers make for a fair amount of my single target damage, mastery is pretty valuable. Depending on the fight, Chaos bolt is my top damage dealer, and you can tell why. With wushoolay and BoTH, a chaos bolt is worth 5 incinerate crits damage-wise, and since crit is RNG and raw damage isn't, I prefer mastery. I only raid normal content, so I am by no means a great destruction lock, but I've been ranking constantly with my destro mastery build, and when I don't rank, I am shy of a few percentages only(Damn those lazy trinkets that refuse to proc).

  10. #1390
    IMO, you should gem for int instead of mastery , with mastery reforges still its fine. Gemming mastery is only worth it for fights like horridon hc etc..

  11. #1391
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinitar View Post
    And why is that? Since ember consumers make for a fair amount of my single target damage, mastery is pretty valuable. Depending on the fight, Chaos bolt is my top damage dealer, and you can tell why. With wushoolay and BoTH, a chaos bolt is worth 5 incinerate crits damage-wise, and since crit is RNG and raw damage isn't, I prefer mastery. I only raid normal content, so I am by no means a great destruction lock, but I've been ranking constantly with my destro mastery build, and when I don't rank, I am shy of a few percentages only(Damn those lazy trinkets that refuse to proc).
    Just because ember consumers are a fair amount of your damage doesn't mean Mastery is somehow magically better than haste/crit for single target. You're assuming that mastery does exactly the same damage gain overall (or more) than Haste/Crit does for every damage source, which isn't true at all.

  12. #1392

    Optimizing stats for heroic progession with destro.. plz help! xD

    Hey man, just want to say first off thank you so much for the guide ive improved by about 20k dps consistent just rom following this....

    Now i had a question that i am desperate to find out as i am 12/12 1/13 H and have recently moved to frostmourne to push 13/13.... is this i am Stacking haste and then going mastery ten crit and using supremacy to boost dps with him via haste.... i have all my gems outside of maybe to of them haste and haste/hit and haste/int my haste breakpoint is 10021.... no i have seen your armory and a few othes and they have less haste and more straight int gems so the balance between mastery and haste is closer and then the intelect is higher... i was wondering if at ilvl 522 with 4 set regular ToT T15 i should be doing it the way you have with the pur ints > haste ems or the way i am.... i am applying to guilds to push 13/13 and wold like to be compleltey optimized for trials... so if you could let me know what u think that wol dbe great.

    Hope to hear rom you soon and again thanks for the guide! ^_^

    (Grats on 13/13 too!)

  13. #1393
    Just because ember consumers are a fair amount of your damage doesn't mean Mastery is somehow magically better than haste/crit for single target. You're assuming that mastery does exactly the same damage gain overall (or more) than Haste/Crit does for every damage source, which isn't true at all.
    Perhaps, but your guide doesn't really put emphasis on which stats work best for destro. As a general rule of thumbs, you have sup being Haste=Crit> mastery, and right below, a simulation of dps which puts some supremacy pets at mastery>haste=crit. This contradictory nature of the destro lock stats confused me in the first place, and I would really appreciate you clearing this up. There is a lot of talk about which destro secondary stats work the best, but no real proof to fortify these claims. For example, I saw some locks claiming that haste should not be priority once you get meta because your incinerates will drop below the 1 sec GCD and it becomes problematic. Some claim that crit is the best single target dps stat for supremacy single target, while other dump everything they have into mastery while keeping haste at a decent level.

    If you can clear up this confusion in your guide, I'm sure many locks will be grateful for it. Adding a new section that specifies which stat combination of nets the best results overall is sufficient.

  14. #1394
    I'm also having a problem of not knowing what stat to go to.
    The tutorial on this forum said, Mastery == Haste > Crit, so I tried to follow that rule.
    But today when I sim'ed, it gave me a stat priority of,
    Haste 2.20 > Mastery 1.99 > Crit 1.91.
    So I had to do a full reforge on my toon.
    (Int was 4.73, so I haven't changed my gemming from pure int.)

    I use Supremacy + Observer. ilvl is 501 and currently using 502 BoH and 502 Unerring.(I had the SPA trink, but replaced it with 502 BoH)

    I'm not a core raider or anything, but I do want to maximize my dps with the gear I currently have.
    So I'm really looking forward to your tutorial update too.

    And thx again for this helpful tutorial

  15. #1395
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menphis View Post
    I'm also having a problem of not knowing what stat to go to.
    The tutorial on this forum said, Mastery == Haste > Crit, so I tried to follow that rule.
    But today when I sim'ed, it gave me a stat priority of,
    Haste 2.20 > Mastery 1.99 > Crit 1.91.
    So I had to do a full reforge on my toon.
    (Int was 4.73, so I haven't changed my gemming from pure int.)

    I use Supremacy + Observer. ilvl is 501 and currently using 502 BoH and 502 Unerring.(I had the SPA trink, but replaced it with 502 BoH)

    I'm not a core raider or anything, but I do want to maximize my dps with the gear I currently have.
    So I'm really looking forward to your tutorial update too.

