1. #3741
    Quote Originally Posted by Melian View Post
    I think it's not worth it, as you get a feeling for it quite fast. If you don't, it's an improvement to track it of course.
    -
    Is it worth it reacting(idling for a second, using Twilight Ward etc.) to the ICD at all? I prefer Mastery>Haste playstyle over Mastery>Crit and often find myself not getting 4p procs every ember even if the only thing currently benefitting from a haste and/or crit proc is my Immolate. Sometimes I fill up an ember so fast that the ICD doesn't finish even when I casted a CB during the last proc, should I idle? Lower my haste?

    Another question: how strong is the LMG proc compared to the 4piece for ember generation from Immolate?

  2. #3742
    Quote Originally Posted by Thragtusk View Post
    The first and foremost is what strategies for the interrupt phases of heroic thok are fellow destruction locks using?
    Affliction is vastly superior on Thok, if you can handle your stopcasting macro well it is miles ahead of destruction, I'd suggest giving it a whirl if you haven't already, playing the overpowered spec is what you want on progression. It will always be better to play the spec you're most comfortable with of course, but spending some time on Affliction (which really doesn't have that much to it once you are good at snapshotting) might be worth it. I can't speak for 10M though.

    The next one is my guild is starting heroic seigecrafter progression tomorrow and I was wondering if the fight is doable as destro or if it's "aff or gtfo" as I have not seen a lock do it as destro yet. The reason I ask is honestly I'm garbage as aff, admittedly I'm not using the right trinket but I'm on average 60k lower on all fights as aff then I am as destro and heck can only do 470 on protectors. So wondering how much I'm nerfing my guild by playing destro on siege.
    I find Destruction to be very good on Siegecrafter, we're 25M and use the mine strategy (as I'm sure most guilds do) and Destruction is better suited for dealing with the mines. Again, I can't really speak for 10M, but with the gear available Affliction (in it's very broken state) beats Destruction on nearly every 25M encounter.
    Last edited by striderZA; 2014-06-22 at 08:47 AM.

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  3. #3743
    I probably would consider aff if it wasn't like I said that I'm so bad at it I lost ~70k dps on a good day as aff.

  4. #3744
    Quote Originally Posted by striderZA View Post
    I find Destruction to be very good on Siegecrafter, we're 25M and use the mine strategy (as I'm sure most guilds do) and Destruction is better suited for dealing with the mines. Again, I can't really speak for 10M, but with the gear available Affliction (in it's very broken state) beats Destruction on nearly every 25M encounter.
    I'd say you're only right if your guild struggles with mines, or you don't have ele shamans and shadow priests, cause otherwise playing affliction and soulswapping dots onto mines to extend duration(s) of them gives you much much more boss damage than you can push out with destro, especially with the movement in the fight. Not trying to say destro is bad, but affliction is better if your guild can manage killing mines easily and can kill the boss in any semi-decent time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhachlirith View Post
    Is it worth it reacting(idling for a second, using Twilight Ward etc.) to the ICD at all? I prefer Mastery>Haste playstyle over Mastery>Crit and often find myself not getting 4p procs every ember even if the only thing currently benefitting from a haste and/or crit proc is my Immolate. Sometimes I fill up an ember so fast that the ICD doesn't finish even when I casted a CB during the last proc, should I idle? Lower my haste?

    Another question: how strong is the LMG proc compared to the 4piece for ember generation from Immolate?
    There's a 10 second ICD on the 4p, IE, no matter how much haste you lose, you'll end up filling an ember without gaining the 4p proc after every one you gain, since you're going to dump the haste into crit, a crit = double ember regen, you know where I'm going to. The 4p proc is more than likely stronger than the LMG proc in terms of ember regen, that being said, if your LMG procs, you will 100% be able to get a 4p proc within it, unless you're casting chaos bolts due to a trinket procing at the same time.

  5. #3745
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    4Set(helm, chest, gloves legs)
    Off Set Shoulders from norushen
    Norushen Neck
    Legendary Cloak
    Spoils Bracers
    IJ Waist
    galakras Boots
    Thok + Klaxxi Rings
    Immerseus + Dark Shamans/Garrosh Trinkets
    spoils wand/garrosh offhand


    im fairly sure this is the bis list , but it really comes down to what you prefer as the value of haste and crit is about equal where haste edges out on aoe and crit on single target from what ive been told, anything that maximizes the amount of mastery you have is the way to go.
    Yeah this is what I thought as well. Except I do currently have the HWF shoulders from protectors, but I'm beginning to think with the upgrades that the hit will be too much (I guess I could always gem the int + mastery gems instead of exp + mastery, but I'm not sure how much that affects dps?).
    Last edited by Gravityx; 2014-06-22 at 04:28 PM.

  6. #3746
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravityx View Post
    Yeah this is what I thought as well. Except I do currently have the HWF shoulders from protectors, but I'm beginning to think with the upgrades that the hit will be too much (I guess I could always gem the int + mastery gems instead of exp + mastery, but I'm not sure how much that affects dps?).
    Extremely minor differences. The main thing is you have a HCWF offpiece in the correct slot.

  7. #3747
    Quote Originally Posted by Thragtusk View Post
    edit: also almara pretty sure galakras boots aren't bis because while they do have haste/mastery on them where as toxic tornado treads are crit/mastery the toxic treads have a little over 100 mastery more on them even at 4/4
    yes, but the galakras boots have a yellow socket where you can put a 320 matery gem into it and the shamans pair only got a blue socket, so you actually end up getting 60 more mastery from it and equal version of them, you'll end up with more mastery using the galakras boots. if you compare hc wf versions of them, you'd end up with 21 more mastery and over 200 more haste than crit(assuming you go after the socket bonus ofc, different factors do come into play) more than enough to make the galakras boots superior especially when you consider that crit and haste is virtually equal.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2014-06-22 at 10:37 PM.

