1. #2721
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Right now I'm trying to balance Crit & Haste instead of favoring either of them. Then again, so far H bosses have only dropped an endless stream of Haste gear so I'm reforging all available Haste to Crit.

    On Dark Shamans HC: we run the 3/3/4 tactic, with a Hunter/Ele/Fire Mage and me as DPS. I try to time 2-3 conflags on the slimes, but in all effect they die before I can cast an Incinerate at them. I did some tries yesterday with only bothering to FnB conflag and then snipe (Havoc'd) Shadowburns on the boss. Is there a better way to deal with them from my PoV?

  2. #2722
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    On Dark Shamans HC: we run the 3/3/4 tactic, with a Hunter/Ele/Fire Mage and me as DPS. I try to time 2-3 conflags on the slimes, but in all effect they die before I can cast an Incinerate at them. I did some tries yesterday with only bothering to FnB conflag and then snipe (Havoc'd) Shadowburns on the boss. Is there a better way to deal with them from my PoV?
    Not really, if any group has a decent ele on that fight it's almost impossible to get decent damage from the adds.

  3. #2723
    Nuking the slimes is padding anyway. Our group had to agree on just spreading dots/put up small AoE and just finish them off if they were up for a long time and started getting near people. Basically all I did as Destro on our first kill was spec MF, put up RoF and try save at least one Conflagrate to FnB a big group of slimes. This gives a lot of embers back which you can invest into the boss(es).

  4. #2724
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplexity View Post
    Random question if anyone knows - can you RoF the Crawler Mines on Iron J for embers?
    You can havoc and incinerate them for embers though.



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  5. #2725
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Nuking the slimes is padding anyway. Our group had to agree on just spreading dots/put up small AoE and just finish them off if they were up for a long time and started getting near people. Basically all I did as Destro on our first kill was spec MF, put up RoF and try save at least one Conflagrate to FnB a big group of slimes. This gives a lot of embers back which you can invest into the boss(es).
    It's not padding. They need to die, and it's not like the enrage timer is super tight.

  6. #2726
    Quote Originally Posted by EvreliaGaming View Post
    It's not padding. They need to die, and it's not like the enrage timer is super tight.
    If you sacrifice single target damage to kill slimes that go down eventually anyway it's padding. And the faster you kill a boss like DS the better since it's extremely messy when the room is filled up with shit towards the end.

  7. #2727
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    If you sacrifice single target damage to kill slimes that go down eventually anyway it's padding. And the faster you kill a boss like DS the better since it's extremely messy when the room is filled up with shit towards the end.
    evrelia is right tho, it isnt padding if it needs to die anyway but it also depends on what your setup is, if you have a lot of good aoe specs, then you might be better of just dpsing the boss.

  8. #2728
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    evrelia is right tho, it isnt padding if it needs to die anyway but it also depends on what your setup is, if you have a lot of good aoe specs, then you might be better of just dpsing the boss.
    Why ever focus anything that has low prio and will go down eventually with (almost) passive damage is something I will never agree with. It's just like bats on Tortos, really. They just need to die before the next set spawns.

  9. #2729
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Because of convenience? Getting them down asap removes a factor from the fight, at that specific point in time. Why leave them up when they can be cleared so quickly? There's no cost to swapping to the adds, except the opportunity cost of DPSing the boss. There is no tight enrage timer, so there's literally no actual benefit to leaving them up and passively cleaving them down. Keep the fight as simple as possible.

    I'd rather just get rid of them asap so no tank/melee/anyone has to worry about them anymore. Regardless, they die within a few seconds anyway with our Ele Shaman.

  10. #2730
    Stood in the Fire ZaneBusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Why ever focus anything that has low prio and will go down eventually with (almost) passive damage is something I will never agree with. It's just like bats on Tortos, really. They just need to die before the next set spawns.
    Well, I haven't done, or watched H Shamans yet (starting progression on them this weekend), so I can't say this with certainty, but on Normal the adds HURT. BIGTIME. Leaving them alive for more than 10 seconds in Normal usually ends in someone in my raid group dying, (or coming very close to), from the insane amount of damage the slimes deal. I would only imagine it would be WORSE in Heroic, unless there's a whole lot of kiting or something that I'm not aware of yet.

    But your interpretation of "padding" is incorrect anyway. Padding = dealing useless, unnecessary damage to extra targets, that brings no benefit to the raid as a whole, in an attempt to boost your overall DPS. Trying to argue that damage on slimes is unnecessary, useless, or brings no benefit to the raid, is EXTREMELY misleading. Padding is what you do on Megaera. Or Paragons. Where the damage literally provides no benefit to the raid as a whole.


