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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    True.

    Its going to be difficult enough to come up with a reason for the Alliance to play nice with the Horde rebels as it is. There's been no obvious set up for that yet AFAICS.

    EJL
    Like I said earlier the Alliance could be breaking the siege. They would land on the beach near Orgrimmar or launch an attack from Ashenvale (revenge of the Night Elves, yay!). The Horde would be sending a unit (the raid group) to weaken the siege. The bosses would be the same, only the trash and some secondary objectives would be different. Also, the Alliance would not be handing back the keys of Orgrimmar to the Horde, since they would already hold them. The Horde is not humiliated to owe the Alliance their capital city and the Alliance would be in good position to negociate some land back from their allies of convenience... Both win!

    In the other hand, it would be badass to break through Orgrimmar and kill Garrosh in that throne room... Also, the blues did say that Varian would ask not to kill civilians, which would make no sense if the Alliance is breaking Garrosh's siege, since there would be no civilians there to kill in the first place. Of course that was even before MoP was launched, so they could change that.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You have a bad definition of the horde then. Hasn't the lessons in the story meant to have taught people anything? The old horde died out in the end and the alliance beat them because for all there bluster and brovado, they were weak at there core, and were doomed to fail because so much of the old horde walked the bad guys road.
    And the current Horde still does. For all Thralls bluster about peace, honor, the wisdom of the elders and so on, the simple truth is that Orcs form the heart and soul of the Horde because they form the vast majority of its people, and most of those Orcs were raised in the traditions and beliefs of the old Horde; yes...that included the beliefs of the Shaman but it also included the beliefs and traditions which formed the core of the old Horde.

    Many followed Thrall out of gratitude and respect. But many turned form him and follow Garrosh now. And they have re-embraced the traditions and beliefs and practises of the old Horde. Practises which the human raised Thrall doesn't really agree with.

    What does all this mean? There are very few differences between the old horde and the new Horde and what differences there were arise not because the new and old Horde are different, but because Thrall used to be their leader. The old Horde was the original and it acted in a manner very much like the current Horde under Garrosh. It too made use of other races other than Orcs, including Goblins and Trolls. It too had honorable individuals and paid attention to the wisdom of their elders. And it too was little more than a savage war machine.

    Thrall attempted to remake the Horde, to change its heart and soul. And the evidence we have to date shows he failed. Garroshes Horde is truer to the orignal vision, truer to the heart and soul of the Draenic Orcs. Thrall had an impact, but not enough.

    EJL

  3. #63
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Its going to be difficult enough to come up with a reason for the Alliance to play nice with the Horde rebels as it is. There's been no obvious set up for that yet AFAICS.
    Eh, there's been a bit. In Tides of War, Varian is quite aware of the discontentment in the Horde, and banks his strategy on the notion that these elements will rise up and rebel when the Alliance hits Orgrimmar. If not, then he says he'll have to occupy the city himself.

    Also, in the last 5.2 scenario, Theron and Jaina agree to a ceasefire and realize they're on the same page when it comes to the Horde's current regime.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And the current Horde still does. For all Thralls bluster about peace, honor, the wisdom of the elders and so on, the simple truth is that Orcs form the heart and soul of the Horde because they form the vast majority of its people, and most of those Orcs were raised in the traditions and beliefs of the old Horde; yes...that included the beliefs of the Shaman but it also included the beliefs and traditions which formed the core of the old Horde.

    Many followed Thrall out of gratitude and respect. But many turned form him and follow Garrosh now. And they have re-embraced the traditions and beliefs and practises of the old Horde. Practises which the human raised Thrall doesn't really agree with.

    What does all this mean? There are very few differences between the old horde and the new Horde and what differences there were arise not because the new and old Horde are different, but because Thrall used to be their leader. The old Horde was the original and it acted in a manner very much like the current Horde under Garrosh. It too made use of other races other than Orcs, including Goblins and Trolls. It too had honorable individuals and paid attention to the wisdom of their elders. And it too was little more than a savage war machine.

    Thrall attempted to remake the Horde, to change its heart and soul. And the evidence we have to date shows he failed. Garroshes Horde is truer to the orignal vision, truer to the heart and soul of the Draenic Orcs. Thrall had an impact, but not enough.

    EJL
    You're forgetting that most of the orcs that are following Garrosh are young and ambituous or are from other clans who relish in brutality, like Malkorok; unlike the old veterans like Saurfang, who lived to see and do horrors of the pre and 1st war; and now have to live with those memories for the rest of their lives.

