1. #1801
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    France, Illidan-EU
    Posts
    1,743
    It might be good compared to other classes, but it clearly sucks compared to Demo on Council, DA, IQ, Lei Shen...
    I mean... there are several pages of Demo locks who are all above the first Destro on those fights :P
    NEW Android App : World of Quizzcraft
    Test your knowledge of WoW with more than 1100 questions and 80 achievements!

    Web Apps : Deaths Analyzer, WoL Timeline, Megaera Dps Calculator
    WoW-Heroes

  2. #1802
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    To be clear even at 550 item level there is no fight destro sucks on.

    Jin - ye . .
    Horridon - Dont see the problem here
    Council - Huge sustained damage with all the ember gen
    Tortos - Aoe is monstrous and can be done while getting bounced around
    Megaera - Extra ember gen, shadowburn embers from adds
    Jikun - Damage buff and aoe
    Durumu - No need for statement
    Primo - Same as above
    Destro - Depends on strat, but i see no reason why destruction is bad here
    IQ - Mostly single target which keeps destruction down a bit, but you can make fancy use of the burn phase
    Twins - Extra embers, good aoe, havoc burn
    Lei shen - Aoe is sick for the balls, mobile execute
    Raden - Same comment as Jin

    You cant make statements as broad as above when people are asking for advice, if you actually try to play the spec well it is incredibly strong (mostly due to Rof ember gen), you will one in every 5 pulls get better numbers as demo 'IF' your trinket procs, if you wanna play that game then go enjoy.

    Bottom line, while we still have rain of fire with the 5.3 mechanics destruction is perfectly viable on every boss in Tot.
    I suppose I should clarify that I'm not saying that Destruction is bad on any fights in ToT and is worse than most other classes. I am however saying that Destro is behind Aff and Demo when played at the same skill level on most fights in ToT.

    At this point in 5.2/5.3 it's the exact same situation as 5.0/5.1. Destro isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination when compared to all classes. When compared to Aff/Demo it does fall behind (hence the "stupid" comment.)

    Also, just like in 5.0/5.1, if you enjoy Destro and don't have the same skill level/personal enjoyment when playing the other two specs, you'll probably pull more damage as Destro than you could as the other specs. When talking about people with the same skill level (relative to the spec's skill cap) with all 3 specs Destro does fall behind.

  3. #1803
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    It might be good compared to other classes, but it clearly sucks compared to Demo on Council, DA, IQ, Lei Shen...
    I mean... there are several pages of Demo locks who are all above the first Destro on those fights :P
    Playing wow is like playing follow the leader, whichever spec 'Does more dps' is what people play, even if its only a chance at more damage due to getting lucky on a trinket proc (for the record i hope that trinket drowns in hell next tier and that demo plays the way it was supposed to in 5.4, which is not having an army of imps to dps for you).

    Like blizzard say aswell, more people play the spec, more numbers.

    I would never expect destruction to compete when another spec is playing with an unintended mechanic, the exact same way that no one was able to compete with 5.1 arcane mages because shocker, they were using an unintended mechanic.

    This is not to say that what brusalk wrote above is wrong, Destruction is behind (not by the amount it gets exaggurated to be but it is behind) and the only reason it has been able to survive so well in Tot is because so many fights are cheesable with Rof ember regen, with this gone. . . well bring on the 5.4 tuning ive needed a good laugh for ages.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-08-11 at 11:37 PM.
    Heroic SoO progress 14/14
    Warlock armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AD/advanced

  4. #1804
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    To be clear even at 550 item level there is no fight destro sucks on.
    Council - Huge sustained damage with all the ember gen
    IQ - Mostly single target which keeps destruction down a bit, but you can make fancy use of the burn phase
    Twins - Extra embers, good aoe, havoc burn
    Most I agree, but I would never, ever play Destro on those three unless we're really overgearing fights. Council 'should' be Destro strong fight (Havoc, 4 targets to cleave RoF), but ends up around 100k overall dps behind both Affli and Demo. Iron Qon, the most important phases are pull (Destro favorite...) where in melee clump strat you want to kill Roshak asap, and p4, where yeah, Destro will get some of it's dps boosted, but so will Demo with pooled fury and Dark Soul/Service. And for Twins, Lul'lin damage is irrevelant, neither is adds damage which can be just passivly cleaved (Demo also got fury gain from those). By far most important is to bring Suen fast both p2 and 3, and that's pure single target.
    Last edited by Nivrax; 2013-08-12 at 11:13 AM.

  5. #1805
    I think destro has lost its way in terms of what its good at or why you would take it somewhere. You can blame demo's synergy w' UVLS or aff's hardon for the legendary meta but in many situations its a case of whatever destro can do someone else does better. I don't see anything in SoO that would really change that just yet.

