1. #3441
    Field Marshal Kromus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    If you read the first section of the guide I explain the changes from 5.2 -> 5.4, and I also include a notice that everything below that section is 5.2 information. If you want up-to-date info you can read the 5.2 version and then apply the 5.4 TL;DR to it.

    In other words what you are looking at there is 5.2 info, and the 5.4 info is at the top.
    Thanks for the clarification

    So essentially they are all the same, interesting. I noticed some Destro locks using pets, some others. Typically I'm topping meters in my raids but I just wanted to make sure I was being optimal , thanks for clearing it up

  2. #3442
    Quote Originally Posted by Kromus View Post
    Thanks for the clarification

    So essentially they are all the same, interesting. I noticed some Destro locks using pets, some others. Typically I'm topping meters in my raids but I just wanted to make sure I was being optimal , thanks for clearing it up
    Yeah. For single target it really doesn't matter.

    Theoretically Sup/Serv would be best for a fight where you spend the entire fight AoE'ing however, as the pet still does damage to one target, while GoSac provides to direct benefit to AoE damage on any targets.

    Theoretically GoSac would be best for a fight where you spend a much higher proportion of the fight using consumers over generators than on a single target fight.

    In practice GoSac is best because there's really no fight where you're AoE'ing forever, and it's still even on single target.


    Do note that w/ GoSup/Serv you're best off with Haste/Crit > Mastery in the situations where you'd use it, and you'd use Mastery > Haste == Crit in situations where you'd use GoSac.

  3. #3443
    Is is worth it to dump a CB with the 4P proc? Usually when I gen an ember I'll cast immolate and use a CB and I find I usually end filling the next ember before the 4P CD is off. Just wondered if it might be better to just save the embers and only start doing that when capping at 3 or 4.

  4. #3444
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxate View Post
    Is is worth it to dump a CB with the 4P proc? Usually when I gen an ember I'll cast immolate and use a CB and I find I usually end filling the next ember before the 4P CD is off. Just wondered if it might be better to just save the embers and only start doing that when capping at 3 or 4.
    The whole damage potential of Destro comes from when you choose to use your embers. You need to make an informed decision about whether you'll need that ember that'd you'd otherwise spend during the 4PC proc for a stronger proc or fight mechanic later.

    In general you should really only cast CB under a 4PC proc if you'll cap before you'll be able to use that ember.

  5. #3445
    High Overlord Gorthan's Avatar
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    Paragons 25 HC:

    - Keep RoF up with 2+ targets for amber generation.
    - Havoc immolate + 2 x incinerate for amber generation
    - DB + TW for soaking aim

    any other suggestion?

  6. #3446
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorthan View Post
    Paragons 25 HC:

    - Keep RoF up with 2+ targets for amber generation.
    - Havoc immolate + 2 x incinerate for amber generation
    - DB + TW for soaking aim

    any other suggestion?
    glyph of havoc,

    havoc on pull to ember generation, then again on swarmkeeper / korven the prime, 2chaos bolt, then use it on cd to generate embers.

    also, I always cast immolate on every target possible during the 4piece set proc. it usually lets me immolate 3 targets per proc, it makes you generate a absurd amount of embers.

    I run with kjc and i found it very helpful to keep casting while avoiding shit.

    also, you will die if you use only dark bargain as soaking, you need to use unending resolve with dark bargain
    Last edited by Zharradan; 2014-02-18 at 05:10 PM.

  7. #3447
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorthan View Post
    Paragons 25 HC:

    - Keep RoF up with 2+ targets for amber generation.
    - Havoc immolate + 2 x incinerate for amber generation
    - DB + TW for soaking aim

    any other suggestion?
    Immolate other paragons all the time for embers. That's about it though. (Don't prioritize Immo over Chaos Bolts/SBurns though)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zharradan View Post
    glyph of havoc,

    havoc on pull to ember generation, then again on swarmkeeper / korven the prime, 2chaos bolt, then use it on cd to generate embers.

    also, I always cast immolate on every target possible during the 4piece set proc. it usually lets me immolate 3 targets per proc, it makes you generate a absurd amount of embers.

    I run with kjc and i found it very helpful to keep casting while avoiding shit.
    You're losing a TON of ember generation by using the Havoc glyph. (3 casts of Incinerate every 2.5 mins) Korven is typically up long enough that you'll get 2 havocs in anyway so there's no real need to use the Havoc glyph at all.

  8. #3448
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post

    You're losing a TON of ember generation by using the Havoc glyph. (3 casts of Incinerate every 2.5 mins) Korven is typically up long enough that you'll get 2 havocs in anyway so there's no real need to use the Havoc glyph at all.
    I prefer to use havoc every 1min and get a meaningful amount of embers just after i spent them all than using it every 25sec to get 2 extra emberbits, one less thing to keep and eye on, and fits the fight better at least for me.

