1. #3401
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Do you use the LMG so you don't have to switch helms for your OS or did I miss something ? Last I was aware, they're both about on par with one another but the haste proc could lead to sub-gcd Incins with a moderate amount of haste on your gear. Thought I'd been keeping up with the thread. No reference to it in the OP.
    No real difference between the two. Mostly just convenience at this point.

  2. #3402
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    No real difference between the two. Mostly just convenience at this point.
    Gotcha.

    Convenience for me right now is having one less proc to track :P

    I think I'm gonna try haste>crit, tho ... your point earlier about being able to bleed Chaos Bolts faster during high generation periods is well taken. That, and being able to build back up to that next ember quicker / more reliably during execute when something's about to die.

    Haha on a couple Iron Juggernaut kills I just about screamed when being a single freaking gcd away from getting off another Shadowburn would have been the difference between being 2nd on damage done and 1st

  3. #3403
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    Haste > crit imho is more fun to play. Slow incinerates just bore me
    I set the 8097 (or somewhere near of that?) haste breakpoint for demo in AMR when SoO was released. I never changed that, so I was always playing with that value if I didn't had to sacrifice mastery to get there.
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  4. #3404
    problem is that it is way too easy to get incinerates casts under the gcd and it just feels like such a waste imo.

  5. #3405
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    problem is that it is way too easy to get incinerates casts under the gcd and it just feels like such a waste imo.
    I feel confortable with 30% haste buffed.
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  6. #3406
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    I have no issues with sub 1 sec incinerates. I take care not to conflag under LMG unless I have to.

    Low haste just feels so clunky with non backdrafted incinerates for my taste.

  7. #3407
    Hey guys, quick question - so how valuable is our t16 4 piece for destro?

    I got offset Flex Shoulders and Helm, but in order to use them I'd have to lose the LFR 4 piece. I did some raid dummy testing, and the 4 piece was coming out on top each time, but not by much. Am I doing something wrong? The two pieces I'd replace are 528 vs the 548 that I'd upgrade the 540s too. Overall, these are the stats before and after: 528 4 piece: 40366 SP, 16.26 haste, 15.01 hit, 17.35 crit, 79.38 mastery. After with the two 540 pieces I'm 40481 SP, 19.11 Haste, 15.11 hit, 17.96 crit, 88.65 mastery, but lose the 4 piece.

    Thanks

  8. #3408
    You probably could have read this thread or multiple other page 1 threads for the answer, but go with the 4pc.

  9. #3409
    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    You probably could have read this thread or multiple other page 1 threads for the answer, but go with the 4pc.
    Honestly, sifting through all 171 pages of this thread, or the many, many topics posted on these forums was not appealing, when most of the time people will cheerfully answer here. Your comment did make me find the search thread feature. Thanks for your input though.

  10. #3410
    So i read that casting buffed Chaos Bolts is vital for destro dps. I always try to cast as many Chaos Bolts as possible when trinkets are up but what about Lightweave, Jade Spirit, the 4pc crit buff and Synapse Strings ? I usually ignore Lightweave and Jade Spirit and only cast Chaos Bolt if i'm close to capping embers when i have no trinket procs. Am i doing it wrong ?

  11. #3411
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantomlord91 View Post
    So i read that casting buffed Chaos Bolts is vital for destro dps. I always try to cast as many Chaos Bolts as possible when trinkets are up but what about Lightweave, Jade Spirit, the 4pc crit buff and Synapse Strings ? I usually ignore Lightweave and Jade Spirit and only cast Chaos Bolt if i'm close to capping embers when i have no trinket procs. Am i doing it wrong ?
    You're thinking along the correct lines, yes. However, let me be a bit more specific:

    It requires a fair amount of forethought in when to use your embers and with what procs. You basically never want to cast an unbuffed one. You'll generally dump all embers during RPPM procs, dump embers during 4pc depending on ember generation, and then dump everything during PBoI.

    What requires forthought is mainly when to dump embers as PBoI comes back up, as you'll want to have as close to 4 embers as possible when it procs. You may only want to dump 1 or 2 embers during RPPM procs if there's 15-30 seconds until the ICD on PBoI.

    However, it really largely depends on how much stats you have in ember generation & external temp buffs of those stats. (Haste/Crit).

    It'll take getting used to on the optimal timings of when to cast each, but it's not really possible to give specific advice as everyone generates embers at different rates. Not to mention things like SBurn generation in actual fights.

  12. #3412
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    Destro Advice Please

    I'm going to start leveling my lock back up to 90 (currently 85) and want to get some advice about the class. I know that generally speaking destro is the best spec to be for pve and plan on leveling up as destro so I can learn the spec instead of hitting 90 and having to learn rotations & stat priorities then. I read the sticky on destro locks and still have some questions. This is generalized questions since I know that most of the time the answer is "boss specific".

