1. #2541
    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredSausage View Post
    All this sim stuff is beyond me, ive come to the conclusion by reading this thread that everyone has diff ideas at whats best for destruction...including myself. Does anyone know whats best or not i wonder.
    Im At that point now where i have just about lost interest with destro..warlocks tbh, too much bullshit everytime a patch hits.
    People tend to blow things out of perspective, and most folks don't seem to realize the variance the theorycrafters are talking about.

    It just seems much less niche than it actually is, because there's very little point theorycrafting on anything but full BIS, because below that you're having to take so many different gear combos into consideration. But even at the full BIS level, we're talking maybe a few thousand dps difference between "optimal" reforging and proper talent choices, and suboptimal reforging/talents.

    In real terms, most of the differences fall within the realm of rng. You're simply never going to have circumstances you can replicate during actual raids. No one's latency will be exactly the same, no one's procs will be exactly the same, no one's reaction time will be exactly the same, etc, etc, etc ... and even if you could guarantee all those variables, how many times do you even kill a given boss in a given tier ? Maybe 30 times if you start early and stay late ?

    Of course folks who know what they're doing and are good at math and all that will be able to eke out more than most, but, yeah ... you see different perspectives because nearly every possible build is viable and several have strong niches. I'd say just give it a couple weeks after a given patch and you'll see the conversation distill down to a couple/few builds that work for the various situations you'll find in a given tier (I think we might be another week of gearing and mathing before the dust settles on this tier)

    Unless by too much bullshit you mean from the developers radically changing Warlocks so often through MoP. Yeah ... hope that roller coaster is over with MoP, but ... guess we'll see.

  2. #2542
    am confused about one thingh, for one peps now say its mastery>crit>haste, but what is the point when in siomming yourself? i simmed myself as gosac and got crit as highest,mastery second. if going by the first statment i should not go with my sim result?

  3. #2543
    High Overlord Gorthan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Why would you take mannoroths. Phase 1 is a joke so speccing into more add damage is just padding.

    I'm talking 10 man but there is quite a bit of movement from dodging desecrate, moving in and out of melee for mc and whirling corruption and moving from empowered whirling. I also deal with the engineer so theres that. A greater radius on mannoroths is wasted imo.
    Just to say you were right. KJC is very good.

  4. #2544
    Just so I'm clear (warlock newb here), shadowburn should ALWAYS be used if available, rather than CB, correct?

  5. #2545
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteadee View Post
    Just so I'm clear (warlock newb here), shadowburn should ALWAYS be used if available, rather than CB, correct?
    That is correct.

  6. #2546
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    What's the deal with the GoSac dot from chaos bolt and pandemic?

    I've been casting chaos bolt twice and then a filler spell in between as I was wary of munching the dot with 3xCB back to back. Am I wrong in my assumption that it can be munched?



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  7. #2547
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    What's the deal with the GoSac dot from chaos bolt and pandemic?

    I've been casting chaos bolt twice and then a filler spell in between as I was wary of munching the dot with 3xCB back to back. Am I wrong in my assumption that it can be munched?
    I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have never noticed losing a tick

  8. #2548
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Well I generally make a point of never casting 3 back to back, but depending on trinket procs it may have happened.

    Looking at my log from malkorok, I cast 18 chaos bolts but only saw 53 ticks of the dot, so was 1 tick short.

    I'll have a look at some other fights and go hit the dummy for a bit.

    Edit: My reasoning is that the dot normally ticks 3 times, if it is clipped it jumps up from 1 to 4 seconds. However if you cast a third chaos bolt which lands when the dot is at 2 seconds, it only jumps up to 4 seconds again and not 5.



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  9. #2549
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Well I generally make a point of never casting 3 back to back, but depending on trinket procs it may have happened.

    Looking at my log from malkorok, I cast 18 chaos bolts but only saw 53 ticks of the dot, so was 1 tick short.

    I'll have a look at some other fights and go hit the dummy for a bit.
    IIRC the dot is just added to itself, tick strength increases even if there's one less ticks.. you should lose nothing by spamming it.

  10. #2550
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    What's the deal with the GoSac dot from chaos bolt and pandemic?

    I've been casting chaos bolt twice and then a filler spell in between as I was wary of munching the dot with 3xCB back to back. Am I wrong in my assumption that it can be munched?
    I remember testing being done when the GoSac dot came out and the basic conclusion was that it could not be clipped and so it was perfectly fine to chain cast CBs. I believe the damage that hasn't ticked yet is just added to the new DoT (forget the exact mechanics and am at work so I cant test now).

  11. #2551
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Right I understand, thanks.



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  12. #2552
    So I simmed last night with my crappy gear (dont mind the weird reforge, was trying how it felt to forge to haste last night....iLvl 520, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...locknos/simple) and it keeps telling me Crit is WAY ahead of the other 2 stats if I am forged Mastery > Haste > Crit.

    I skipped 5.3 mostly, but was Crit dominant in at those iLvls, if not maybe i need to check whats up with my sims?

  13. #2553
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Well I generally make a point of never casting 3 back to back, but depending on trinket procs it may have happened.