    Numbers wise (yes I know, numbers pass) destro went from ahead at 520-530 to behind by 535 when it was getting 30% more embers than intended even from 1x target. When you hit 550+ilvl the gap keeps widening by an increasing rate. I'm not saying the RoF thing shouldn't change...it should. Just that they need to work the mechanics so the spec gets more from haste. To not make any fixes to help the mechanics it makes the numbers pass harder to do accurately. That and things like the 4xT16 set bonus scaling inversely with ember generation due to its ICD. It would also seem MF needs to get F&B on it or it will never be a good talent for destro since other specs do not lose half their aoe toolkit.

    I feel like at its core destro should be about the nukes and about burst...especially cleave or controlled burst. Again here is where other specs (even without UVLS) like demo just dominate it in terms of controlled damage increase or aoe burst.

  6. #1806
    Destruction will be nice in 5.4. - they will find a way to compensate ember generation in a useful way for us. In my eyes RoF 2 keep up all time was nice, but most warlocks out there don´t sadly ...

    It was the same as melee lock in cata with shadowflame to optimize dps, nice playstyle and even different to mages as a melee. Remember all locks were put in melees position for max dps and the QQ & °_° from other classes was awesome. Forget to mention improved soulfire, why in the hell they remove all mechanics that are not so cheasy-easy to master?!?!

    Why not just buff grimoire:sac again and triple effect ember gen from immo and conflag? I don´t fucking understand ...

    :/

  7. #1807
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    It would also seem MF needs to get F&B on it or it will never be a good talent for destro since other specs do not lose half their aoe toolkit.

    I feel like at its core destro should be about the nukes and about burst...especially cleave or controlled burst. Again here is where other specs (even without UVLS) like demo just dominate it in terms of controlled damage increase or aoe burst.
    well adding FnB to MF would make destro utterly insane for aoe and if there is one area where destro is fine, its aoe so adding FnB to MF isnt really an option unless they greatly reduce the 100% bonus dmg from MF for FnB i cant see it as a viable change.

    personally, i would love a or 2 glyph that would change backdraft from haste buff to crit or mastery buff, depending on which glyph you use as it would allow for better haste scaling. also a fix for the reduced ember generation from RoF could simply be baked into backdraft as well, something like "while backdraft is up, spells and abilities affected by it, will generate twice the normal amount of ember" dunno if that will bring the ember generation too high but it is a possibility atleast.

  8. #1808
    Hey all, longtime listener, first time caller. So be gentle.

    I'm looking for opinions from people who've dabbled in the PTR (which I have not), which offspec do you intend to use in conjunction with destro? Destro is my first love but with the RoF nerf I expect there will be 5.4 fights where it's just not viable. What are other people planning for an offspec to compliment destro on the 5.4 raids?

  9. #1809
    Quote Originally Posted by Coggles View Post
    Hey all, longtime listener, first time caller. So be gentle.

    I'm looking for opinions from people who've dabbled in the PTR (which I have not), which offspec do you intend to use in conjunction with destro? Destro is my first love but with the RoF nerf I expect there will be 5.4 fights where it's just not viable. What are other people planning for an offspec to compliment destro on the 5.4 raids?
    Probably Demo for me.

    Of course, it depends on the balancing they do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    well adding FnB to MF would make destro utterly insane for aoe and if there is one area where destro is fine, its aoe so adding FnB to MF isnt really an option unless they greatly reduce the 100% bonus dmg from MF for FnB i cant see it as a viable change.

    personally, i would love a or 2 glyph that would change backdraft from haste buff to crit or mastery buff, depending on which glyph you use as it would allow for better haste scaling. also a fix for the reduced ember generation from RoF could simply be baked into backdraft as well, something like "while backdraft is up, spells and abilities affected by it, will generate twice the normal amount of ember" dunno if that will bring the ember generation too high but it is a possibility atleast.
    Considering that Destro doesn't have unlimited embers from AoE RoF anymore, I don't think FnB being included w/ MF would be any sort of OP.

  10. #1810
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Probably Demo for me.

    Of course, it depends on the balancing they do.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Considering that Destro doesn't have unlimited embers from AoE RoF anymore, I don't think FnB being included w/ MF would be any sort of OP.
    Destro is extremely good at AoE on the PTR, so I'd say it just might. I can think of several fights where I'll be playing Destro for Heroic progression.

  11. #1811
    The Patient Furtylol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Lonely Mountain
    Posts
    349
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    To be clear even at 550 item level there is no fight destro sucks on.

    Jin - ye . .
    Horridon - Dont see the problem here
    Council - Huge sustained damage with all the ember gen
    Tortos - Aoe is monstrous and can be done while getting bounced around
    Megaera - Extra ember gen, shadowburn embers from adds
    Jikun - Damage buff and aoe
    Durumu - No need for statement
    Primo - Same as above
    DA - Depends on strat, but i see no reason why destruction is bad here
    IQ - Mostly single target which keeps destruction down a bit, but you can make fancy use of the burn phase
    Twins - Extra embers, good aoe, havoc burn
    Lei shen - Aoe is sick for the balls, mobile execute
    Raden - Same comment as Jin

    You cant make statements as broad as above when people are asking for advice, if you actually try to play the spec well it is incredibly strong (mostly due to Rof ember gen), you will one in every 5 pulls get better numbers as demo 'IF' your trinket procs, if you wanna play that game then go enjoy.