    1. What talents should I be picking up?
    2. What are good glyphs to pick up?
    3. Is the observer the best pet to use for most fights?

    Thanks ahead of time for your advice.

  13. #3413
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    I'm going to start leveling my lock back up to 90 (currently 85) and want to get some advice about the class. I know that generally speaking destro is the best spec to be for pve and plan on leveling up as destro so I can learn the spec instead of hitting 90 and having to learn rotations & stat priorities then. I read the sticky on destro locks and still have some questions. This is generalized questions since I know that most of the time the answer is "boss specific".

    1. What talents should I be picking up?
    2. What are good glyphs to pick up?
    3. Is the observer the best pet to use for most fights?

    Thanks ahead of time for your advice.
    If you read the sticky then why didn't you just post there? It's THE place for questions and discussion about Destro locks!

    Moved your thread to the sticky, where it belongs.
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  14. #3414
    Field Marshal Alyzyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    I'm going to start leveling my lock back up to 90 (currently 85) and want to get some advice about the class. I know that generally speaking destro is the best spec to be for pve and plan on leveling up as destro so I can learn the spec instead of hitting 90 and having to learn rotations & stat priorities then. I read the sticky on destro locks and still have some questions. This is generalized questions since I know that most of the time the answer is "boss specific".

    1. What talents should I be picking up?
    2. What are good glyphs to pick up?
    3. Is the observer the best pet to use for most fights?

    Thanks ahead of time for your advice.
    1. Its entirely up to you. Most players use;
    Tier 1 Soul leech ;
    Tier 2 usually Mortal coil although Shadowfury is good in certain situations where you might want to stun add(s) for example Klaxxi fight ;
    Tier 3 Soul Link with demon active(damage sharing) if you picked GoSac, then it just gives passive 20% health. You might also look at Dark Bargain for certain situations because it allows you to soak a ton of damage - Protectors fight: tanking desperate measures; Iron Juggernaut fight:Soaking bombs. I'm sure there's more fights where its useful that I dont know of.
    Tier 4 Burning rush is a nice speedboost
    Tier 5 All are very close although GoSac pulls ahead in AoE fights, also, no pet to handle ! its a dream !
    Tier 6 Depends on you. I use AD on most fights, but on heavy movement (thok for example) I use Kil'jaeden's Cunning. Not sure if Mannorth's Fury is useful as destro, or on what fights, I'm not sure about that.

    2. Thats entirely up to you again. There's no "must have" glyphs, I got Glyph of Healthstone so it would heal more, and Glyph of Siphon Life for a bit of self healing. You can also use Glyph of Unending Resolve for Thok fight so you can use it more and ignore the silence. Just make sure that you know how much damage you can take before using Unending Resolve for dps purposes.

    3. Generally pets are very close and it doesnt make much difference in single target situations. IF you use a pet, then observer is suggested for single target. Imp is recommended for multi target situations.
    Last edited by Alyzyr; 2014-02-09 at 10:39 AM.

  15. #3415
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    I'm going to start leveling my lock back up to 90 (currently 85) and want to get some advice about the class. I know that generally speaking destro is the best spec to be for pve and plan on leveling up as destro so I can learn the spec instead of hitting 90 and having to learn rotations & stat priorities then. I read the sticky on destro locks and still have some questions. This is generalized questions since I know that most of the time the answer is "boss specific".

    1. What talents should I be picking up?
    2. What are good glyphs to pick up?
    3. Is the observer the best pet to use for most fights?

    Thanks ahead of time for your advice.
    1.
    T1: Pretty much always Soul Leech. Absorb shield is really, really strong for Destruction since we generate it fast.
    T2: Whatever fight dictates. I tend to default to shadowfury.
    T3: Fight dictates this. I generally stick with Soul Link unless there's a reason to take one of the other two. (IE Immune is needed or all damage is in 1min Burst like H Horridon)
    T4: Burning Rush is great since it stacks with every other movement speed effect out there. BR+Eng Belt is some amazing speed. UW can be really good for certain mechanics as it dispels ALL magic effects in addition to the other stuff.
    T5: Probably GoSac. GoSup/Serv is basically even with GoSac with T16N gear. Add in lots of cleaving and SBurn ember generation and it pulls ahead.
    T6: Never take MF. (Seriously. Freakin' double damage on RoF? Wat.) KjC is great for high-movement fights due to the generally prohibitive mana cost on our instants. AD is great on fights where movement is somewhat limited and you can make good use of the flexibility provided by a recharging CD. (For example, on Thok it lets you use DS at optimal times with limited movement/silence-immuning effects.).

