1. #3641
    Well maybe it wasn't just me then, I've been having "scumbaggy" timing as well (thanks jangly lol). No idea if I've just hit bad luck for last 2 resets or something else was wonky.
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  2. #3642
    Is it better to run with glyphed havoc for Garrosh or not?

  3. #3643
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warlockSTAR View Post
    Is it better to run with glyphed havoc for Garrosh or not?
    I use it because I'm doing 10 man and need the extra chaos bolt in first intermission.

    Otherwise I'd unglyph it for more embers/chaos bolts(if killing weapons).



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  4. #3644
    Quote Originally Posted by warlockSTAR View Post
    Is it better to run with glyphed havoc for Garrosh or not?
    It can make the first transition a lot easier. If your raid needs this little push in the first transition, it is worth the damage loss in P2/3.

  5. #3645
    Stood in the Fire JV Chequer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    I use it because I'm doing 10 man and need the extra chaos bolt in first intermission.

    Otherwise I'd unglyph it for more embers/chaos bolts(if killing weapons).

    Exactly.
    Glyphed CB at 1st Intermission make us able doing a pack with one more player easily.
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  6. #3646
    Quote Originally Posted by JV Chequer View Post
    Exactly.
    Glyphed CB at 1st Intermission make us able doing a pack with one more player easily.
    I don't use CB for garrosh and me + our monk tank takes down our first pack easily enough. I don't think that's reason enough to glyph Havoc for the fight.

  7. #3647
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I don't use CB for garrosh and me + our monk tank takes down our first pack easily enough. I don't think that's reason enough to glyph Havoc for the fight.
    Imo its more like a lower ilvl warlock is paired with someone that does little to no damage might want to glyph it. Example would be when I first started doing Garrosh I think I was 572? Maybe 571. The extra CB really helped me out in the first pack since it was basically just all me and using my potion there wasn't an option since our P3-P4 push was really low damage wise. After awhile though my second CB stopped hitting the first target since myself and the disc priest gained more gear/experience and now unglyphing it is an option but before that if I didn't glyph it there was the off chance of our damage just being a little too low and losing a cast on one of them.

  8. #3648
    I'm lost and it's really starting to piss me off. I'm pretty sure my opener is wrong/screwed up and is costing me a LOT of dps over the course of a fight. Am also pretty sure that i'm not lining up procs efficiently/poor usage of 2nd potion and Dark Soul.

    If anyone has time - http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...dnfTrB#fight=1 - logs from last night, died horribly on Spoils and Klaxxi.

    I'm in a 14/14H clearing guild and my gear is 571 whereas everyone else sits at 579+ so there is a gear disparity to begin with, could really use some help or reassurance the gear gap is significant.

    Thanks in advance!

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Ormie/advanced <- Armoury
    Last edited by Xdenek; 2014-05-16 at 04:45 AM.

  9. #3649
    The Patient Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey One View Post
    Imo its more like a lower ilvl warlock is paired with someone that does little to no damage might want to glyph it. Example would be when I first started doing Garrosh I think I was 572? Maybe 571. The extra CB really helped me out in the first pack since it was basically just all me and using my potion there wasn't an option since our P3-P4 push was really low damage wise. After awhile though my second CB stopped hitting the first target since myself and the disc priest gained more gear/experience and now unglyphing it is an option but before that if I didn't glyph it there was the off chance of our damage just being a little too low and losing a cast on one of them.
    Going into that phase on 10 man at ~567 ilvl I was able to consistently duo a pack with Fire and Brimstone and shadowburn havoc in only one or two casts. Don't see a real reason to use havoc glyph, if your group is struggling the group arrangement is likely the real culprit.

  10. #3650
    Quote Originally Posted by Furtylol View Post
    Going into that phase on 10 man at ~567 ilvl I was able to consistently duo a pack with Fire and Brimstone and shadowburn havoc in only one or two casts. Don't see a real reason to use havoc glyph, if your group is struggling the group arrangement is likely the real culprit.
    No doubt your group arrangement changes a lot if I were to go in and FnB a couple of casts and expect to shadowburn I'd be looking at adds above 50% health lol

  11. #3651
    Mechagnome Scythax's Avatar
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    Post Crit vs Haste Builds - Destro

    Got a quick question in general about the choices between using builds that favor either haste or crit (after mastery). On sites like AMR, the general guide in this forum, as well as advice given by other prolific, experienced warlocks like Sparkuggz of Method EU, there's a prevalence for advising that people opt for haste builds over crit ones.

    This leads onto my question and uncertainty; Every time I've tried to switch up my build to favor haste over crit, my dps drops dramatically. Going from crit to haste I sometimes lose 50-70k depending on the fight, dummie or procs. I don't understand how this can be such a negative impact if so many well respected community advisers recommend it. Here's my armoury if it's relevant to understanding why this might be happening. I'm currently in my crit build because the haste was simply too detrimental.

    Armoury Link


    My second question leading on from this; If I'm having such better results from opting for crit, is that something that's totally fine to just keep using? Or is it genuinely worth sorting this issue out and changing to haste? To be perfectly honest, I enjoy crit. The casts are slower, but it's satisfying to feel like a train mounted howitzer. Some feedback on this angle would be appreciated as well.

    Thanks in advance, all. If this is better suited in another section of the forum, I apologize. But it felt out of place to be put in the sticky.

    PS: This is a relatively new character I'm still mastering. Only been in existance for a month and a half. I take all manner of advice seriously and for the betterment of my overall play.

  12. #3652
    My thought is that if you enjoy the build more, get more dps out of it, and it doesn't negatively affect your raid then why not stick with crit?