    Bottom line, while we still have rain of fire with the 5.3 mechanics destruction is perfectly viable on every boss in Tot.

    Edit - Spelling mistake
    There's no fight it 'sucks' on but there are quite a few fights where the other specs take a pretty distant lead.

  12. #1812
    The RoF change makes sustaining aoe very hard as destro. Even with 5 targets you seem to bleed out embers faster than you make them so you might only get a few casts off unless you had mass enemies. That would be "fine" in MF under most circumstances. I still like the idea of spellweaving for RoF to buff its aoe while not doing anything for single target while taking F&B out of the game. (possible minor buff to havoc at the same time)

  13. #1813
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    France, Illidan-EU
    Posts
    1,743
    Why would you want FnB out of the game ? This might be the thing that worked the best for the spec since the revamp, you really would want to go back to the crappy AoE we used to have :|
    NEW Android App : World of Quizzcraft
    Test your knowledge of WoW with more than 1100 questions and 80 achievements!

    Web Apps : Deaths Analyzer, WoL Timeline, Megaera Dps Calculator
    WoW-Heroes

  14. #1814
    When it comes to the pure dps classes its hard to have 3 speccs that is all good.
    Compared to other classes i would say warlocks as a hole is the best one of them because we atleast can change specc depending of the fight.

    If we compare all our 3 specc trees with mages, hunters, rogues and so on i would say the difference between our 3 is less when it comes to other classes.

  15. #1815
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Considering that Destro doesn't have unlimited embers from AoE RoF anymore, I don't think FnB being included w/ MF would be any sort of OP.
    its too early to tell tho as the balancing isnt over. Blizz can easily give back the 30% ember generation that was lost through something like what i suggested in the post you quoted but i do agree tho, if destro doesnt get the ember generation back that they lost, then its prolly not OP assuming they cant utilize MF completely, but it will be extremely OP to add FnB to MF if they could utilize it 100%. it comes down to whether or not destro needs it, and they just dont need it.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-08-17 at 12:22 AM.

  16. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by Goosy View Post
    When it comes to the pure dps classes its hard to have 3 speccs that is all good.
    Compared to other classes i would say warlocks as a hole is the best one of them because we atleast can change specc depending of the fight.

    If we compare all our 3 specc trees with mages, hunters, rogues and so on i would say the difference between our 3 is less when it comes to other classes.

    Let's not let good be the enemy of perfect.



    or something like that...

  17. #1817
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Let's not let good be the enemy of perfect.
    But that's what WoW players do ... "It's not exactly what I want therefore it's utter garbage"

  18. #1818
    hi quick question about trinkets. I'm on ilvl 490, pretty much only LFR. all trinkets are LFR as well. so far I've been running with Flashfrozen Resin Globule(hit passive, 4k int on use), and Light of the Cosmos. I won Essence of Terror and UVLS this week as well. so my question is, what's the best combo to use here? I'm thinking Light of the Cosmos+UVLS since they should be the highest value procs, right? or is UVLS even worth it on my ilvl as opposed to the on-use effect of Flashfrozen Resin Globule?
    and then, if I use UVLS, would I do anything different for my rotation? like with the 4 sec proc, I can squeeze in 1 CB, is that what I am aiming for? or should I refresh Immolate instead for the 100% crit for more embers?
    thanks for any help.

  19. #1819
    I just cast an Immolate when my UVLS procs as Destruction, rarely do I have the time to react and cast a Chaos Bolt before the trinket proc is gone.

    Hmm, and I would personally go with Light of the Cosmos and Essence of Terror. But then again I don't really like UVLS.

  20. #1820
    Quote Originally Posted by sayulol View Post
    hi quick question about trinkets. I'm on ilvl 490, pretty much only LFR. all trinkets are LFR as well. so far I've been running with Flashfrozen Resin Globule(hit passive, 4k int on use), and Light of the Cosmos. I won Essence of Terror and UVLS this week as well. so my question is, what's the best combo to use here? I'm thinking Light of the Cosmos+UVLS since they should be the highest value procs, right? or is UVLS even worth it on my ilvl as opposed to the on-use effect of Flashfrozen Resin Globule?
    and then, if I use UVLS, would I do anything different for my rotation? like with the 4 sec proc, I can squeeze in 1 CB, is that what I am aiming for? or should I refresh Immolate instead for the 100% crit for more embers?
    thanks for any help.
    I'd use LotC & UVLS. While UVLS isn't as good as some of the other ToT trinkets for Destro, it is roughly the same with what you'd expect for it's iLevel.

    As for what to use during UVLS, an Immolate (full pandemic) is roughly the same as getting a Chaos Bolt off. If you only have one target you can choose to do either. If you have more than one target try and get as many Immolates up as you can, and prepare to spam Chaos Bolts until those Immolates fall off.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •