1. #3861
    Quote Originally Posted by Valq View Post
    Do it yourself then, its not like it takes much effort.
    I'm new so it wont let me post the link, but I have uploaded a log to world of logs, against a target dummy as raid isn't until this evening and I wasn't taken yesterday so I don't have a guaranteed spot this week.

    Dentarg-EU, Tempted, Nephthys
    Last edited by Nephthys-EU; 2014-08-28 at 08:17 AM.

  2. #3862
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthys-EU View Post
    I'm new so it wont let me post the link, but I have uploaded a log to world of logs, against a target dummy as raid isn't until this evening and I wasn't taken yesterday so I don't have a guaranteed spot this week.

    Dentarg-EU, Tempted, Nephthys
    You can also log from a flex or LFR raid you do. Your DPS will be entirely relative to the environment, but things like spell usage, debuff uptimes, etc are still there.

  3. #3863
    Quote Originally Posted by Toastiekins View Post
    You can also log from a flex or LFR raid you do. Your DPS will be entirely relative to the environment, but things like spell usage, debuff uptimes, etc are still there.
    Ok thanks will jump into a flexi/normal pug now and log it.

  4. #3864
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Please don't use World of Logs. It's broken and outdated and nobody uses it anymore.

    Upload to Warcraftlogs instead.

  5. #3865
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Please don't use World of Logs. It's broken and outdated and nobody uses it anymore.

    Upload to Warcraftlogs instead.
    Well what I just did was an entire waste of time then, I'm asking for help and you couldn't of told me that first? I'm new to all this logging and things this is the first time I have ever raided seriously with a guild.

    I got the other one and all I am doing now is lagging when trying to log a fight. I do have to play on a laptop as my boyfriend uses our desktop due to being our guilds tank.
    Last edited by Nephthys-EU; 2014-08-28 at 09:40 AM.

  6. #3866
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthys-EU View Post
    Well what I just did was an entire waste of time then, I'm asking for help and you couldn't of told me that first? I'm new to all this logging and things this is the first time I have ever raided seriously with a guild.

    I got the other one and all I am doing now is lagging when trying to log a fight. I do have to play on a laptop as my boyfriend uses our desktop due to being our guilds tank.
    Just reupload the log? You don't need to live log if it's lagging you. Get into game, type /combatlog and then upload via the warcraft logs client, which you can download on their website.

    No need to get antsy about it, we'll endeavour to help you best we can, and warcraft logs really is far, far superior.

  7. #3867
    I still can't post links but I uploaded it to warcraft logs. I haven't set up my guild yet so its just my personal logs but it isn't private so I'm assuming you can search for me.

  8. #3868
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthys-EU View Post
    I still can't post links but I uploaded it to warcraft logs. I haven't set up my guild yet so its just my personal logs but it isn't private so I'm assuming you can search for me.
    Just paste the link with breaks, spaces and so on, its much easier that way, I can't actually find any recent logs of you by searching your name on WCL.

  9. #3869
    warcraftlogs.
    com
    /reports
    /fzjvy2rx37kZX4FN

    That's the link, I was just a quick flexi PT 1

  10. #3870
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthys-EU View Post
    warcraftlogs.
    com
    /reports
    /fzjvy2rx37kZX4FN

    That's the link, I was just a quick flexi PT 1
    Well, I'm on my phone right now, but there's 2 things I immediately noticed from taking a real quick look at your sha;

    - You have low immolate uptime on the boss
    - You used only 2 Dark Souls, while you could have used 3 if you were rolling with KJC, and 4 if you used AD.

    Both these issues are a significant dps loss, you really should have much higher immolate uptime, preferably with the 4p snapped, and you should line up DS with every expanded mind proc, since they have more or less the same CD on them.

    I'll get access to a laptop soon and take a more in depth look and add to this.

  11. #3871
    Quote Originally Posted by Valq View Post
    Well, I'm on my phone right now, but there's 2 things I immediately noticed from taking a real quick look at your sha;

    - You have low immolate uptime on the boss
    - You used only 2 Dark Souls, while you could have used 3 if you were rolling with KJC, and 4 if you used AD.

    Both these issues are a significant dps loss, you really should have much higher immolate uptime, preferably with the 4p snapped, and you should line up DS with every expanded mind proc, since they have more or less the same CD on them.

    I'll get access to a laptop soon and take a more in depth look and add to this.
    Yeah I forget about both of them a lot, I do use weakaura's now but I'm still getting used to it and probably missing a lot of proc imports still.

  12. #3872
    Blademaster Tumor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthys-EU View Post
    warcraftlogs.
    com
    /reports
    /fzjvy2rx37kZX4FN

    That's the link, I was just a quick flexi PT 1
    Just went through Sha of Pride.

