1. #1981
    Quote Originally Posted by Berthold View Post
    latest simcraft release fully supports 5.4 locks. Happy theorycrafting. If you find some bugs, let us know.
    Looks like mastery ~= crit > haste for typical setups (especially if you use RoF only for movement as it is only a measly upgrade for stand-still)
    So basically my going all in for crit is the right thing to do then?

  2. #1982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensenlol View Post
    So basically my going all in for crit is the right thing to do then?
    No, because even single target very marginally favours crit, on multi target fight mastery pulls much further ahead, so it isn't worth going pure crit.

  3. #1983
    As I understand it, Mastery and Crit are very close in value to start with, but Crit tapers off eventually and is worse than Mastery as soon as there's a second target anyhow. Haste is not a good stat and should be avoided.

  4. #1984
    I just went to the noxxic website and they say they have updated it for 5.4. They are recommending Mastery>=Haste>Crit and in their rotation, they still have RoF as part of the single target rotation. Also, they recommend KJC over AD. I know this is wrong but it is sad to see bad information out there and this is a site many people use.

    I have been playing destroy since 5.4 went live. I am finding that I am not often having periods when I do not have backdraft up to cast Incin. I have been seeing my FF hit for like 70-80K and my incin hit for 135-150K. So, even with out backdraft I am seeing 150K dmg for 1.6 sec cast time (w/o backdrafts 30% reduction) or 140-160K dmg for 2 GCD's which is 2 sec. So over a whole fight, wouldn't it be better to just to cast incinerate and only use FF for movement?

  5. #1985
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    So, even with out backdraft I am seeing 150K dmg for 1.6 sec cast time (w/o backdrafts 30% reduction) or 140-160K dmg for 2 GCD's which is 2 sec. So over a whole fight, wouldn't it be better to just to cast incinerate and only use FF for movement?
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  6. #1986
    Well, I did a whole lot better on last nights 10N raid. we finished the first wing. I'm getting use to the lack of moving while casting and If anything I'm sure my dps will improve because im still not quite timing my Dark soul as well as i could since im not use to having two charges on it but overall my dps was still at or near the top behind the rogue, which isnt as bad as i expected it to be. I know the scalling problem will probably be a problem later on but for now with 2 pieces of 561 gear and the rest at the 530 (and a few thunderforged pieces) ilvl mark (im down to my 2 piece bonus of T15), I'm doing pretty well. soul link is working better for me then sacrifice, shadowfury is amazingly helpful on Sha of pride for the reflections. need to work on my cleveing some more. the third boss invites alot of shadowburn abuse due to the number of adds, i just am not quick enough to take full advantage of it yet. Need to update my havok macros.

  7. #1987
    For T16H using fel flame as filler when backdraft is down gives basically the same dps as incinerate as the only filler. I will thus only use FF for movement
    Last edited by Berthold; 2013-09-12 at 03:26 PM.

  8. #1988
    Anyone in here have any experience on Galakras as destro?

    I was affliction in the tower group on Galakras, but we had some trouble in the ground group thanks to our healer dc'ing and our ele shamen needing to go resto - I remember reading that MF was pretty gimp for destro since it only affects ROF, is destro still any good at the mass AOE of Galakras adds, or would I be better off going with demo for it?

    Appreciate any advice.

  9. #1989
    I did Galakras last night as Destro and it was mad fun. I was in the ground group. 10 man

    RoFs reduced ember gen is noticeable here.
    I used AD and the AoE was still great. FnB hits hard.
    So many chances to Havoc snipe Shadowburns onto important adds.

    Pets seem to die a lot. I would up using GoSac.

  10. #1990
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    TL;DR: 5.3 -> 5.4 Changes

    Current Theorycrafting Results. Please note that this is subject to change in the very near future as I experiment more!

    These results are based off of what we can expect gear wise at the beginning of the tier. These aren't T16H results.

    Single Target:
    • RoF is still worth casting on one target under high-haste situations, such as Sinister Primal/Haste Procs + Hero.
    • Burning Primal is now better (slightly) than Sinister Primal
    • The optimal rotation involves only using Incinerate under Backdraft or Hero/Haste Procs. Fill with Fel Flame otherwise.
    • GoSup/Serv/Sac are all roughly even
    • Mastery >= Crit >> Haste. This is the best reforging setup I've found.
    • Specific pet values are incoming, but I have not finished these yet.
    These are still true even with the Incinerate buff. Fel Flame filler without Backdraft/haste procs is roughly 1k ahead in T15H gear.

    There's a lot of incorrect information floating around the past few pages, so I just wanted to clarify this.


    ALSO, as I included at the top of the guide, anything below the TL;DR: 5.3->5.4 changes section is current out of date!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    As I understand it, Mastery and Crit are very close in value to start with, but Crit tapers off eventually and is worse than Mastery as soon as there's a second target anyhow. Haste is not a good stat and should be avoided.
    This is correct. Crit and Mastery are essentially the same point-per-point. However, with 4pc T16 Crit will hit a point where it's devalued because you're bumping up against the ICD of the set bonus, and Mastery will pull ahead. Also note that Mastery is much more beneficial than crit the second you get a second target to interact with.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Berthold View Post
    latest simcraft release fully supports 5.4 locks. Happy theorycrafting. If you find some bugs, let us know.
    Looks like mastery ~= crit > haste for typical setups (especially if you use RoF only for movement as it is only a measly upgrade for stand-still)
    RoF for movement isn't worth it. It's only worth it for 2 targets and when you have so much Haste that your Incinerates are GCD capping.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Berthold View Post
    For T16H using fel flame as filler when backdraft is down gives basically the same dps as incinerate as the only filler. I will thus only use FF for movement
    Fel Flame is ahead with T15H gear, and I'm pretty sure you don't have full T16H gear on live yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    I did Galakras last night as Destro and it was mad fun. I was in the ground group. 10 man

    RoFs reduced ember gen is noticeable here.
    I used AD and the AoE was still great. FnB hits hard.
    So many chances to Havoc snipe Shadowburns onto important adds.

