1. #621
    There is no real stat prio for destruction. You can either follow simulationcraft (last time i checked it's reforgeplots were telling me to go crit=>haste>mastery, with no real stat stacking) or think about the stats yourself for certain fights. Crit allows you to generate more embers, mastery buffs those embers. Any cleave or multitarget fight make those two stats pull ahead.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    I have 2/2 upgrade Yu'lon, 496 unupgraded EoT and LFR Wuusholay's. I can buy SPA trinket. Which combo?
    I woudl go with LFR Wuush and SPA trinket

  3. #623
    Great guide man! Helped me a lot!

  4. #624
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Hi.

    I'm gonna do my first trial run in a fresh guild tonight, and I want to make the best impression possible. They have downed Jin'rokh, and will start progress on Horridon today. I presume I get a trial spot, and if I do I'll want to be as informed as possible. Thus, I got some questions.

    1. For the Jin'rokh fight, I've always gone Destruction GoSac, because I assumed the damage boost meant that CB and SB would scale far beyond what a pet could do. This I'm not certain of anymore. Also, I assume I'll have much less uptime on the buff I get from the water because of Ionization, and am wondering if this means that GoSac is not a viable choice.
    2. What pet? The Observer seems to always move behind the boss, but there's not necessarily always water there. And in some cases, there'll be bad water behind the boss I assume. If this is the case, would the safer bet be to go Imp+Gosup, or hope the Observer doesn't derp too heavily and stands in the wrong kind of water?
    3. I've always saved Doomguard for when the boss is low, but how fast does he drop? Should I save it for the 4th waterpool? Or will he likely be dead before then?

    For Horridon, I also have some questions.

    1. I've heard a mastery gemmed and forged GoSac is best there, and I am fairly certain that is what I will play. However, I've also heard the damage requirements there are immensely high, but that the adds are the deciding factor. Any tips for how to play this? I've tried to snipe Shadowburns with havoc on Horridon, but I can't always get more than 1 SB through that havoc for various reasons.
    2. The Direhorn that spawns from the call ability, will it only interact with me? If it goes through a group of melees on its way to me, will it kill them?

    Thanks in advance.
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  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post

    For Horridon, I also have some questions.

    1. I've heard a mastery gemmed and forged GoSac is best there, and I am fairly certain that is what I will play. However, I've also heard the damage requirements there are immensely high, but that the adds are the deciding factor. Any tips for how to play this? I've tried to snipe Shadowburns with havoc on Horridon, but I can't always get more than 1 SB through that havoc for various reasons.
    2. The Direhorn that spawns from the call ability, will it only interact with me? If it goes through a group of melees on its way to me, will it kill them?

    Thanks in advance.
    1. Keep working on sniping burns on Havoc. What I try to do is to have a havoc ready whenever he smashes into a gate, because at that point everyone is focusing on aoe-ing multiple adds which should give you more than enough time to snipe 3 burns off the different adds that are being aoe'd. When dpsing a gate, if there are less than 6-7 adds up, I try to immolate all and put up RoF (using mannoroth's fury). The insane ember regen will allow you to spam chaos bolts either on the adds or the boss (what's needed the most). If there are 6 or more adds up, the damage per ember will be higher with FnB incinerate/conflags. If you find yourself ember capped, don't be afraid to use backdrafts for CBs or FnB conflags etc.

    2. The dire horn spirit only interacts with you and cannot harm anything else but you, in any way. The best way to deal with this is to make a CoE target macro as CoE knocks it back and has a very low GCD. Otherwise you can position yourself so that your FnB spells hit it in addition to the mobs, as this will also push it back. A mouse-over macro for felflame/CoE might also be helpful.

  6. #626
    Just a quick question - is Simcraft fairly accurate with their T14 set bonus calculations? I have a choice of either wearing: 496 shoulders/509 pants for T14 4-piece, or I can sub in 510 shoulders and 535 pants to break it. Sims say it's about a wash overall for single target - any advice from others who have dropped the 4-piece on how much it hurts?

  7. #627
    Why hello Alarinth :3

  8. #628
    Hello there, Alarinth. Didn't we meet in ToT LFR the other day? You were a worthy competion, if I remember you correctly. :-)

    Also, I have a question about stats. We all probably know that the current single/cleave stat weights shows that haste=crit>haste. Does that mean, for max DPS, that you wan't to balance haste and crit, or you can go either haste or crit followed by mastery.

    Let's have haste=a and crit=b. We know, that haste equals crit, therefore a=b. The way I'm understanding that is you can either go a=b (haste=crit), 2a (full haste) or 2b (full crit), because the simcrafts imply that if a=1 and therefore b=1, a+b=2 (stacking haste and crit and balancing them out), but 2a=2 or 2b=2. So you are getting the same result with either stacking only haste, only crit or combining them together. My worry is, and I know that because I study economy, that the value of a variable decreases (be it marginal utility or haste) as the amount of variable increases.