  8. #3748
    Don't know why I'm sharing this with you guys but there is a improvement to destructions opener that I found, you can see it my Garrosh video here.

    TL;DR use RoF 4.5 seconds before the pull. Be careful because it might aggro the boss (haven't checked though).

  9. #3749
    I don't think 1 free tick of RoF is something anyone cares about. Not to mention the fact that it only works on a few fights this tier.

  10. #3750
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I don't think 1 free tick of RoF is something anyone cares about. Not to mention the fact that it only works on a few fights this tier.
    It's more about the embers/trinket procs than it's actual damage. If timed right it can be 3 ticks to.

  11. #3751
    anything extra you can get for free is worth it if it helps trigger that annoying amp trinket on a more regular basis coz that trink has such an unreliable proc its not even funny.

  12. #3752
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    4Set(helm, chest, gloves legs)
    Off Set Shoulders from norushen
    Norushen Neck
    Legendary Cloak
    Spoils Bracers
    IJ Waist
    galakras Boots
    Thok + Klaxxi Rings
    Immerseus + Dark Shamans/Garrosh Trinkets
    spoils wand/garrosh offhand


    im fairly sure this is the bis list , but it really comes down to what you prefer as the value of haste and crit is about equal where haste edges out on aoe and crit on single target from what ive been told, anything that maximizes the amount of mastery you have is the way to go.
    It's about the same compared to mine. Except I favor haste, where you favor crit.
    Imho haste just “feels“ better, as it fastens your gameplay. Apart from that mastery/haste is better if you want to play other specs from time to time.
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  13. #3753
    well, i wouldnt exactly say i favor crit but the list is a bit more crit heavy than haste but you'll still have a fair amount of haste, sadly i cant get a wf hc version of the garrosh offhand or wand and have to settle for a hc wf versions of the IJ offhand and nazgrim sword so i do end up with quite a lot of haste as well currently sitting on 10,7k haste and as you say, it does have the advantage of being able to freely switch between specs, change a couple of items and have the haste breakpoints for afflic without needing to reforge. the value between crit and haste is certainly close enough that it comes down to preference what you take.

  14. #3754
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    4Set(helm, chest, gloves legs)
    Off Set Shoulders from norushen
    Norushen Neck
    Legendary Cloak
    Spoils Bracers
    IJ Waist
    galakras Boots
    Thok + Klaxxi Rings
    Immerseus + Dark Shamans/Garrosh Trinkets
    spoils wand/garrosh offhand


    im fairly sure this is the bis list , but it really comes down to what you prefer as the value of haste and crit is about equal where haste edges out on aoe and crit on single target from what ive been told, anything that maximizes the amount of mastery you have is the way to go.
    Both the HWF shoulders off protectors and the boots off shaman have over 100 mastery more each (before upgrades, which increase the differential) than the pieces you listed. The protector shoulders have 2x blue gemslots instead of 1red and 1 blue. the boots have a blue gemslot while the galakras one's have a yellow, but the bonus is only 60 hit and not worth going for.

    Remember that in BiS gear EVERY piece has mastery on it, and you will easily hit cap anyway, so trading that 60 hit for a full mastery gem is a no-brainer as any reforged hit only becomes haste or crit anyway.

    TLDR: The piece with the most mastery will be BiS for destro, the rest of the total stats you have (hit + haste + crit + expertise) is just a reforging excercise.

  15. #3755
    well if you get hitcapped so easily anyway, then the hit on the protector shoulders is sort of a waste, arent they? you also need to ask your self how much of that hit can you reforge out of if your over hitcap but i can see your point with the boots tho, but it comes down to what you prefer imo, some ppl prefer the haste over the crit.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2014-06-24 at 08:27 AM.

  16. #3756
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    In the end it's not a topic worth fighting for, as the DPS differences after reforging propably are somewhere beneath or around 1%
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  17. #3757
    Quote Originally Posted by Melian View Post
    In the end it's not a topic worth fighting for, as the DPS differences after reforging propably are somewhere beneath or around 1%
    oh for sure, not fighting though, just discussing .

    @Almara, i actually have the protectors shoulders and shaman boots. I also have the HWF norushen bracers (which have Hit and a tad less mastery) instead of the Spoils bracers. Even with an extra piece with hit on it I'm still able to reforge off enough hit to stay right at hit cap even with 2x haste + hit gems in the shoulders. As Melian points out it's not a big deal overall, but i just think someone posted that rime-rift were BiS at start of the tier out of fear of the hit, but I've found in practice that isn't a problem.

    As a secondary i also prefer haste over hit, even with the shaman boots i end up about 12k-ish haste and 5k-ish crit, which feels ok to me (maybe slightly too heavy on haste if anything)

  18. #3758
    you're right, it isnt really going to be a big deal overall, the dps difference isnt going to be big enough to make any noticable difference.

  19. #3759
    The Patient Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    Are ilvl upgrades like a HWF Ashflare Pendant better then H Untainted Guardian's Chain? or HWF Juggernaut's Power Core vs H Revelations of Y'Shaarj?

    Main:Paarthurnax | Alt:Peijing | <Huge in Japan> 14/14H US#16
    “Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.”
    --Littlefinger

  20. #3760
    Quick question if I may. Is Burning Primal still ahead of Sinister atm?

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