    - As said above your Immolate uptime is low. You got 72.52%, aim for 95% +
    - You have missed 1-2 Dark Soul depending if you used AD or KJC. You could have used one Dark Soul when your Expanded Mind procced second time. Dark Soul CD is 2 min and Expanded Mind ICD is 115 seconds. Try to line these two always. You don't have any procs up when you use Dark Soul second time.

    - You have missed second potion or rather you' haven't prepotted. You should use potion before you go into combat, so you can use another one during the combat.
    - You'r procs doesn't really line up. Use Dark Soul either at the beginning or when the Expanded Mind procs. It usually procs in the opener, but sometimes it can be little bitch and make you wait for it. Anyway you have popped Dark Soul (and used potion) around ~5 seconds from the start of the encounter. You have Wrath proc up at that time. You don't snapshot immolate with Dark soul and Wrath, instead you go with Conflagrate + Incinerate spam. High Wrath stacks are more valuable than Expanded Mind proc for Chaos Bolt. You could have cast at least one here + snapshot Immolate. You cast Chaos Bolts when Expanded Mind procs, which is okay since you still have Dark Soul up.

    - You'r opener is bit messy. Around ~2 secs to the fight you cast Curse of the Elements and after that Immolate. This leads me to believe that you don't precast before combat. You could start fight 3 seconds before the pull: use Prepot --> Incinerate --> Immolate and then go onward with normal rotation applying CoTE.
    -You have applied CoTE multiple times during the encounter. Since the duration of encounter is less than 5 minutes those have been wasted global cooldowns.

    -Using RoF on small adds is good, but you have randomly pressed it to Sha of Pride also. RoF on single target is only worth it if you have really high haste and you need to generate embers fast.
    - You haven't used havoc during the encounter. There is two situations where I prefer to use it. One is when the little adds go sub 20% health, cast Havoc to the boss. If you're lucky you can get 3x Shadowburns to the adds meaning 3x Shadowburns to the boss. Also you gain 3 embers. Second is when the big add spawns, cast Havoc to boss. You can cast Havoc CB to or if you can time it right 2x Inc/Conf + SB.
    Last edited by Tumor; 2014-08-30 at 04:57 PM.

  13. #3873
    Quote Originally Posted by Sadtumor View Post
    Dark Soul CD is 2 min and Expanded Mind ICD is 155 seconds.
    I just want to clarify - Expanded Mind is actually 115s ICD, and Dark Soul is 120s, so they'll almost always be up together without having to hold the Dark Soul.

  14. #3874
    Blademaster Tumor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asuhariet View Post
    I just want to clarify - Expanded Mind is actually 115s ICD, and Dark Soul is 120s, so they'll almost always be up together without having to hold the Dark Soul.
    Ah thank you, had a little brain fart there. I meant little bit under 2min with my 155 seconds.

  15. #3875
    Is the Stat priorities still up to date including today? And how accurate are those stat priorities for you guys? Should i be valuing Haste = Mastery? Or should I be putting Mastery ahead of Haste? Icy Veins says Mastery should be slightly more valued than both crit and haste...where as this guide says for highest dps to value Mastery = Haste. Any insight would be super helpful!

  16. #3876
    So noob questions here, I recently switched from a monk to a lock which I'm going to main come mythic WoD. Its my first caster, and I've got a lot of questions because I'm still pretty sh1tty and know I could be doing a lot more.

    First, gearing: I know mastery>haste>crit (or mastery>crit>haste depending on preference/slight dps increase, but at the moment I'm going toward haste for ability to switch to an OS). I have a heroic 4 set. I have a heroic PBI upgrade to 582, I have a normal KTT upgraded to 569, and a heroic BBoY that I just got, non upgraded. Is it worth upgrading and using the BBoY over waiting for KTT to drop (nobody else in group needs it) when I have plenty of other stuff to upgrade? Should I be using 582PBI+569KTT? 582PBI+566BBOY? Should I upgrade BBOY?

    Second, how to spend embers/holding for procs/building them.

    There is another lock in my group who just started gearing his lock doing about the same dps, despite the fact that I have 15 ilvls on him. He's obviously doing something more right then I am. He claims he doesn't pool embers, and never has more then 1-2. He spends them right when he gets a 4 set proc, and doesn't attempt to pool for trinkets, and just spends what he has when trinkets pop. Should I be doing that too if I'm running 4 set? I'm curious to know if he's simply doing a better job of not capping/wasting embers (I know thats an area I need to work on and improve) or if there really is something to spending a CB ever 4 set proc. Is his way better, or is mine better and I'm just doing a bad job at accomplishing it?