    This is important, because with haste only or crit only builds, there's room for some mastery, which still has its uses and is particulary important on fights where either most of your damage comes from ember consumers (Priomordius) or where you have some kind of buff you can CB under (Breaker).

    Following this logic, I've gone for haste>mastery, but I'd like to know your opinion on wheter my logic (and therefore my reforge) is right or wrong.
    Last edited by Rivio; 2013-03-27 at 03:16 PM.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    ...
    Hello there, Alarinth. Didn't we meet in ToT LFR the other day? You were a worthy competion, if I remember you correctly. :-)

    Also, I have a question about stats. We all probably know that the current single/cleave stat weights shows that haste=crit>mastery. Does that mean, for max DPS, that you wan't to balance haste and crit, or you can go either haste or crit followed by mastery?

    Let's have haste=a and crit=b. We know, that haste equals crit, therefore a=b. The way I'm understanding that is you can either go a=b (haste=crit), 2a (full haste) or 2b (full crit), because the simcrafts imply that if a=1 and therefore b=1, a+b=2 (stacking haste and crit and balancing them out), but 2a=2 or 2b=2. So you are getting the same result with either stacking only haste, only crit or combining them together. My worry is, and I know that because I study economy, that the value of a variable decreases (be it marginal utility or haste) as the amount of variable increases.

    This is important, because with haste only or crit only builds, there's room for some mastery, which still has its uses and is particulary important on fights where either most of your damage comes from ember consumers (Priomordius) or where you have some kind of buff you can CB under (Breaker).

    Following this logic, I've gone for haste>mastery, but I'd like to know your opinion on wheter my logic (and therefore my reforge) is right or wrong.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivio View Post
    Following this logic, I've gone for haste>mastery, but I'd like to know your opinion on wheter my logic (and therefore my reforge) is right or wrong.


    The simcraft stat weights are only for a specific slice of stats i.e. if you get haste=crit>mastery and then reforge entirely to crit and sim yourself again, you will likely see different stat weights. If you really want to see how they interact with each other as the values change, you should make stat plots and see how one stat's value varies against another as it increases/decreases. You will likely find that if you have haste=crit>mastery and you take that to mean haste>mastery and ignore crit, that you will have lower DPS. You have some choice around which you have more of, but in general you should try to keep them similar if their stat weight is the same.

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Hi.

    I'm gonna do my first trial run in a fresh guild tonight, and I want to make the best impression possible. They have downed Jin'rokh, and will start progress on Horridon today. I presume I get a trial spot, and if I do I'll want to be as informed as possible. Thus, I got some questions.

    1. For the Jin'rokh fight, I've always gone Destruction GoSac, because I assumed the damage boost meant that CB and SB would scale far beyond what a pet could do. This I'm not certain of anymore. Also, I assume I'll have much less uptime on the buff I get from the water because of Ionization, and am wondering if this means that GoSac is not a viable choice.
    2. What pet? The Observer seems to always move behind the boss, but there's not necessarily always water there. And in some cases, there'll be bad water behind the boss I assume. If this is the case, would the safer bet be to go Imp+Gosup, or hope the Observer doesn't derp too heavily and stands in the wrong kind of water?
    3. I've always saved Doomguard for when the boss is low, but how fast does he drop? Should I save it for the 4th waterpool? Or will he likely be dead before then?

    For Horridon, I also have some questions.

    1. I've heard a mastery gemmed and forged GoSac is best there, and I am fairly certain that is what I will play. However, I've also heard the damage requirements there are immensely high, but that the adds are the deciding factor. Any tips for how to play this? I've tried to snipe Shadowburns with havoc on Horridon, but I can't always get more than 1 SB through that havoc for various reasons.
    2. The Direhorn that spawns from the call ability, will it only interact with me? If it goes through a group of melees on its way to me, will it kill them?

    Thanks in advance.
    Jin'rokh:

    1. GoSac is viable, as is GoSup. Just reforge appropriately. Ionization happens about 30 seconds-ish after the tank gets thrown. (hint: you can dispel yourself with Unending Resolve up) That won't be the reason for not having uptime on the puddles. The whole having to kite the lightning thingy will, especially if you have a raid full of melees.

    2. Pets are fine and get the buff you get every without being in the puddles themselves. Pets have their own dmg reductions.

    3. Gauge it as nobody else will really be able to. If the boss is nearly dead or ultra low going into the 4th puddle, then obviously pop the DG earlier. It's going to be based on how fast your raid is killing it.