    I do recognize glyph of havoc gives you less embers/min but still...

  9. #3449
    Quote Originally Posted by Zharradan View Post
    I prefer to use havoc every 1min and get a meaningful amount of embers just after i spent them all than using it every 25sec to get 2 extra emberbits, one less thing to keep and eye on, and fits the fight better at least for me.

    I do recognize glyph of havoc gives you less embers/min but still...
    To each his own, but it's definitely not what I would do.

  10. #3450
    Stood in the Fire JV Chequer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    To each his own, but it's definitely not what I would do.
    For bursting blooseeker and dmging both prime and swarmkeeper in same time Glyph pulls ahead, so I choose keep up with the glyph too.
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  11. #3451
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    Brusalk, how do you handle the 4th Malice on Garrosh 10men?
    We have one of our Mages assigned to soak the Stacks with Imp. Invisibility together with our Monk and Zen Meditation.
    Sadly on our Firstkill (Video) the Mage got the 4th Malice himself so I tried to take his role. Of course it didn't work as I had no Dark Bargain.
    Has anyone an idea to solve this problem?
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  12. #3452
    Remove Unending Resolve glyph. Sac your Voidwalker. Spec into Sacrificial Pact. Pop Shadow Bulwark then Sacrificial Pact and Unending Resolve. Twilight Ward is also good.

    Edit: You obviously can't do this for both Ironstars so you might want to save either UR or SB. I'm not sure if it will be enough then so you might need external CD's or somoene with immunity to do it. We're using Rogues, Hunters and Boomkins atm in our 25M for the 4th Malice. I'm just helping on the 2nd.
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2014-02-18 at 07:01 PM.

  13. #3453
    Quote Originally Posted by Melian View Post
    Brusalk, how do you handle the 4th Malice on Garrosh 10men?
    We have one of our Mages assigned to soak the Stacks with Imp. Invisibility together with our Monk and Zen Meditation.
    Sadly on our Firstkill (Video) the Mage got the 4th Malice himself so I tried to take his role. Of course it didn't work as I had no Dark Bargain.
    Has anyone an idea to solve this problem?
    I posted this in another thread a while back:

    For P4, here is a guide to safely soaking a 4 stack of Malicious Blast on Malice #4. Beyond a pre-hot/shield for the first stack, you don't need a healer to live:
    1. pop shadow bulwark and take stack # 1 - 330k, get healed
    2. Pop Unending resolve (-40%)
    3. take stack #2 - 578K reduced by UR to 346K (remember you will have >1MM HP at this point)
    4. pop dark bargain
    5. take stack #3 - 1MM reduced by UR to 600k, absorbed by Dark bargain
    6. take stack #4 - 1.77 MM reduced to UR 1.06MM, absorbed by Dark bargain.
    You will have a total DB absorb of 1.66 MM, reduced by 50% = 830K over 8 seconds.
    7. Pop Twilight ward, absorb the first 250k (~2.5 dark bargain ticks)
    8. pop glyphed HS for 40% of max hP over 10 seconds = 400k (with shadow bulwark)
    9. (optional) 1 ember tap (not glyphed) = 330-400 k. Half of this should be overheal.

    with a healer's help you can actually take 5 stacks without much difficulty as well

  14. #3454
    Quote Originally Posted by JV Chequer View Post
    For bursting blooseeker and dmging both prime and swarmkeeper in same time Glyph pulls ahead, so I choose keep up with the glyph too.
    You still get 2 Havocs in on prime and swarmkeeper so I don't see the argument.

    You're swimming in embers at the start of the fight from 4PC+Immosx3 so I don't really see the need for it at the beginning either.

    /shrug.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Melian View Post
    Brusalk, how do you handle the 4th Malice on Garrosh 10men?
    We have one of our Mages assigned to soak the Stacks with Imp. Invisibility together with our Monk and Zen Meditation.
    Sadly on our Firstkill (Video) the Mage got the 4th Malice himself so I tried to take his role. Of course it didn't work as I had no Dark Bargain.
    Has anyone an idea to solve this problem?
    The two tanks soak all the stacks of malice minus the first which is gotten by the two people near them in their assigned group. The tanks move the boss towards the group that gets the malice (2 ranged groups, one melee) to get second stack on. They use their CDs to soak all the ticks. Meanwhile everyone else spreads for the clump check.

    The person who gets malice doesn't move at all, and if fire spawns on them they can try and survive, but the healers will likely be out of range to heal them so often that person just dies.