    As far as opener goes on say, heroic garrosh, my (attempted, still getting the hang of this) opener goes:
    Prepot
    4.5s before pull I cast RoF where boss will be pulled through.
    Incinerate
    Immolate (hits as boss is pulled)
    Curse of Elements
    2x conflag
    RoF
    DS
    4x immo
    2x CB
    1x immo before procs wear off

    At this point mentally, I go into a normal rotation/priority of:
    Never have 2 stacks conflag up and use backdrafts on incinerate/don't CB with 3+ stacks on conflag up
    Keep immo up (do i want to wait for the very last second if it was cast with procs and I will be refreshing it without procs?)
    keep RoF up for ember gen (this part is a royal PITA and feels like I have to be doing it wrong, hopefully somebody will tell me I am and that I should only be doing it on pull for building embers fast enough to get 2x CB's off while procs are up)

    Build up to ~3.x embers then unload one, repeat until big procs hit, pop DS and unload all. Repeat until boss dies, replacing CB with SB's at <20%

    Questions:
    - RoF - do I need to keep it up for singletarget or only useful on pull for ember gen and getting those CB's and one last immo off before procs drop?
    - Should I be spending more embers on 4set procs and not pool embers?

    Tricks for improving that i'm trying to work on: boss havoc + SB's on low adds + pooling embers or a DS to unload at key moments in a fight (such as empowered crawler mines or bats on thok).

    I'm also struggling a lot on multitarget fights like protectors and doing puny numbers like 350k (which, as a 575 destro lock, I feel is pretty awful since we do the stack and burn all evenly), and I hear a lot of conflicting advice about how to do paragons.

    Protectors: Aside from havoc, Warlocks don't really have a cleave ability. With 3 targets, I don't want to be FnB'ing ever (I think).
    - Is it worth using FnB to quickly dot up the adds that spawn during intermission, since we typically have all three boss intermissions going at once and are stacked up in middle? Adds die pretty quickly there, but there are usually 5-6 adds up at any given time.
    - I should be spending my havoc during that phase on one of the outer adds so I can SB the little ones when they get low, right?
    - Do I want to keep immo up on all three boss targets for the entire fight? I lose a lot of inc casts by doing that, and feel like I'm not pushing AoE anymore then I would singletarget.
    -I assume RoF is important to keep up for ember gen on that fight since we keep all three bosses stacked.

    Onward to other bosses. H Paragons has also been giving me some trouble. On that fight, my DPS actually drops significantly as compared to what I do in a more singletarget fight. I'm not big on padding, in fact it bothers me to no end to see people padding like crazy when its a raid dps loss where it counts. However, I get that the more immo and RoF ticks you have going out, the more embers you build and the more chaos bolts there are to go out, so I'm not opposed to padding where I can bring about a single target DPS increase. Places that I could see padding being worth it to bring about more single target:

    Havoc on one of the non target bosses, use havoc to throw out an immo+2x inc.

    FnB+immo+RoF when parasites are out for more embers, before switching back to single target on rikal.

    Same deal as protectors - is it worth keeping immo+RoF up on multiple targets without a havoc spread once swarmkeeper is down and they tend to be more stacked up? Just RoF?

  17. #3877
    Quote Originally Posted by Tato23 View Post
    Is the Stat priorities still up to date including today? And how accurate are those stat priorities for you guys? Should i be valuing Haste = Mastery? Or should I be putting Mastery ahead of Haste? Icy Veins says Mastery should be slightly more valued than both crit and haste...where as this guide says for highest dps to value Mastery = Haste. Any insight would be super helpful!
    Mastery is better than haste. I am not sure entirely what part you are looking at but this is from Brus's post right at the top.

    Grim of Sac: Mastery > Haste == Crit
    Grim of Serv/Sup: Haste==Crit > Mastery
    (For the record in almost all cases you should be using GoSac, there are some exceptions though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killface1 View Post
    -snip-
    566(582) BBOY vs 569 KTT - The problem with the BBOY is that if you have to move or do some sort of mechanic when you get the proc you aren't going to be able to use Chaos Bolts w/ it and it renders the entire proc useless. I am hesitant to say use the 569 KTT because the proc is going to be significantly lower (int/sp-wise) but you are likely going to get more chaos bolts out of it on average. BBOY is just really hit or miss when you have to sit still for 1.8-2.4 seconds just to use it.

    ---

    Pooling Embers - Do you happen to have logs that are available to the public that you can either post here or private message to me so I can take a look at them? The way I generally handle embers is I hover around 3 to 3.5 embers and when I get a 4pc proc I use one with my 4pc. That isn't to say I use a CB w/ every 4pc but if you get a 4pc proc you can easily get a Chaos Bolt as well as an Immolate/Incinerate in with it. I don't know your exact gear level but I am assuming it is somewhere in the ballpark of 580-582 which means you can easily get to about 3 embers with your ember generation and stabilize for usage with trinkets and 4pc. Unless you are going to cap at 4 embers there is no reason to ever put yourself @ 0-1 embers unless you have a ton of procs such as KTT/PBOI/DS/etc all up.

