1. #3101
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    I ran your profile and the reason why it's better it's because with 1k more haste you reach a breakpoint and haste/crit scales better with supremacy. This is talking purely from single target light movement fights (malkorok).

    But they're close and honestly breakpoints as destro is overrated by simcraft a bit.
    Ah, ok I see now. So should I switch over to using GrimSac at this point then? And maybe have Simcraft calculate for patchwerk fights?
    Sorry just trying to learn... but I really appreciate the help.

  2. #3102
    Quote Originally Posted by Guineverie View Post
    Ah, ok I see now. So should I switch over to using GrimSac at this point then? And maybe have Simcraft calculate for patchwerk fights?
    Sorry just trying to learn... but I really appreciate the help.
    I think the stat weights from your ilvl are right, haste pulling ahead is just how simcraft see things on perfect mode. For single target haste is a valuable stat but whenever aoe comes into mind, mastery benefits more (as destro). I'll try switching for an AoE scenario (galakras) or 3 target cleave (midway Norushen) to confirm.

    About grimoiries, from my perspective, keep using GoSup on Imerseus, protectors (afflic is better anw), sha (adds die fast in normal mode), Malkorok, Thok (imp for AoE dispell), Nazgrim (pets don't give rage), etc.

    EDIT: I told you all that considering 3 things:

    First; your progression, you're going through normal mode.
    Second; your composition. Strategy tends to change a lot. Iron Jugernaut I went GoSac with SacPact for bombs.
    Third; considering the fights on orgrimar, they're almost all add fights, and the better you use chaos bolts and shadowburn, the more impact GoSac will have.

    I ran your profile again in cleave fights and AoE fights and mastery is the way to go, I'd not change anything (number wise, might consider chaging gems to expertise) considering your offspec is demon.
    Last edited by evertonbelmontt; 2013-11-23 at 04:27 AM.

  3. #3103
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    It depends what the approach/goal is I guess. Two Chaos Bolts with the first 10s trinket proc or not waste Backdraft stacks? What's optimal I have no idea but my point is still the same and I personally hate wasting Backdraft stacks with LMG up.
    Wasted Backdraft gives you what, extra Incinerate over whole fight? Chaos Bolt leaving after both trinkets just runs out is easily 1-1,5mln+ damage less from second CB. You obviously don't want either situation, but I think preferring getting that 2 CBs is more important.

  4. #3104
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Lonely Mountain
    Posts
    508
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Wasted Backdraft gives you what, extra Incinerate over whole fight? Chaos Bolt leaving after both trinkets just runs out is easily 1-1,5mln+ damage less from second CB. You obviously don't want either situation, but I think preferring getting that 2 CBs is more important.
    It's not "wasting" backdraft if it's a dps increase. If that's what you need to do to get your chaos bolts off in that particular case it would be ridiculous to miss your window because you were more concerned about incinerates.
    <Duality> Zul'jin 7/7 Mythic

    Furty
    | Ciri | Badwolf | Furtysmage

    Twitter | Twitch - Streaming Challenge Modes, Mythic Raids, and more!

  5. #3105
    Quote Originally Posted by tremenda View Post
    i consider myself a decent warlock , i can i can outdps on most fights classes whoom are simming better than me but when i see like 2 months passed and im stuck on 2set and other raid members coining bis items coin after coin just makes me feel like i want to facedesk my pc.
    interesting what classes "sim" better than locks?

    by picking a talent tree you are already apt to be better than the majority of other classes/specs
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  6. #3106
    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    interesting what classes "sim" better than locks?

    by picking a talent tree you are already apt to be better than the majority of other classes/specs
    Basically every spec in game but 3 sim better than Locks.

    Just Sayin'

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Wasted Backdraft gives you what, extra Incinerate over whole fight? Chaos Bolt leaving after both trinkets just runs out is easily 1-1,5mln+ damage less from second CB. You obviously don't want either situation, but I think preferring getting that 2 CBs is more important.
    I'd have to agree with Nivrax on this particular point, assuming that by not using the Backdraft you wouldn't have gotten out the Chaos Bolt with procs.