    2.
    CotE is great.
    Soulstone is obviously great if you'll ever Soulstone anyone.
    The UR glyphs have their uses depending on fight mechanics. (2min CD on UR for Thok is great due to it's silence-immuning secondary effect).
    Siphon life is a good filler spot.
    Havoc can have it's uses depending on how often you'll be able to cast a non-glyphed Havoc w/ Chaos Bolts in the fight. An example of using the Havoc glyph is Thok where your only opportunities to use Havoc are >1min intervals. It's downside is that you effectively lose 10 seconds of Havoc per minute. (25x2 vs 60x1). As a result every 2.5 minutes you've potentially lost an entire Chaos Bolt or more's worth of damage.

    3.
    Observer is overrated. If you're not taking GoSac then I'd prefer Shivvara or Fel Imp over Obs unless you need the interrupt. All the pets are pretty much exactly the same damage save the Imp which does slightly less. Obs/Voidlord are strictly melee. Shivvara is a hybrid where she has melee attacks but her main ability is a medium ranged Shadow damage attack. Imp is fully ranged. Depending on the fight and how often you have to switch, Obs/Void likely drops behind Shivvara in damage, and with lots of distance between target switches Fel Imp can pull ahead of Shivvara even though it's theoretical max is lower.

    HTH.

  16. #3416
    Brusalk, is stat order of:
    Mastery >= Crit >> Haste. This is the best reforging setup I've found.
    Still true?
    Thats what I'm following but, my sim show Mastery>Haste>Crit, and my guild also says I should reforge Haste>Crit
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  17. #3417
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerel View Post
    Brusalk, is stat order of:

    Still true?
    Thats what I'm following but, my sim show Mastery>Haste>Crit, and my guild also says I should reforge Haste>Crit
    Mastery always priority, follow by either haste or crit, doesn't really matter. I prefer a high crit build with just enough haste such that during meta gem + back draft, incinerates cast time does not go far below the gcd.

  18. #3418
    Just started progressing on 10hc Garrosh, got couple questions.
    I remember hearing about change to RoF to not generate embers on first tick. Does that mean I should overlap RoF when old one still have ~1 sec to spare? I have trouble understanding this part of guide, on one occasion it says that when you overlap, it takes into account the recently placed (so big no-no to recast early), but then it says that when old RoF runs out, it then start using newly placed ticks.
    I'm asking since our adds die so fast I see no point of aoeing and just RoF -> FnB Immo and single boss and I'm trying to find way to max ember gain.
    When transitioning, I'm at around ~40-45mln damage done to boss, is that acceptable or should it be possible to play it better?
    Any tips for Temple? We only seen it twice so far, but the plan I had for my group of adds (being teamed with resto druid atm) is to have him stun one add, when I glyph-havoc one, conflag -> interrupt -> chaos bolt third, and use Shadowfury to take care of second interrupt.

  19. #3419
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Just started progressing on 10hc Garrosh, got couple questions.
    I remember hearing about change to RoF to not generate embers on first tick. Does that mean I should overlap RoF when old one still have ~1 sec to spare? I have trouble understanding this part of guide, on one occasion it says that when you overlap, it takes into account the recently placed (so big no-no to recast early), but then it says that when old RoF runs out, it then start using newly placed ticks.
    I'm asking since our adds die so fast I see no point of aoeing and just RoF -> FnB Immo and single boss and I'm trying to find way to max ember gain.
    When transitioning, I'm at around ~40-45mln damage done to boss, is that acceptable or should it be possible to play it better?
    Any tips for Temple? We only seen it twice so far, but the plan I had for my group of adds (being teamed with resto druid atm) is to have him stun one add, when I glyph-havoc one, conflag -> interrupt -> chaos bolt third, and use Shadowfury to take care of second interrupt.
    1. The only time I RoF is during phase 1 when all the adds come out.
    2. I don't have my dmg meter up during the fight, so I don't know where I stand on Garrosh dmg at that point for you to compare it to. Are you all having trouble meeting certain dps checks?
    3. For the Temple intermission, I do run with glyph'd havoc. I conflag twice on 2 random adds in that phase to get 6 stacks of backdraft. I start out havoc'ing one, and cast chaos bolt at one, shadowfury all 3, then fire another chaos bolt. Therefore 2 chaos bolts hit 2 of the adds, and the arcane mage I do a pack with kills the other. Depending on procs, the chaos bolts sometimes kill them both, otherwise they are in shadowburn range.