    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    You can havoc and incinerate them for embers though.
    Really? I thought they were immune to all spells (i.e. you wouldn't even be able to APPLY Havoc to them in the first place). Not just immune to damage. And Incinerate still gives embers on immune mobs? That seems kinda broken lol.

    Edit: Derp. You meant Havoc the boss and Incinerate the adds? Either way, didn't know Incinerate gave embers from hitting immune mobs. Will need to test this out lol.
    Last edited by ZaneBusby; 2013-10-17 at 12:44 PM.

  11. #2731
    Quote Originally Posted by ZaneBusby View Post
    Well, I haven't done, or watched H Shamans yet (starting progression on them this weekend), so I can't say this with certainty, but on Normal the adds HURT. BIGTIME. Leaving them alive for more than 10 seconds in Normal usually ends in someone in my raid group dying, (or coming very close to), from the insane amount of damage the slimes deal. I would only imagine it would be WORSE in Heroic, unless there's a whole lot of kiting or something that I'm not aware of yet.

    But your interpretation of "padding" is incorrect anyway. Padding = dealing useless, unnecessary damage to extra targets, that brings no benefit to the raid as a whole, in an attempt to boost your overall DPS. Trying to argue that damage on slimes is unnecessary, useless, or brings no benefit to the raid, is EXTREMELY
    Just slow the adds lol. There's plenty AoE slows that can be used and requires little effort. Monk/DK tank can do it easily because they should aggro them anyway.

    Go ahead and keep nuking them adds if you want to. I just know that when we stopped tunneling adds whenever they spawned and focused on the boss it made the encounter much easier for us. We only started nuking them down fast whenever our tank ended up with little space to move.

  12. #2732
    Quote Originally Posted by ZaneBusby View Post
    Well, I haven't done, or watched H Shamans yet (starting progression on them this weekend), so I can't say this with certainty, but on Normal the adds HURT. BIGTIME. Leaving them alive for more than 10 seconds in Normal usually ends in someone in my raid group dying, (or coming very close to), from the insane amount of damage the slimes deal. I would only imagine it would be WORSE in Heroic, unless there's a whole lot of kiting or something that I'm not aware of yet.

    But your interpretation of "padding" is incorrect anyway. Padding = dealing useless, unnecessary damage to extra targets, that brings no benefit to the raid as a whole, in an attempt to boost your overall DPS. Trying to argue that damage on slimes is unnecessary, useless, or brings no benefit to the raid, is EXTREMELY misleading. Padding is what you do on Megaera. Or Paragons. Where the damage literally provides no benefit to the raid as a whole.




    Really? I thought they were immune to all spells (i.e. you wouldn't even be able to APPLY Havoc to them in the first place). Not just immune to damage. And Incinerate still gives embers on immune mobs? That seems kinda broken lol.

    Edit: Derp. You meant Havoc the boss and Incinerate the adds? Either way, didn't know Incinerate gave embers from hitting immune mobs. Will need to test this out lol.
    On heroic, you should be slowing the adds as Bonkura said with FnB Confla, RoF for le embers, and a few ince and their dead. He casts them at the location of the tank, so the tank just gotta be smart about moving, gather them up and nuke them -> dead adds. I was Aff for our first kill as we had a hunter/destro lock for the AoE which was plenty, but I am gonna be Destro for our next kill.

    As said RoF, FnB Confla -> Few ince (if your group is low on aoe) and then they should be dead.
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  13. #2733
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    Really? I thought they were immune to all spells (i.e. you wouldn't even be able to APPLY Havoc to them in the first place). Not just immune to damage. And Incinerate still gives embers on immune mobs? That seems kinda broken lol.

    Edit: Derp. You meant Havoc the boss and Incinerate the adds? Either way, didn't know Incinerate gave embers from hitting immune mobs. Will need to test this out lol.
    You get an emberbit by casting the Incinerate, you just will never get a second emberbit from a critical hit since it's not even calculated on an Immune mob (I guess).
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  14. #2734
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaneBusby View Post

    Really? I thought they were immune to all spells (i.e. you wouldn't even be able to APPLY Havoc to them in the first place). Not just immune to damage. And Incinerate still gives embers on immune mobs? That seems kinda broken lol.

    Edit: Derp. You meant Havoc the boss and Incinerate the adds? Either way, didn't know Incinerate gave embers from hitting immune mobs. Will need to test this out lol.
    No you can havoc them, the incinerates don't do any damage but I was definitely firing off two at a time. Incinerate grants an emberbit as it leaves your hand so you get an extra 3 every 30 seconds. Decent.

    Edit: Zumzum beat me to it.