    Tanks move the boss over to the other side after bombardment ends and the boss dies before or as he casts that next death channel. We spread out for the second bombardment that happens before his channel (assuming you don't have any stacks hit the boss). If for some reason we're really slow we can just get that ironstar into the boss anyway by not spreading.


    You can look at the VoDs on my stream for our past few kills if you like.

    I'll also be streaming our 14/14H farm later this evening starting at 7:00 PM PST. We'll probably get to Garrosh around 9-9:30 ish. You could tune in for that when we get to Garrosh and watch us do it w/ callouts and stuff in P4 if you're interested.

  15. #3455
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    Thanks. I'll try the version posted by Turturin as it has the least impact on my raids tactic.
    Only problem I see is that I'll take a lot more damage during P1-3 and our healer loves me for being so easy to heal
    I'll take a look at your past vids, too, Brusalk, but I think that I can't convice my RL to change the whole P4 tactic now that we killed him just because I don't want to lose the last 30sec of DPS time :P
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  16. #3456
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    I dinged my Warlock 90 (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...urisa/advanced) yesterday and I've skimmed through the guide whilst at work and I was wondering... do we really rarely use Chaos Bolt? :s
    Can someone explain why Fel Flame is seemingly better than Incinerate as a filler ability?
    The way I've been playing it is

    Immolate
    Confrag
    Trinkets/Procs/Instability
    Chaos Bolt
    Confrag
    Chaos Bolt
    Incinerate filler
    repeat.

    Is this horribly wrong? Am I being really stupid?

  17. #3457
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    I don't know how you came to the conclusion that we rarely use Chaos Bolt and that Fel Flame is better than Incinnerate?!

    Fel Flame was better for about 1 day after 5.4 was released and then it got nerfed. Incinnerate is our main filler spell. Fel Flame is far to expensive to be an alternative.
    Chaos Bolt is cast every time you get close to 4 Burning Embers OR if you have major Int Proccs. As a result Chaos Bolt is #2 in your damage chart after Incinnerate with low gear. If your gear gets better, Chaos Bolt gets #1.

    "repeat" sounds a bit weird as there is no real rota for destruction (as for almost all classes today). Your Prio should roughly be to keep Immolate up, to avoid getting 2 stacks of Conflagrate (use it whenever you like, but don't get 2 stacks), to cast Chaos Bolt if you get major int proccs, to cast Chaos Bolt if you get close to 4 Embers, to avoid casting Chaos Bolt while you have more than 2 Backdraft stacks (you get 3 after using Conflag), to use Dark Soul if you have major int proccs.

    As an opener I would suggest:

    Incinnerate (start cast 3 sec pre pull)
    Immolate
    Dark Soul
    Conflag
    Conflag
    Incinnerate
    Incinnerate
    Incinnerate
    Incinnerate
    Chaos Bolt
    Chaos Bolt
    ... Start Prio List ...

    About your Armory-Link:
    You are highly above hit cap (15%) so get rid of some hit/expertise, don't reforge hit to expertise ever (as this is completely redundant), get glyphs, and your reforge prio should be something like:

    1: 15% hit
    2: Mastery
    3: Crit / Haste


    Hope this helped you a little bit.
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  18. #3458
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply Melian - I dinged the character yesterday so I'm literally just feeling my way around the ins and outs of Warlocks.

    RE Fel Flame: "(The optimal rotation involves only using Incinerate under Backdraft or Hero/Haste Procs. Fill with Fel Flame otherwise.)"

    Excellent, cheers man. The whole hit to exp thing was done by ReforgeLite - I'll amend that a bit later. I was told going full Expertise would ensure my pet's attacks wouldn't be parried/dodged?

    Cheers for the priority breakdown too. Could you suggest any glyphs?

  19. #3459
    Quote Originally Posted by GenaiTN View Post
    Thanks for the reply Melian - I dinged the character yesterday so I'm literally just feeling my way around the ins and outs of Warlocks.

    RE Fel Flame: "(The optimal rotation involves only using Incinerate under Backdraft or Hero/Haste Procs. Fill with Fel Flame otherwise.)"

    Excellent, cheers man. The whole hit to exp thing was done by ReforgeLite - I'll amend that a bit later. I was told going full Expertise would ensure my pet's attacks wouldn't be parried/dodged?

    Cheers for the priority breakdown too. Could you suggest any glyphs?
    Expertise doesn't work like that. The only benefit you get as a caster is the conversion to hit.

    That parenthesis was marked red to try and indicate that it's no longer true (what the green was saying). Sadly MMO doesn't have strikeout as far as I can tell.

  20. #3460
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Sadly MMO doesn't have strikeout as far as I can tell.
    Brusalk is incredibly attractive powerful.
    Last edited by Rethul Ur No; 2014-02-20 at 06:57 AM.

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