    Horridon:

    1. Lotsa CB! If adds are dying really quick (yay?) then make sure there's not more than one add sub 20%. If there is, clip clip clip. You don't *need* 1001 SBs to do stellar damage. Just 1001 CB! =P

    2. Direhorn is only on individuals and nobody else will be able to see yours. It's a pain to deal with.

  12. #632
    Guys i got a question,I'm currently running with Lotc hc non upgraded and cha-ye,My int is kinda low since I dont have int on any of those trinkets(currently 16685int)I'm wondering,I also got EoT normal 2/2 upgraded,maybe it would be better to swap LotC for EoT since its gonna give me quite a lot of int?I'm playing demo/destro,tonight I think I'll go destro for Jinrokh hc and Horridon hc progress.

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

    Ionization happens about 30 seconds-ish after the tank gets thrown. (hint: you can dispel yourself with Unending Resolve up) That won't be the reason for not having uptime on the puddles.
    ??? explain what you mean here? how does dark resolve allow you to dispel yourself in the puddle? does not compute

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by yalin View Post
    There is no real stat prio for destruction. You can either follow simulationcraft (last time i checked it's reforgeplots were telling me to go crit=>haste>mastery, with no real stat stacking) or think about the stats yourself for certain fights. Crit allows you to generate more embers, mastery buffs those embers. Any cleave or multitarget fight make those two stats pull ahead.
    I am finding the same thing for GoSupp. If you sim single target then you get crit>haste>mastery, as you add targets in the sim you get mastery>haste>crit. Since even in multi target fights you often need to burn a single target the best balance I have found thus far is haste=crit=mastery, with mastery slightly ahead, and stacking as much int as possible.

  15. #635
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    ??? explain what you mean here? how does dark resolve allow you to dispel yourself in the puddle? does not compute
    with Unending Resolve up
    He meant you should use Unending Resolve before dispelling yourself to lower the damage.
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  16. #636
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumble View Post
    Why hello Alarinth :3
    Haha, well.. So much for first impressions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivio View Post
    Hello there, Alarinth. Didn't we meet in ToT LFR the other day? You were a worthy competion, if I remember you correctly. :-)
    And hi Rivio! Yes it was, good times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    Jin'rokh:

    1. GoSac is viable, as is GoSup. Just reforge appropriately. Ionization happens about 30 seconds-ish after the tank gets thrown. (hint: you can dispel yourself with Unending Resolve up) That won't be the reason for not having uptime on the puddles. The whole having to kite the lightning thingy will, especially if you have a raid full of melees.

    2. Pets are fine and get the buff you get every without being in the puddles themselves. Pets have their own dmg reductions.

    3. Gauge it as nobody else will really be able to. If the boss is nearly dead or ultra low going into the 4th puddle, then obviously pop the DG earlier. It's going to be based on how fast your raid is killing it.

    Horridon:

    1. Lotsa CB! If adds are dying really quick (yay?) then make sure there's not more than one add sub 20%. If there is, clip clip clip. You don't *need* 1001 SBs to do stellar damage. Just 1001 CB! =P

    2. Direhorn is only on individuals and nobody else will be able to see yours. It's a pain to deal with.
    Thanks for your advice, I believe it helped.
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  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    with Unending Resolve up
    He meant you should use Unending Resolve before dispelling yourself to lower the damage.
    Personally I save UR for the lightning dance and use Sac Pact to mitigate the damage while dispelling with Unbound Will.

  18. #638
    my point was he claimed he we could mazimize uptime in the puddle, yet i see no way we can stay in the puddle and remove ionization, we have to run out no matter what, unless someone knows something i dont. also wouldnt it be best to just let ionization expire and make sure you run out before it blows? seemed to me to lose a lot of uptime running out during my highest dmg in the puddle when you can just let the ionization debuff run out to nothing, it seems to wear off right as he is about to start lightning storm so at that time your leaving the puddle anyway to start the 'dance'. no need to dispel anything
    Last edited by weakdots; 2013-03-27 at 07:24 PM.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by weakdots View Post
    my point was he claimed he we could mazimize uptime in the puddle, yet i see no way we can stay in the puddle and remove ionization, we have to run out no matter what, unless someone knows something i dont. also wouldnt it be best to just let ionization expire and make sure you run out before it blows? seemed to me to lose a lot of uptime running out during my highest dmg in the puddle when you can just let the ionization debuff run out to nothing, it seems to wear off right as he is about to start lightning storm so at that time your leaving the puddle anyway to start the 'dance'. no need to dispel anything
    Who claims they can stay in the puddles with Ionization? I simply assumed people know the mechanics enough to at least know what to do when you get it. =P

  20. #640

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