  13. #3653
    We have sticky guide for Destro where build questions like this belong. I moved your thread there.
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  14. #3654
    If you lose damage with a high haste build you are not using your globals properly and probably not your Backdraft stacks either. That's the problem with all haste builds. If you're too slow at clicking buttons or deciding what buttons to click you're screwed. It could obviously be a lag problem as well. From my own experience anything up to 13-14k haste is fine but I probably wouldn't try go higher with a legendary meta.

  15. #3655
    Quote Originally Posted by warlockSTAR View Post
    Is it better to run with glyphed havoc for Garrosh or not?
    I use it (25M) because the first transition goes a bit smoother. Also more Shadowburn scumbagging on the first wave of adds :P

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  16. #3656
    Quote Originally Posted by Scythax View Post
    Got a quick question in general about the choices between using builds that favor either haste or crit (after mastery). On sites like AMR, the general guide in this forum, as well as advice given by other prolific, experienced warlocks like Sparkuggz of Method EU, there's a prevalence for advising that people opt for haste builds over crit ones.

    This leads onto my question and uncertainty; Every time I've tried to switch up my build to favor haste over crit, my dps drops dramatically. Going from crit to haste I sometimes lose 50-70k depending on the fight, dummie or procs. I don't understand how this can be such a negative impact if so many well respected community advisers recommend it. Here's my armoury if it's relevant to understanding why this might be happening. I'm currently in my crit build because the haste was simply too detrimental.

    Armoury Link


    My second question leading on from this; If I'm having such better results from opting for crit, is that something that's totally fine to just keep using? Or is it genuinely worth sorting this issue out and changing to haste? To be perfectly honest, I enjoy crit. The casts are slower, but it's satisfying to feel like a train mounted howitzer. Some feedback on this angle would be appreciated as well.

    Thanks in advance, all. If this is better suited in another section of the forum, I apologize. But it felt out of place to be put in the sticky.

    PS: This is a relatively new character I'm still mastering. Only been in existance for a month and a half. I take all manner of advice seriously and for the betterment of my overall play.
    The only functional difference between Haste and Crit is their purpose and value for when there's more targets.

    Haste lets you AoE for more, and cleave for more, than Crit will let you.
    Crit will let you AoE on a smaller number of mobs. (See the section in the guide about sustaining the AoE rotation, where I go into how much crit is needed to sustain on different #s of mobs.)

    For single target there is no functional difference.


    If you are personally seeing a huge loss in damage going from Crit to Haste, it's likely an issue with how you're playing, rather than a downside with Haste vs Crit. With a high haste build you need to make sure that you are making good use of Backdraft and not wasting GCDs thinking, both of which will come with more experience playing with a high haste build.

    My personal recommendation is to run a high haste build, get used to it, and go from there.

  17. #3657
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    The only functional difference between Haste and Crit is their purpose and value for when there's more targets.

    Haste lets you AoE for more, and cleave for more, than Crit will let you.
    Crit will let you AoE on a smaller number of mobs. (See the section in the guide about sustaining the AoE rotation, where I go into how much crit is needed to sustain on different #s of mobs.)

    For single target there is no functional difference.


    If you are personally seeing a huge loss in damage going from Crit to Haste, it's likely an issue with how you're playing, rather than a downside with Haste vs Crit. With a high haste build you need to make sure that you are making good use of Backdraft and not wasting GCDs thinking, both of which will come with more experience playing with a high haste build.

    My personal recommendation is to run a high haste build, get used to it, and go from there.
    I feel like Haste build is still worse than Crit. I'm M>C>H on my Warlock and with around 4k haste, my Incinerates are already at 1.0 seconds during Backdraft+LMG.

    If I were to switch to a haste build, my Incinerates would easily go below 1.0 sec with Backdraft+LMG, which is lost stat value.

    Crit in return increases Chaos Bolt damage which is a huge plus if you are very good with timing CBs with procs since Haste doesn't do anything apart from reduces cast time.

  18. #3658
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janglybits View Post
    My Bindings have been exceedingly scumbaggy lately. I'm usually not getting procs until my pots and DS have worn out. It proccing when all my buffs are up in the opener has seemed like the exception, as opposed to the rule lately.
    Same here! Thought it was just me.
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  19. #3659
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    I feel like Haste build is still worse than Crit. I'm M>C>H on my Warlock and with around 4k haste, my Incinerates are already at 1.0 seconds during Backdraft+LMG.

    If I were to switch to a haste build, my Incinerates would easily go below 1.0 sec with Backdraft+LMG, which is lost stat value.

    Crit in return increases Chaos Bolt damage which is a huge plus if you are very good with timing CBs with procs since Haste doesn't do anything apart from reduces cast time.
    Backdraft+LMG is largely avoidable, and it's counterpart Lust+Backdraft is of minimal impact anyway. Haste also lets you get more bolts out during periods of high generation where you may otherwise cap.

    Also, Incinerate being under 1 second feels bad to people (though I'm not sure why myself), but it's not actually that bad of a thing, and isn't really enough to make Crit better than Haste even up to like 12k Haste.

  20. #3660
    The Patient Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    I feel like Haste build is still worse than Crit. I'm M>C>H on my Warlock and with around 4k haste, my Incinerates are already at 1.0 seconds during Backdraft+LMG.

    If I were to switch to a haste build, my Incinerates would easily go below 1.0 sec with Backdraft+LMG, which is lost stat value.

    Crit in return increases Chaos Bolt damage which is a huge plus if you are very good with timing CBs with procs since Haste doesn't do anything apart from reduces cast time.
    For the most part I agree with this, and with proper positioning and anticipation of movement I've never gotten any more bolts off with haste than with crit. Crit has higher potential top end on fights with above average ember generation, which is really the only fight(s) I still play destro on, so that factors into my evaluation of the stat priority. That said, I find it to be a pretty dreary spec already and haste only servers to amplify that

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