1. #1741
    Quote Originally Posted by glenton View Post
    Hey all, my character is Chãos EU Kazzak.
    I rarely get beaten on metres and I never lose to demo locks.
    Your Demo lock might need to slightly l2p then. My 1st Council normal (2nd now :<) as Destro is 286k. Went next week in Demo spec, messed a bit on opener, our mage didn't get right Combustion (= longer fight), still clocked 374k dps, and that's barely r39. Thanks for advice, but I'd rather follow someone in with 13/13 experience with ton of kills of Ra-Den already than measly 5/13.

  2. #1742
    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    It's not just theoratically. Keeping RoF up isn't hard, and not be 'bothered' is a strange thing imo. Plus, it's much easier to switch between specs with a healthy amount of haste.
    Actually Keeping up Rof has some huge downsides aswell because even though at extreme haste levels you can just 'make sure its down all the time' clipping it causes you to lose potential embers and because your haste can vary from application to application its not always possible to land the reset exactly as the last one ends, seen as i only play destruction (reason for playing warlock) i dont actually see any damage increase on the majority of boss's with haste because with them being so gimmicky for the most part Crit's value is actually much much higher when cleaving shadowburn / or on burn phases.

    So yes in practice in 'ToT' because of the nature of the fights Crit is probably as strong (stronger?) on the majority of encounters and as the numbers i have posted above show they dont really lack on the low ember fights either.

    Heroic SoO progress 14/14
    Warlock armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AD/advanced

  3. #1743
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    So yes in practice in 'ToT' because of the nature of the fights Crit is probably as strong (stronger?) on the majority of encounters and as the numbers i have posted above show they dont really lack on the low ember fights either.
    Or you can look at it this way: in ToT, having haste over crit is stronger because you'd want to play a different spec than destro on most fights.

  4. #1744
    True, if you play different specs.

    Heroic SoO progress 14/14
    Warlock armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AD/advanced

  5. #1745
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    This is what we call anecdotal evidence. I'm happy for you that you are performing well, but so are the other people at the top of the meters, and many of them have put some time into theorycrafting more deeply than "Ur damage comes from chaos bolts".
    In review I agree that the post may have came across short-sighted and narrow-minded. I apologize for this I should have taken time and care rather than brashly writing it on my phone on the way home from work. I agree with you you have said biomega and believe me my comments of being dumb and the like were meant in a light-hearted jest rather than the ignorant childish nature they came across.

    I have read back a few pages and haven't seen many crit related topics, only mentions of the benefit from haste. I thought I would add in my experience from low haste and high crit. It was not meant as a "only way to play" post, far from it, I in fact am looking to play with higher haste (around 8k) and wanted to weigh up the differences for both, my reason for posting. Again I realise how my post came across and apologize.

    As you stated the main differences are in the "pure" single target fights Jinrohk, Durumu ect Crit builds are weaker than haste builds because of the lack of mobs to generate embers through aoe rotation and the lack of options for cleaving and high havoc hits. High crit builds excel in the other extreme fights such as tortos HC Primordius ect, due to the great havocd chances and endless embers. But where do we go mid way? The fights where there are phases of both, Twin consorts for example has a lovely 20% below havoc + shadowburn phase at the end which makes high numbers easy with high crit, but the endless slog of ember starvation from the build in the first phases of the fight.

    Do we reforge and regem every fight for highest dps, or do we play an OS. If OS is the answer is demo our only choice?
    Affliction for single target fights and destro for cleaves is the way I want to play but is that possible, does going for the first haste breakpoint in affli still make destro good in cleave situations playing with 8k haste?

  6. #1746
    Quote Originally Posted by glenton View Post
    In review I agree that the post may have came across short-sighted and narrow-minded. I apologize for this I should have taken time and care rather than brashly writing it on my phone on the way home from work. I agree with you you have said biomega and believe me my comments of being dumb and the like were meant in a light-hearted jest rather than the ignorant childish nature they came across.

    I have read back a few pages and haven't seen many crit related topics, only mentions of the benefit from haste. I thought I would add in my experience from low haste and high crit. It was not meant as a "only way to play" post, far from it, I in fact am looking to play with higher haste (around 8k) and wanted to weigh up the differences for both, my reason for posting. Again I realise how my post came across and apologize.

    As you stated the main differences are in the "pure" single target fights Jinrohk, Durumu ect Crit builds are weaker than haste builds because of the lack of mobs to generate embers through aoe rotation and the lack of options for cleaving and high havoc hits. High crit builds excel in the other extreme fights such as tortos HC Primordius ect, due to the great havocd chances and endless embers. But where do we go mid way? The fights where there are phases of both, Twin consorts for example has a lovely 20% below havoc + shadowburn phase at the end which makes high numbers easy with high crit, but the endless slog of ember starvation from the build in the first phases of the fight.

    Do we reforge and regem every fight for highest dps, or do we play an OS. If OS is the answer is demo our only choice?
    Affliction for single target fights and destro for cleaves is the way I want to play but is that possible, does going for the first haste breakpoint in affli still make destro good in cleave situations playing with 8k haste?
    I've said before that crit isn't a bad stat. It's as good as Haste on single target (but never better). On 2 targets it's the same, however once you get more than 2 targets Mastery pulls ahead and stays ahead forever. Once you get 2 RPPM trinkets then Haste is slightly better than Crit, but not by much.

    On fights where you have some parts with single target, and some with AoE, I will go for more damage in whatever part of the fight needs damage done. I go a full mastery build on Lei Shen even when it's largely a single target fight, because the ball damage matters way more than boss damage. On other fights, like Twin Consorts, I will go full Haste/Crit as, while there's adds to AoE, single target damage is more important.

    For ranking you'll do more overall damage with improving your cleaving/AoE. But on progression ranking hardly matters.

  7. #1747
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I go a full mastery build on Lei Shen even when it's largely a single target fight, because the ball damage matters way more than boss damage.
    Hey,

    Sorry to jump in on your discussion, but I had a couple of doubts about lei shen in heroic. My guild is depending on me to kill the orbs fast, I'm supposed to be the top damage on them. So far I've been playing demo there, and I haven't been exactly doing bad with it, but looking at lei shen kill logs, destro seems to outperform demo on the orbs, and given that I don't even have UVLS, I thought I might give destro a shot.

    One of the questions I was gonna ask you already answered, which is going full mastery (even with goSup right?).
    The other one is, should I bother with the 4 piece tier? I have the chance of using hc tf gloves from tortos and hc tf chest from ji-kun.

    I would normally simulate my char to answer this questions myself, but I don't have enough simcraft knowledge to recreate lei shen conditions, which are ofc different from single target, and I didn't want my results to be skewed.

  8. #1748
    Quote Originally Posted by Sepharoth View Post
    Hey,

    Sorry to jump in on your discussion, but I had a couple of doubts about lei shen in heroic. My guild is depending on me to kill the orbs fast, I'm supposed to be the top damage on them. So far I've been playing demo there, and I haven't been exactly doing bad with it, but looking at lei shen kill logs, destro seems to outperform demo on the orbs, and given that I don't even have UVLS, I thought I might give destro a shot.

    One of the questions I was gonna ask you already answered, which is going full mastery (even with goSup right?).
    The other one is, should I bother with the 4 piece tier? I have the chance of using hc tf gloves from tortos and hc tf chest from ji-kun.

    I would normally simulate my char to answer this questions myself, but I don't have enough simcraft knowledge to recreate lei shen conditions, which are ofc different from single target, and I didn't want my results to be skewed.
    My guild doesn't do anything special with the balls, so I use MF+Destro and basically kill the orbs by myself with our Brewmaster helping. If your guild is doing a DK-Grip+Burst AoE Demo is better, but if not I'd say Destro is better.

    I don't bother using the 4pc partially because I still don't have 4 pieces of Heroic tier, and also because 2 HC TF pieces with Mastery on them will be better than the set bonus by far.

  9. #1749
    Should I go with pure intellect gems on red sockets? Looking at destro locks in top guilds they seem to go with mas/int gems instead.

  10. #1750
    Run Simcraft and check stat weights. If 2 * Mastery > Int, then go with Mastery gems. If not, stick with Int gems.

  11. #1751
    Going to help out my guild on raden next week with my alt lock, was told destro is optimal due to anima orb damage. What sort of gearing would be best for this, atm im playing demo/aff with 9778 haste then all rest mastery, would this work fine for raden, also how does sac vs service/sup work out for this fight?

    Also trinket wise I have heroic breath UVLS and normal Wooshoo, Ive been messing around with UVLS and it seems hard to get much more than a CB off inside the proc, would putting up immolate be better for 100% crit ember generation?
    Last edited by Opeth69; 2013-07-19 at 12:55 AM.

  12. #1752
    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    Going to help out my guild on raden next week with my alt lock, was told destro is optimal due to anima orb damage. What sort of gearing would be best for this, atm im playing demo/aff with 9778 haste then all rest mastery, would this work fine for raden, also how does sac vs service/sup work out for this fight?

    Also trinket wise I have heroic breath UVLS and normal Wooshoo, Ive been messing around with UVLS and it seems hard to get much more than a CB off inside the proc, would putting up immolate be better for 100% crit ember generation?
    GoSac with mastery stacking.

  13. #1753
    Hi there. i'm not in a heroic situation at all with my warlock. he is an alt, doing lfr. but i want to play a good as possible and i have some question about ilvl and the value of haste.

    first of all, here is the army link
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cohex/advanced

    as you can see i have a raid finder headpiece and a raidfinder chestpiece but also a hc sz headpiece and chest. but with lesser haste and i would miss the 2 piece bonus. so is there any value how i can say if i take the higher ilvl over haste or a 2 piece bonus.

  14. #1754
    Quote Originally Posted by glenton View Post
    In review I agree that the post may have came across short-sighted and narrow-minded. I apologize for this I should have taken time and care rather than brashly writing it on my phone on the way home from work.
    Why are you texting and driving?

  15. #1755
    Quote Originally Posted by slickwilly View Post
    Why are you texting and driving?
    Because #Yolo

  16. #1756
    Super Moderator xskarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slickwilly View Post
    Why are you texting and driving?
    Yes, cause there's nothing like Public Transport or anything.

    Let's adress his post, rather then his traveling habits please.
    Attack the Argument, not the Person ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  17. #1757
    Been reading these forums for a while just wanted to say a big thanks to Brusalk and Evralia for all the tips guides and willingness to share there xp! Hope you guys find the time in 5.4!

  18. #1758
    Blademaster Shadowone's Avatar
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    A higher item level doesn't means it's going to be more dps.

    The 2 pc bonus is really nice I would have to see what the other items are before I would saying to drop the 2 pc bonus for them.

  19. #1759
    this weeks upcoming farm want to play around with destro, have 543 versions of wush,uvls,breath,chayes. whats the best combo right now? will be using a haste=mastery build

  20. #1760
    Epic!
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    I would go with Wushooo and Breath, but you can wait for the complete calculations of Brusalk
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