    ---

    Opener:
    There isn't much of a reason to RoF there the second time as the adds aren't even out yet and it doesn't proc your PBOI. This is generally my opener for Heroic Garrosh:

    *Dark Soul is used the moment I get my PBOI proc
    Pre-Prot + Incinerate
    Immolate
    Conflag (X1) - The reason I prefer to use 1 is that you can use second and possibly third on the adds for instant ember generation.
    Incinerate (x3)

    By this point the adds are starting to run out and you want to prepare for that by dropping your first rain of fire and putting Havoc on Garrosh to Shadowburn cleave (assuming your guild just aoe's the crap out of the first wave and they get to 20% almost instantly)

    When the adds are out my rotation is:
    *keep rain of fire down

    FnB Immolate (most procs are still up at this point)
    FnB Incin/Conflag 2-3 times (to generate embers)
    Shadowburn (x3) on 3 different adds w/ them Havoc'd to the boss
    Chaos bolt the crap out of the boss

    ---

    Questions:
    RoF - I don't think there is any merit to currently keeping RoF up on single target full time.

    4pc vs Pooling- You should do both. Depending on gear level it shouldn't be hard to outpace your 4pc's internal cooldown.

    Protectors:

    Immolate- I generally keep immolate on the 3 main bosses. When they all disappear I put it on 3 other targets, generally the ones that are going to die the slowest so I don't need to keep reapplying Immolate. I just have a mouseover Immolate bind that I made for that fight and Protectors which make it so I don't need to constantly swap my target for immolate. The lost incinerates (which is only like 3 every 10-15 or so seconds depending on procs that make you reapply immolate are worth it because you generate so many more embers with those immolates and ember cap very quickly which lets you do more Chaos Bolts and Shadowburns/Havoc's.

    Use Rain of Fire here....a lot.

    FnB- The only time I think there is any reason to FnB is inside the big AMZ thing with all the little adds and that is almost entirely padding).

    Protectors is essentially the same as Paragons except with different mechanics. Keep Immo up on multiple downs, keep RoF down, spam Chaos Bolt before you ember cap but still follow the rules of not burning all your embers without procs. Use 1, wait for procs, about to cap again? Use another, wait for procs.
    Last edited by Novx; 2014-08-30 at 08:37 PM.

  18. #3878
    Quote Originally Posted by Novx View Post
    Pooling Embers - Do you happen to have logs that are available to the public that you can either post here or private message to me so I can take a look at them?
    Yep: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...done&source=16

    Rest of logs should be public, but Spunkeez-US Runetotem is the toon. Ilvl is 575. As far as Garrosh goes, were going 1 intermission. During malice, I'm part of group that spawns an ironstar during 2nd and damage on boss can get a little bit tricky during the spread phase after that, and I was the unlucky guy who got picked for malice 4, but for all intents and purposes I should normally be able to have uptime on him. I feel like my dps should be closer to 350-360 given my ilvl, it feels like there is a ton of room to improve.

    For opener, I'm not really confident but I saw a few locks doing it in videos and it seemed like it was giving them 2 extra emberbits so I thought I'd give it a try. I timed it wrong in our kill, but timing shit doesn't concern me as much as fundamental lapses in play, since timing will come with practice, where practicing bad habits and terrible play isn't going to get better if I don't figure out what I'm doing wrong right now. Great news on RoF though, since I cast it 37 times. That'll be a massive number of globals freed up to do something more useful at clutch times.
    Last edited by Killface1; 2014-08-30 at 10:28 PM.

  19. #3879
    Quote Originally Posted by Killface1 View Post
    Yep: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...done&source=16

    Rest of logs should be public, but Spunkeez-US Runetotem is the toon. Ilvl is 575. As far as Garrosh goes, were going 1 intermission. During malice, I'm part of group that spawns an ironstar during 2nd and damage on boss can get a little bit tricky during the spread phase after that, and I was the unlucky guy who got picked for malice 4, but for all intents and purposes I should normally be able to have uptime on him. I feel like my dps should be closer to 350-360 given my ilvl, it feels like there is a ton of room to improve.
    Before I go any further I just have a quick question

    Is there a reason that you seem to be using GoSup at almost all times? The only fight that I use GoSup on is Thok with an Imp out and even in that scenario it can be argued that GoSac is better.

  20. #3880
    Quote Originally Posted by Novx View Post
    Before I go any further I just have a quick question

    Is there a reason that you seem to be using GoSup at almost all times? The only fight that I use GoSup on is Thok with an Imp out and even in that scenario it can be argued that GoSac is better.
    conflicting advice I guess. First page of the guide suggested goSup was a dps inc over sac, so I've been using that. Doing it wrong I take it? Sadly we don't have any other locks in the guild to tell me I'm being a tard and help me learn other then the one I mentioned before, but he's a recruit and the class is relatively new to him too.

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