    Pets seem to die a lot. I would up using GoSac.
    Weird.. My pet didn't die once on that fight.

  11. #1991
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I've been in touch with Gahddo and AFAIK his testing has been showing the exact same things as I've found.

    I'm not familiar with what Icy Veins had before. What exactly are they stating stat wise?




    http://www.icy-veins.com/destruction...rity-reforging

    The stat priority for a Destruction Warlock is:

    1. Intellect;
    2. Hit Rating (until 15%);
    3. Haste Rating (single-target) or Mastery Rating (multiple-target);
    4. Mastery Rating (single-target) or Haste Rating (multiple-target);
    5. Critical Strike Rating.

    These statistics have been obtained by combining common sense, in-game testing, and simulations using Simulation Craft.

    If you are unsure what the optimal reforging strategy is for the above priority, you can Ask Mr. Robot for a personalised optimisation of your character's gear, by filling the form below.

  12. #1992

  13. #1993
    Yeah i disagree with that. I did the first two bosses with high haste, next two with high mastery/crit and I saw a huge difference in my dps. mastery is definately above haste. crit im not positive of. i had 16% haste 30% crit and 106% mastery raid buffed for the second day vs 32% haste 22% crit and about 75% mastery on the first day.

  14. #1994
    I'm a bit confused. According to AskMrRobot I should gem for pure crit .Is this an error or should I follow their advice?

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  15. #1995
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    Why would you ever follow what AskMrRobot says by default ?
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  16. #1996
    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I'm a bit confused. According to AskMrRobot I should gem for pure crit .Is this an error or should I follow their advice?
    I don't use askmrRobot and don't recommend pure crit gemming when intellect is the base stat. Intellect+crit yes but pure crit I would have to say no,though my results are a bit different from Brusalik's. I will still favor crit over mastery because I am getting better results on live with this build. Switched to affliction to see what all the buzz was about but didn't like playing shadow priest. Demo will be the way i am staying.

  17. #1997
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothmeduso View Post
    I don't use askmrRobot and don't recommend pure crit gemming when intellect is the base stat. Intellect+crit yes but pure crit I would have to say no,though my results are a bit different from Brusalik's. I will still favor crit over mastery because I am getting better results on live with this build. Switched to affliction to see what all the buzz was about but didn't like playing shadow priest. Demo will be the way i am staying.
    All righty! Thanks.

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  18. #1998
    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I'm a bit confused. According to AskMrRobot I should gem for pure crit .Is this an error or should I follow their advice?
    I wouldn't trust AMR.

    Crit and Mastery are point for point equivalent for single target, but Mastery pulls head the second you get any additional targets. Also, crit hits a soft-cap (or breakpoint if you prefer) where your ember generation with 4pc T16 is greater than the ICD on it (10 seconds).

    Smoothmeduso has been touting a crit-focused build for raiding for a few weeks now, but I haven't seen any indication in either my testing or his justifications, for why Crit is significantly better than Mastery. I'm not sure if it's an unclear explanation on his part, but his logic tends to fall apart and become circular when explaining his reasoning. I did specifically test a crit focused build, and I found it behind (1.5-2.5%) Mastery-focused for all Grims for single target. With more targets Mastery only pulls ahead.

  19. #1999
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I wouldn't trust AMR.

    Crit and Mastery are point for point equivalent for single target, but Mastery pulls head the second you get any additional targets. Also, crit hits a soft-cap (or breakpoint if you prefer) where your ember generation with 4pc T16 is greater than the ICD on it (10 seconds).

    Smoothmeduso has been touting a crit-focused build for raiding for a few weeks now, but I haven't seen any indication in either my testing or his justifications, for why Crit is significantly better than Mastery. I'm not sure if it's an unclear explanation on his part, but his logic tends to fall apart and become circular when explaining his reasoning. I did specifically test a crit focused build, and I found it behind (1.5-2.5%) Mastery-focused for all Grims for single target. With more targets Mastery only pulls ahead.
    Thank you for the answer. So Mastery is the way to go for my gearlevel? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dawah/advanced
    If you think I can figure that out myself easily, just point me to the right direction. I'm really trying to understand all this numbers, but I'm not really there yet so any help is appreciated.

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  20. #2000
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    A mastery heavy built is the best way to go for switching to the other speccs. With 10/14 down I gave destru a couple of tries but the only 2 fights I really really enjoyed being destruction were spoils of pandaria and galakras. especially spoils is just great for destruction, lot of short-living adds perfect for chaosbolt and shadowburn snipping. Went all other fights as demo and did quite well with UVLS normal. Crit doom uptime is ok, still rrpm but absolutely viable.
    Last edited by Maokk; 2013-09-12 at 09:24 PM.

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