    And thx again for this helpful tutorial
    Please don't just enter the statweights into reforgelite (or whatever you use) and hit go. Proper reforging should be done using "reforge plots" in simcraft, it's been said here about a dozen times already. Simcraft gives you the current value of adding more of a certain stat RIGHT NOW, taking into account your current stats. Just because one stat comes out ahead does not necessarily mean you should reforge everything into said stat.

    Having said that however, there is not set reforge for ToT, depending on the fight (the amount of adds/specific damage buff/what you yourself have to do) means reforging can vary completely. If you're chaosbolting/shadowburning half the fight then reforge into more mastery, if its purely single target then grab some more haste at mastery's expense. This does not mean that haste becomes worthless on two targets if mastery becomes your highest weighted stat either.

    I'm just rambling now, but you need to learn what your stats do for you and then you can make your own judgement on what you need for a fight.

  16. #1396
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Please don't just enter the statweights into reforgelite (or whatever you use) and hit go. Proper reforging should be done using "reforge plots" in simcraft, it's been said here about a dozen times already. Simcraft gives you the current value of adding more of a certain stat RIGHT NOW, taking into account your current stats. Just because one stat comes out ahead does not necessarily mean you should reforge everything into said stat.
    Thats what I was actually doing =/ Of course I do set up, Globals/Buffs/Scaling and reforge, re-sim and if the stat weights change I reforge again.
    But I haven't looked at Reforge Plots. I'd have to learn how to use that.(I'm really bad at theory crafting btw. All that math etc..)

    Thanks for your advice =)

  17. #1397
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menphis View Post
    and if the stat weights change I reforge again.
    This is the bit I was saying is bad. Lets say your gear starts off with 3000 of each stat, and simcraft tells you that haste is weighted highest. If you reforge everything into haste so that you have 6000 haste but only 1500 of crit/mastery and sim again, it might tell you now that mastery is your highest stat.

    What this is telling you is that as it stands in this moment, you would gain more dps per point of mastery than per point of haste. What it is not telling you is that you should reforge EVERYTHING back into full mastery, as if you sim once more, you will find the stat weights have shifted again.

    Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread, there are just a lot of misconceptions about stat weights and reforging that people often fail to grasp.

  18. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    This is the bit I was saying is bad. Lets say your gear starts off with 3000 of each stat, and simcraft tells you that haste is weighted highest. If you reforge everything into haste so that you have 6000 haste but only 1500 of crit/mastery and sim again, it might tell you now that mastery is your highest stat.

    What this is telling you is that as it stands in this moment, you would gain more dps per point of mastery than per point of haste. What it is not telling you is that you should reforge EVERYTHING back into full mastery, as if you sim once more, you will find the stat weights have shifted again.

    Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread, there are just a lot of misconceptions about stat weights and reforging that people often fail to grasp.
    I'm not reforging everything in to a certain stat of course.
    I'm not doing it like, if the stat priority is Haste>Mastery>Crit for me, just reforge everything I have to haste or something.
    I'm not that dumb =P
    And I didn't say I was doing such a thing at all.

    I've re-simmed my toon again just to be sure, and the stat priority (ranking) hasn't changed btw.
    The numbers did change "slightly" and I mean very slightly (like 0.0x) that even if I input that in a reforge add-on, it tells me everything is reforged fine.
    (And yes, I remember reading in this thread that stat weights could change depending on the fight.
    If I choose HecticAddCleave, mastery beats haste by a lot. Although it gets confusing with so much different info and debating on this thread.)

    Anyways, I'm going to learn and use Reforge Plot feature in simcraft now.
    Thx again.
    Last edited by Menphis; 2013-05-11 at 11:47 PM.

  19. #1399
    Question about Destro.
    I recently started playing my lock again and it's been pretty fun, but lately I've been gearing him up to a decent extent And now I'm wondering about which reforge priority will be best. Infërno Mal'ganis is my lock. He's 514 ilvl and last night when I brought him to my mains cleanup tot run I didn't parse to well with the current reforge priority I used (mastery>haste>crit) I was pulling 118k for twin consorts and was kinda at the bottom of the list. Now understandably the other dpsers are a bit more geared (522+) but I don't think I'd be that far down. So I'm curious what's the stat priority for me right now that I should be using in general for tot along. Is it haste=mastery>crit? Or haste>crit>mastery?

    Kind of a side question. Last night after tot I changed to haste=mastery and I tried test dummying go sup obs and go sac and I dpsed the dummy up to 10m dmg each time and noticed that go sup did 91k Dps while go sac pulled like 94k, does this mean anything?

    For now I believe my rotation is correct but if you believe my rotation might be off just message me and I'll link a log or something since I can't post links here yet.

  20. #1400

    destruction and haste

    a optimal reforged mastery build as destruction. how low on haste is okay to not going to low on singeltarget but still keeping strong on aoe fights?

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