    Yes, orcs were/are savages, but before the Ligion's arrival they were never genocidal warmongerers.
    Last edited by Turmoill; 2013-03-07 at 01:03 AM.
    Thanks a bunch for the Signature, Cthulhu Ftagn.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Urti View Post
    But isn't Thrall currently on the Echo Isles WITH the Darkspear, while Vol'jin is in Pandaria?

    Wouldn't it be a trip if Thrall and the Darkspear retake Org while Garrosh is in Pandaria, and the "Siege of Orgrimmar" is actually us INSIDE the city holding off GARROSH'S siege? Each boss being another attempt by Hellscream to gain access to the city, by unleashing different weapons/forces upon it's walls. I don't think it will, but it would be a twist from what everyone's expecting.
    To be quite honest, you just blew my mind, that would be amazing. Might be a little Mt. Hyjal-like which I know some people thought was a snore fest since it was just trash waves with little actual travel. But I can see that being really fun for orgrimmar!

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jshadow View Post
    You're forgetting that most of the orcs that are following Garrosh are young and ambituous or are from other clans who relish in brutality, like Malkorok; unlike the old veterans like Saurfang, who lived to see and do horrors of the pre and 1st war; and now have to live with those memories for the rest of their lives.

    Yes, orcs were/are savages, but before the Ligion's arrival they were never genocidal warmongerers.
    Genocidal? No. But they weren't...and this is the part many people gloss over - they weren't peaceniks either. They were and are a warrior culture. A culture where strength ruled and was respected. Many of the practises of their Clans were nothing short of what we would call savage and barbaric. Many took what they needed and the "Strong Survive while the weak perish" and "Might makes Right" mentality was very much part of their society.

    There isn't all that much difference between the Orcs Clan of Draenor, the "old" Horde and the new Horde. They all have savage elements. They all have barbaric elements. They all have warlike elements. And they all have honorable elements. All that really changes between them is in what direction the leaders points.

    EJL

  7. #67
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadee View Post
    I'm not looking forward to this patch at all..
    You are so negative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Transorcers, Warlords in disguise.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  8. #68
    I actually don't think it'll be too hard for the Alliance to be brought in on this. I'm betting they'll focus on bringing back Jaina's peaceful side through interactions with Thrall, and directing all her fury at Garrosh in particular. The Horde is probably going to mostly distance itself from Garrosh, who will be turning into such a threat to Azeroth that the Alliance will not be able to stand by idly.

    And it doesn't have to stop at the death of Garrosh. Sure, his death will lead to the appointing of a new Warchief that could unite the Horde. But the Alliance don't have to and shouldn't sit by and watch them do so. I don't have total faith in the story writers, but what they should do is have the Alliance turn around and hit the Horde when they're at their weakest, having just deposed their leader and about to enter the ensuing power struggle. Then the Legion fall from the sky and patch 6.0 hits.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You have a bad definition of the horde then. Hasn't the lessons in the story meant to have taught people anything? The old horde died out in the end and the alliance beat them because for all there bluster and brovado, they were weak at there core, and were doomed to fail because so much of the old horde walked the bad guys road.

    The true horde is the one that bound itself together under an oath of brotherhood with misbegotten races, one that held real value to things like honor and wisdom of the elders. This horde is one that has never been defeated, because even now with the cancerous elements of Garrosh's horde infecting it, the real spirit of the horde is now rising up against him, you see it with the darkspears, with the blood elves, and soon with every other horde race.

    Garrosh's horde is just a reflection of those following the worst example without caring for anything they do, acting without any morality, and think there entitlement extends to everything.
    Actually the Horde only lost the second war because Doomhammer decided to break off the Siege of Lordaeron to track down Guldan after his treachery, thus allowing the Alliance to regroup and eventually push them back to Blackrock Mountain. They didn't lose because they were weak at the core, but oddly enough because Doomhammer chose honor over victory, deciding that Guldan had to be brought to justice.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  10. #70
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    I didn't think him saying that was a spoiler.

    We knew Vol'jin was starting a rebellion, and we knew he was going to act against Garrosh before the Siege of Orgrimmar patch (obviously).

  11. #71
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    He has no crimes to answer for. He led the Horde peacefully for years and saved the world. One lapse in judgement of someone as close as a brother's son is not something that he should answer for in the slightest. I would assume, however, Thrall would fight beside Vol'Jin
    Ah yes so peacefully that the Forsaken murdered a bunch of druids in ashenvale and his forces murdered dwarven diggers in 1k needles.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 09:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarl Balgruuf View Post
    3 pages and no one has asked about a source.
    It's his twitter everyone just went straight there.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Jshadow View Post
    You're forgetting that most of the orcs that are following Garrosh are young and ambituous or are from other clans who relish in brutality, like Malkorok; unlike the old veterans like Saurfang, who lived to see and do horrors of the pre and 1st war; and now have to live with those memories for the rest of their lives.

    Yes, orcs were/are savages, but before the Ligion's arrival they were never genocidal warmongerers.
    So we have a single generation of orcs, those who slaughtered, raped and pillaged when given the chance and eventually tired of it, being against the whole thing. While the new generation jumps at the chance to do the exact same thing all over again, this isn't really a point in the Orcs favor you know?

    Also the Orcs are genocidal at their core. They attempted genocide against the Draenei, they tried to do the same to the Alliance and as soon as they hit Kalimdor they started driving the Quilboar extinct. Also let's not forget how their immediate solution for the Alliance - Horde conflict was yet again genocide.

    The reason they didn't do it before the Legion hit was that they were to busy murdering each other, not united and underdeveloped so much they didn't pose a threat to the Draenei.

  13. #73
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    I love this idea. The poor Trolls have been stuck with that moron for such a damned long time I'm actually amazed that Vol'Jin hasn't decided to have a coup earlier. I rate Jaina becomes the next Warchief and makes Thrall her little underling.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenosege View Post
    surely Garrosh will just wipe the floor with them?
    With "heroes"(players) in the way? doubt it, we kill dragons and gods before breakfast....
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Story-wise, I like this a lot. Game design wise, it gives me visions of ToC...
    That was my first thought. But it could be more of a Battle for Hyjal-esque raid too.

  16. #76
    The alliance doesn't need more reasons than the attack from Garrosh on Anduin. Things just have to move along now.
    It can't be that we will see a lot of movement towards Garrosh in 5.3.

    With Voljin up and running again (I hope), Varian ready for action and the BE's eager to break Garrosh's rule, it is going to be hot in Azeroth.

  17. #77
    I really hope the Forsaken get some involvement soon. I know we're supposed to be mysterious and aloof but I'm sick of warming the bench while the other Horde races have their fun. I'm sure Kosak already said Sylvanas will have a part to play in the MoP conflict so lets see what she has planned unless that "part" is to simply turn up with the other Horde leaders at the siege of Orgrimmar and not really do anything.
    "Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken. Always and forever!"

    Perfection is so horribly dull, don't you think?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    I really hope the Forsaken get some involvement soon. I know we're supposed to be mysterious and aloof but I'm sick of warming the bench while the other Horde races have their fun. I'm sure Kosak already said Sylvanas will have a part to play in the MoP conflict so lets see what she has planned unless that "part" is to simply turn up with the other Horde leaders at the siege of Orgrimmar and not really do anything.
    You guys had loads and loads of lore in Cataclysm to the point of getting other races lore exclusively to you. You really can sit on the bench for a few expansions while other races who since their introduction not once or hardly at all had any kind of attention paid to them get their time in the limelight. Tauren, Gnomes, Draenei for example and Goblins, don't forget about Goblins!

  19. #79
    I am Murloc! Arrashi's Avatar
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    The more i think about it the more horrific visions i have. Brace yourself for:
    PATCH 5.3 DARKSPEAR TOURNAMENT !!!!!

    Now with more amazing features !!!
    - Poke Garrosh goons with stick... while riding a horse !!!
    - Even more amazing dailies !!!
    - Pet battle based boss !!!
    - Amazing scenario's when you help build darkspear colliseum !!!
    - Face new amazing bosses with new and unique mechanics !!! ALL IN ONE ROOM !!!
    -Collecting 100000 darkspear commendations will reward you with brand unique and new reskinned mount you will never ride anyway (exept if you that looser who rushes everything to get server first and then pretend to be afk for 12 hours straight in the middle of stormwind ) and epic vanity item that makes you speak like Vol'jin !!! AMAZING !!!
    -

    Interesting content not included*

  20. #80
    Herald of the Titans Eorayn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Story-wise, I like this a lot. Game design wise, it gives me visions of ToC...
    I liked Trial of the Crusader. And Champion for that matter.

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