  7. #3107
    Quote Originally Posted by Furtylol View Post
    It's not "wasting" backdraft if it's a dps increase. If that's what you need to do to get your chaos bolts off in that particular case it would be ridiculous to miss your window because you were more concerned about incinerates.
    You're really good at stating the obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I'd have to agree with Nivrax on this particular point, assuming that by not using the Backdraft you wouldn't have gotten out the Chaos Bolt with procs.
    Well, how often are you gonna be able to cast 2 CB's during the first 10s proc anyway? I think you need to crit everything for that to happen. If we're talking about a 20s time frame and maximizing CB's during DS/Bindings I'm confident in my method of doing just one conflag and hold the second one until needed. Which means until out of Backdraft stacks and LMG is not up or we're reaching a 2nd charge of Conflagrate again.


    I can't believe I'm arguing over something silly as an opener, though. It's just surprising to me that people care so little about Backdraft as a whole.

  8. #3108
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    1,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    You're really good at stating the obvious.


    Well, how often are you gonna be able to cast 2 CB's during the first 10s proc anyway? I think you need to crit everything for that to happen. If we're talking about a 20s time frame and maximizing CB's during DS/Bindings I'm confident in my method of doing just one conflag and hold the second one until needed. Which means until out of Backdraft stacks and LMG is not up or we're reaching a 2nd charge of Conflagrate again.


    I can't believe I'm arguing over something silly as an opener, though. It's just surprising to me that people care so little about Backdraft as a whole.
    With a non bloodlusted pull, doing incinerate -> dark soul -> immolate (boss is pulled) followed by 2 conflags and 3 incinerates, I always manage to get off 2 chaos bolts before Toxic Power and 4 piece fall off. Throw in a bloodlust (or even just if you run M > H > C) and you can refresh immolate with everything up too which I think is decent.

    I don't think people don't care about backdraft, it's just that in a situation where you have such short procs (KTT/BBoY) you really want to squeeze out that second chaos bolt before it falls off. Now if my KTT didn't proc until 5 seconds in or so then I'd throw out a 4th incinerate.
    Last edited by Liquidsteel; 2013-11-24 at 12:19 AM.

  9. #3109
    I usually just hit buttons until bigger numbers show up.

  10. #3110
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Lonely Mountain
    Posts
    508
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    You're really good at stating the obvious.
    If it's so obvious I'm not sure what you're even debating.
    <Duality> Zul'jin 7/7 Mythic

    Furty
    | Ciri | Badwolf | Furtysmage

    Twitter | Twitch - Streaming Challenge Modes, Mythic Raids, and more!

  11. #3111
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    I think the stat weights from your ilvl are right, haste pulling ahead is just how simcraft see things on perfect mode. For single target haste is a valuable stat but whenever aoe comes into mind, mastery benefits more (as destro). I'll try switching for an AoE scenario (galakras) or 3 target cleave (midway Norushen) to confirm.

    About grimoiries, from my perspective, keep using GoSup on Imerseus, protectors (afflic is better anw), sha (adds die fast in normal mode), Malkorok, Thok (imp for AoE dispell), Nazgrim (pets don't give rage), etc.

    EDIT: I told you all that considering 3 things:

    First; your progression, you're going through normal mode.
    Second; your composition. Strategy tends to change a lot. Iron Jugernaut I went GoSac with SacPact for bombs.
    Third; considering the fights on orgrimar, they're almost all add fights, and the better you use chaos bolts and shadowburn, the more impact GoSac will have.

    I ran your profile again in cleave fights and AoE fights and mastery is the way to go, I'd not change anything (number wise, might consider chaging gems to expertise) considering your offspec is demon.
    Thanks so much for all your help brought a lot of things to light that I was really unsure of. Makes a lot of sense what you said, glad to know I'm on the right track.

  12. #3112
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    I usually just hit buttons until bigger numbers show up.
    To be honest, so many people try and min max every minor detail to beyond their skill cap, they end up lowering their dps than if they were to just keep it simple.

  13. #3113
    Mechagnome Crisius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    556
    I've found the best results (as troll) with: Pre-cast incinerate & immolate, 1 conflag, 1 rain of fire, 1-2 incinerates and 2 chaos bolts. Both CB's hit in the 10 sec window of toxic power, and in times with multiple targets (Paragons as an example) you could just replace one incinerate with an additional conflag and cast 3 CB's before toxic power falls off.

    /edit: And also in the 4-set window.
    Last edited by Crisius; 2013-11-24 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #3114
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    You're really good at stating the obvious.