    Looking at my log from malkorok, I cast 18 chaos bolts but only saw 53 ticks of the dot, so was 1 tick short.

    I'll have a look at some other fights and go hit the dummy for a bit.

    Edit: My reasoning is that the dot normally ticks 3 times, if it is clipped it jumps up from 1 to 4 seconds. However if you cast a third chaos bolt which lands when the dot is at 2 seconds, it only jumps up to 4 seconds again and not 5.
    You're right, there is an issue with one tick of the dot being clipped there. It could be a movement issue possibly, if you got gripped or somehow the boss moved? But you did 23,586,364 damage with the initial hits of Chaos Bolt. Therefore, all your ticks should have done 3,537,954, but you only did 3,421,902. That's 128k damage missing. The weirdest thing though is that its implausible for that much damage to be a single tick, as each tick is 5% CB damage so a single tick that hard would mean your CB hit for well over 2m, which isn't possible. I have no clue what's going on, but there is a small discrepancy here.

  14. #2554
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Ha my chaos bolts on the pull hit for over 2.5M so yes it is possible!



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  15. #2555
    Quote Originally Posted by traumabrew View Post
    Here is what I am getting from SimC. It puts mastery at the bottom. This is weird. Has anyone tried a high haste build in 5.4? If so, what was your results?


    Scale Factors for Skyaan Damage Per Second
    Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
    Scale Factors 0.00 0.00 0.00 3.83 4.54 3.49
    Normalized 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
    Scale Deltas 1000 1000 -1000 1000 1000 1000
    Error 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.18 0.18 0.18
    Gear Ranking
    Here's my high haste sim result simmed at 291368 dps
    (over 10437 haste for 9 tick break point under meta/hero with default 5.4-4 profile)

    Scale Factors for Terrornova Damage Per Second
    Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
    Scale Factors 7.61 6.00 0.00 4.15 4.37 4.38
    Normalized 1.00 0.79 0.00 0.55 0.57 0.57
    Scale Deltas 1000 1000 -1000 1000 1000 1000
    Error 0.24 0.24 0.00 0.24 0.24 0.24
    Gear Ranking wowheadwowhead (caps merged)lootrankwowupgrade
    Optimizers wowreforgeaskmrrobot
    Ranking Int > SP > Mastery ~= Haste ~= Crit
    Pawn string
    ( Pawn: v1: "Terrornova": Intellect=7.61, SpellDamage=6.00, CritRating=4.15, HasteRating=4.37, MasteryRating=4.38 )
    Zero hit/exp
    ( Pawn: v1: "Terrornova": Intellect=7.61, SpellDamage=6.00, CritRating=4.15, HasteRating=4.37, MasteryRating=4.38 )

  16. #2556
    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredSausage View Post
    All this sim stuff is beyond me, ive come to the conclusion by reading this thread that everyone has diff ideas at whats best for destruction...including myself. Does anyone know whats best or not i wonder.
    Im At that point now where i have just about lost interest with destro..warlocks tbh, too much bullshit everytime a patch hits.
    At some stage what suits oneself should take precedent. Personally I like bringing 2 viable specs (destro, aff), but I don't want to regem or reforge before every fight as I'm not at the cutting edge of progression. Therefore I go with the fabled 9778 haste>mastery which allows me to perform well with both. Is it the ultimate, dot over the i, master of the universe setup? No, but with decent gear I dare sa you can compete on more fights in SoO than any other class between the specs.

  17. #2557
    Blademaster thegaultman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by traumabrew View Post
    Here is what I am getting from SimC. It puts mastery at the bottom. This is weird. Has anyone tried a high haste build in 5.4? If so, what was your results?


    Scale Factors for Skyaan Damage Per Second
    Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
    Scale Factors 0.00 0.00 0.00 3.83 4.54 3.49
    Normalized 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
    Scale Deltas 1000 1000 -1000 1000 1000 1000
    Error 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.18 0.18 0.18
    Gear Ranking
    I'm going to try a high haste build for tonight's raid. My sims put a soft cap on haste at 13050, for my gear. At this point, h~=m~=c with haste dropping fast and crit quickly taking the lead.

    Planning to go up to the 13157 agony break point for an affliction swap if I want at a cost of about 200 dps. This leaves me with 12065 mastery and 4091 crit, simmming at 260k dps at 552 ilvl.

  18. #2558
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    The weirdest thing though is that its implausible for that much damage to be a single tick, as each tick is 5% CB damage so a single tick that hard would mean your CB hit for well over 2m, which isn't possible.
    I was doing more than that in my ToT gear, now 3M must be easily doable with the SoO gear / Immerseus trinket.
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  19. #2559
    9-10 BBoY normal, LFR Immerseus trinket (><) and 560~ ilvl I'm getting around 2.7 mil Chaos Bolts so yeah, with everything up I'm sure 3 mil is possible, especialy once Immerseus HC decides to drop the trinket. :P

  20. #2560
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Just wanted to let you all know that I have some time this afternoon and I'm going to be doing some hardcore theorycrafting to figure everything out.
    Hoping these results are posted tonight. I'm using the mastery>crit>haste build and doing just fine but if there's some other way to get more that'd be great.

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