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  15. #2735
    Stood in the Fire ZaneBusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    You get an emberbit by casting the Incinerate, you just will never get a second emberbit from a critical hit since it's not even calculated on an Immune mob (I guess).
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    No you can havoc them, the incinerates don't do any damage but I was definitely firing off two at a time. Incinerate grants an emberbit as it leaves your hand so you get an extra 3 every 30 seconds. Decent.

    Edit: Zumzum beat me to it.
    Well, the more you know. Had no idea lol. I always thought you gained emberbits when your spells hit the target, not upon leaving your hand. Although it definitely feels like that's the case when I'm AoEing and pumping out FnB Incinerates... Ember goes down then takes ~1 second to fill back up, once all the Incinerates reach their targets... Something related to FnB? Or server latency similar to registering mobs sub 20% HP for Shadowburn? What's the deal here? Lol.

  16. #2736
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaneBusby View Post
    Well, the more you know. Had no idea lol. I always thought you gained emberbits when your spells hit the target, not upon leaving your hand. Although it definitely feels like that's the case when I'm AoEing and pumping out FnB Incinerates... Ember goes down then takes ~1 second to fill back up, once all the Incinerates reach their targets... Something related to FnB? Or server latency similar to registering mobs sub 20% HP for Shadowburn? What's the deal here? Lol.
    I think with FnB it just feels that way because a whole ember is being consumed every time you fire it off. I just did a FnB on a dummy with 1 full ember (which gets consumed) and as soon as it left my hand I had 3 emberbits. Second time I did it I had 2. I think the 15% chance for Incinerate to grant an additional emberbit is baked into when it leaves your hand. Only the crit portion is calculated upon striking the target.

    I'll test it some more but on two dummies I'm getting 2 emberbits as soon as the FnB Incinerate leaves my hand.

    Edit: Can also confirm the 15% chance to grant an additional emberbit is granted once the cast finishes, so even greater reward for havocing immune stuff on single target fights!
    Last edited by Liquidsteel; 2013-10-17 at 01:27 PM.



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  17. #2737
    Stood in the Fire ZaneBusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    I think with FnB it just feels that way because a whole ember is being consumed every time you fire it off. I just did a FnB on a dummy with 1 full ember (which gets consumed) and as soon as it left my hand I had 3 emberbits. Second time I did it I had 2. I think the 15% chance for Incinerate to grant an additional emberbit is baked into when it leaves your hand. Only the crit portion is calculated upon striking the target.

    I'll test it some more but on two dummies I'm getting 2 emberbits as soon as the FnB Incinerate leaves my hand.

    Edit: Can also confirm the 15% chance to grant an additional emberbit is granted once the cast finishes, so even greater reward for havocing immune stuff on single target fights!
    Hmm. Interesting to note. I guess it just feels that way to me and it's my mind playing tricks on me. My bad. But good to know about Incinerate embers from immune mobs, now I can pad a little bit on H Iron Juggernaut this week.

  18. #2738
    Quote Originally Posted by ZaneBusby View Post
    No. Immune mobs don't generate embers anymore. Was hotfixed pretty early in 5.2, when people were RoF'ing the immune turtles on Tortos for the extra embers.


    On a side-note: Sparkuggz finally released his Destro guide. He's saying Mastery > Crit > Haste for single target, and Mastery > Haste > Crit for AoE. Saying that unless you want to reforge on a fight by fight basis, go for Mastery > Crit = Haste, and balance your crit and haste somewhat evenly.

    He also says that the Legendary Meta is equal or better than the Burning Meta if you play heavy crit with GoSac, or on AoE fights.

    Any thoughts Brusalk?

    Hm, wasn't there a blue post on October 3rd that said that FnB wouldnt have it's damage reduced by GoSac?

  19. #2739
    Quote Originally Posted by Greywardenn View Post
    Hm, wasn't there a blue post on October 3rd that said that FnB wouldnt have it's damage reduced by GoSac?
    Are you referring to " GoSac pulls ahead in BIS gear on single target, while if you AoE a lot GoSup will win because Sacrifice doesn’t increase damage dealt by Fire and Brimstone spells." from the guide? It's not decreased anymore, but it's not increased, either. This discounts shadowburns, though.

  20. #2740
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    Are you referring to " GoSac pulls ahead in BIS gear on single target, while if you AoE a lot GoSup will win because Sacrifice doesn’t increase damage dealt by Fire and Brimstone spells." from the guide? It's not decreased anymore, but it's not increased, either. This discounts shadowburns, though.
    Which is wrong and should be corrected because we get an even higher % from CB/SB on AoE fights like Galakras and Spoils making GoSac even more superior.

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