  20. #3420
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerel View Post
    Brusalk, is stat order of:

    Still true?
    Thats what I'm following but, my sim show Mastery>Haste>Crit, and my guild also says I should reforge Haste>Crit
    I should perhaps make it more clear that anything below the TL;DR 5.4 changes is still 5.2 information. One can read 5.2 then read the TL;DR to catch up however.

    It's basically Mastery first and foremost, followed by whatever stat you like more. I personally prefer Haste due to being able to bleed embers quicker during periods of high ember generation and more overall AoE damage. However, by having less crit I am making the sacrifice that I'll only be able to AoE on packs that have 1-2 more mobs than if I went crit and maintain neutral ember generation/spending.

    The important thing to remember when it comes to AoE is that Haste lets you get more casts out per unit time, which means more AoE damage. However, our AoE is limited by our ember generation from our AoE spells. Crit is the stat which affords us more ember generation per ember spent, which is what is most important in terms of maintaining an AoE rotation. However, once you start generating more embers than you spend per cast Crit doesn't mean you can cast more damage per cast when compared to Haste.


    That's kind of an in-depth look at why I generally prefer Haste vs. Crit. I can explain further if someone wants.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OokingDooker View Post
    Mastery always priority, follow by either haste or crit, doesn't really matter. I prefer a high crit build with just enough haste such that during meta gem + back draft, incinerates cast time does not go far below the gcd.
    Again I respect your decision as it really doesn't matter at all between Haste vs. Crit, but mind if I ask why you feel it's a bad thing to go below the GCD with Incinerate?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Just started progressing on 10hc Garrosh, got couple questions.
    I remember hearing about change to RoF to not generate embers on first tick. Does that mean I should overlap RoF when old one still have ~1 sec to spare? I have trouble understanding this part of guide, on one occasion it says that when you overlap, it takes into account the recently placed (so big no-no to recast early), but then it says that when old RoF runs out, it then start using newly placed ticks.
    I'm asking since our adds die so fast I see no point of aoeing and just RoF -> FnB Immo and single boss and I'm trying to find way to max ember gain.
    When transitioning, I'm at around ~40-45mln damage done to boss, is that acceptable or should it be possible to play it better?
    Any tips for Temple? We only seen it twice so far, but the plan I had for my group of adds (being teamed with resto druid atm) is to have him stun one add, when I glyph-havoc one, conflag -> interrupt -> chaos bolt third, and use Shadowfury to take care of second interrupt.
    You shouldn't overlap RoF. Mana cost gets prohibitive, plus you're spending more GCDs per minute casting RoF. Not to mention that I'm not 100% sure anymore exactly what will happen when you do so. I'm pretty sure that you'll be losing that last tick of the first RoF if you recast over an old one, but I'll double check when I get home later today.

    As for Garrosh P1 adds, all that matters is that they get to ~55% health before Iron Star. Any damage past that point is detrimental to the raid as classes like SPriests, Warlocks, Healy Priests etc can all benefit a lot from being able to hit an add sub-20%. (Iron Star does 50% HP damage to mobs) If you or anyone in your raid needs to be flat out AoE'ing to make that 55% check, then you're the best one to do it. However, remind your raid that if they get it below that point, that the raid as a whole is losing out on a LOT of boss damage which is really the important DPS check in P1. You'll be spamming Chaos Bolts with Immo+RoF on those adds, Enhance Shammys will be getting FS procs for days, proc-based dotters will be getting tons of resources, etc.

    Are you solo'ing engineers (as I have to do) or is that job someone else's? Here's my personal damage done on Garrosh in P1 on one of our recent kills. I get 26.71 mil boss damage in on P1 even when going out for both engineers and using 2 DS charges on Engineers alone. (And no opening burst on Boss since I have to save embers/CDs for Engineer)

    Your damage in P1 is about 15-20 mil more than mine and we're in similar gear, though my uptime is substantially less on the boss. You're right about where I'd expect you to be in terms of boss damage I would think.

    As for temple, I don't use Havoc glyph, open with Havoc -> CB on 2 adds while a single-target DPS with an interrupt gets third add. I stun first cast with Shadowfury (With 10k haste it's perfect timing), kill my 2 adds with 2x conflag and then Shadowburns and then help finish off my partners add while he interrupts the second cast of the third guy.

    Also, if you are running AD (which if you're not in desecrate group I'd say do so) then ask to be on the middle group in temple. Doing so you can 2xRoF on first 2 packs allowing you to go into the phase with ~2.5 embers and still be fine for transition.

    In the temple transition, if you coordinate groups properly you should probably be one of the top, if not the top damage done on Embodied Doubt assuming you don't screw up.

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