    Well, how often are you gonna be able to cast 2 CB's during the first 10s proc anyway?
    With LMG and approx 7.5k haste its easy to get the second one out. With Bloodlust it's not even close.

  15. #3115
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Dubai, Shiraz or Under The Trees of Mulgore
    Posts
    584
    How accurate are Simc results for destro? I noticed that I am supposed to beat our second highest simmed raid member by 12k in pure ST fights, but Usually it is a really close call, I also am the only player in the guild playing at 300+ ms.

  16. #3116
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    1,245
    Destruction definitely sims closest out of the three specs, just remember that a patchwerk sim never has to deal with mechanics whilst trying to fire off that mega chaos bolt.

  17. #3117
    Quote Originally Posted by EvreliaGaming View Post
    With LMG and approx 7.5k haste its easy to get the second one out. With Bloodlust it's not even close.
    idd, most of the time by far you can get that 2 CBs off during those 10 sec intervals with procs and that is with 5,3k haste, ofc it will be tight at times, but luck with procs(bindings proccing first and then after a couple of secs, ktt proc which happens quite often too) makes it quite easy, with bloodlust you can very often get both CBs off AND get an immolate with dark soul and(in my situation) bindings and KTT proc up on the target for a nice boost to my ember generation.

  18. #3118
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    1,245
    Starting garrosh next reset, any tips for how to deal with p1?

    Is it important to burn down the adds asap or would it be better for progression to only use them for embers and focus on the boss?

  19. #3119
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Starting garrosh next reset, any tips for how to deal with p1?

    Is it important to burn down the adds asap or would it be better for progression to only use them for embers and focus on the boss?
    Well the adds do need to be at at least 50% before the iron star's come so they die from the iron star... but no need to dps them more than that on progression really if you wanted to be super strict about it... another way to look at it is the quicker they get to 20%, the quicker you can havoc shadowburn them Also the quicker they die the less chance of someone being randomly gibbed by an add.

    We had a rule on progress where " only aoe if the end result is the same single target dps as if you hadnt aoe'd ( or very close) or if you would even gain a single target dps increase. On 1 night we even had 4 destro warlocks so the rule was that as soon as they got to 40% everyone else stopped aoe'ing so that the warlocks could easily shadowburn using all 6 charges .

    On farm it is pretty much a fact that everyone goes full crazy aoe mode and the first wave of mobs are dead in like 5 seconds
    www.twitch.tv/xchrispottertvx
    We ( Rapid Eye Movement) sell a variety of boosts. Private message me for more info.
    We are recruiting any exceptional players who want to play at a top level!
    Rapid Eye Movement World 15th 25 man Guild. - www.remgaming.com

  20. #3120
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    Well the adds do need to be at at least 50% before the iron star's come so they die from the iron star... but no need to dps them more than that on progression really if you wanted to be super strict about it... another way to look at it is the quicker they get to 20%, the quicker you can havoc shadowburn them Also the quicker they die the less chance of someone being randomly gibbed by an add.

    We had a rule on progress where " only aoe if the end result is the same single target dps as if you hadnt aoe'd ( or very close) or if you would even gain a single target dps increase. On 1 night we even had 4 destro warlocks so the rule was that as soon as they got to 40% everyone else stopped aoe'ing so that the warlocks could easily shadowburn using all 6 charges .

    On farm it is pretty much a fact that everyone goes full crazy aoe mode and the first wave of mobs are dead in like 5 seconds
    Why would you use the Glyph of Havoc on that fight? Weapon spawns are up enough for cleaving Incinerates/Immos that the glyph would be a loss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Starting garrosh next reset, any tips for how to deal with p1?

    Is it important to burn down the adds asap or would it be better for progression to only use them for embers and focus on the boss?
    I'm assuming you're 25m, so I can't give you tips for solo'ing Engineers in P1. That said, it depends on how much passive AoE you have from other classes. Keep in mind that even if the mobs are at 60% when the star hits, that's still 10% left on all of them to Shadowburn after the star. I'd just let people AoE cleave for increased single target damage (Yourself included) which will probably get them to 60% if 25m health values are anything like 10m health values.

    For later phases there's not much optimization beyond using Immo/Incinerates for Havoc cleave for the single target increase on the weapons.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •