Early 5.3 spoiler?

[Gimlix]

For those who forgot, Thrall is leading the capital atm, so expect Thrall being bad-ass again

[Clockwork Pinkie]

But isn't Thrall currently on the Echo Isles WITH the Darkspear, while Vol'jin is in Pandaria?

Wouldn't it be a trip if Thrall and the Darkspear retake Org while Garrosh is in Pandaria, and the "Siege of Orgrimmar" is actually us INSIDE the city holding off GARROSH'S siege? Each boss being another attempt by Hellscream to gain access to the city, by unleashing different weapons/forces upon it's walls. I don't think it will, but it would be a twist from what everyone's expecting.

If it's not done in the way the Battle of Hyjal is, aka waves, I'd love it.

[Deleted]

I hope the alliance will help them in the form of SI:7 and a small army of 7th Legion

[Wargon]

The Darkspear have very small numbers, I don't think they would stand a chance in open battle. If they start to sabotage shit? Well that is a different story.

[Drikkink]

Hey guys... did anyone mention that that guy's idea sounds a lot like Hyjal? But it really sounds like Hyjal. You know what else it sounds like? Hyjal.

I mean damn people.

Anyway, I liked the way Hyjal worked. I'd like to see another raid like it. Somehow though, I feel like they're not going to limit it to org. *shrug*

[Vesker]

You guys had loads and loads of lore in Cataclysm to the point of getting other races lore exclusively to you. You really can sit on the bench for a few expansions while other races who since their introduction not once or hardly at all had any kind of attention paid to them get their time in the limelight. Tauren, Gnomes, Draenei for example and Goblins, don't forget about Goblins!

I get what you're saying and I totally agree, we had a good bit of time in the spotlight in Cataclysm but I'm just eager to see the Forsaken do something alongside the other Horde races for a change. Most of what they did in the last expansion, apart from Garrosh's little visit in Silverpine, almost felt like they were a faction of their own instead of part of a larger one. I know that's kind of their thing "alliance of convenience" and all but it's easy to forget the Forsaken are members of the Horde.

The Darkspear have very small numbers, I don't think they would stand a chance in open battle. If they start to sabotage shit? Well that is a different story.

Shadow hunters are a Darkspear thing right? The jungle trolls are all about subterfuge.

[Deleted]

This. This reverse siege (defending the city) is interesting but it won't let the Alliance play. Therefore it is a no go!

If Thrall is inside, maybe he can bring Jaina.

@Darkspear population: Remember that Troll is one of the most popular PvE races so... yea, add the Troll raiding population to them numbers.

[Lemons]

I get tired of this same old scenario...I can already see what's happening here. Garrosh is going to get all hopped up on the Sha-juice, then the Darkspear are going to rebel, and then they're going to realize that Garrosh is too strong, then they're going to go to the Alliance. Then the Alliance is going to realize they NEED the Darkspear/Tauren/whoever-else-rebels to fight Garrosh's new super-horde, and we're all gunna team up and be all buddy-buddy.

Seriously? There's only so many times I can tolerate this same old tripe. Joining forces against the Legion, an extraterrestrial force, is fine by me. Joining up to defeat half the horde (assuming half desert to the "good side"), just makes the Alliance look like wimps.

[Ehrenpanzer]

Dave Kosak: The Darkspear tribe is about to go into open rebellion against the Warchief. We'll see just how strong they are!

I didn't think one race openly rebelling was how the rebellion would be kickstarted. surely Garrosh will just wipe the floor with them?

Pretty sure the Forsaken will join with Vol'jin pretty damn fast....IIRC Sylvannas has no love for Garrosh..at all

[Haven]

Dave Kosak: The Darkspear tribe is about to go into open rebellion against the Warchief. We'll see just how strong they are!

I didn't think one race openly rebelling was how the rebellion would be kickstarted. surely Garrosh will just wipe the floor with them?

Like in all such stories, when the good guys get pissed enough, they enter godmodу and stomp over anybody regardless of such little things as numbers, equipment, resources, morale, preparation, skill or anything. Good guys get pure luck and long-hidden artifact/forbidden technique/sealed potential uncovered.

[Black Rider]

Interesting what will Thrall do?

[Deleted]

I get tired of this same old scenario...I can already see what's happening here. Garrosh is going to get all hopped up on the Sha-juice, then the Darkspear are going to rebel, and then they're going to realize that Garrosh is too strong, then they're going to go to the Alliance. Then the Alliance is going to realize they NEED the Darkspear/Tauren/whoever-else-rebels to fight Garrosh's new super-horde, and we're all gunna team up and be all buddy-buddy.

Seriously? There's only so many times I can tolerate this same old tripe. Joining forces against the Legion, an extraterrestrial force, is fine by me. Joining up to defeat half the horde (assuming half desert to the "good side"), just makes the Alliance look like wimps.

Would you rather the raid was held on Stormwind instead?

[Matt0193]

Nah, it sounds like it'd be more like Hyjal. You wouldn't just be sitting in one place--at the very least, there are three major weak points in the city walls (the main gate, the side gate, and Ragefire Chasm), and they could have aerial attacks in various parts of the city as well.

Four; Main Entrance, Barrens Entrance, Azshara Entrance and Ragefire Chasm.

[Maxilian]

I'm not looking forward to this patch at all..

Why are all your answers like these one? i mean, so negative, like you hate everything that happens in the world :S

[Z3ROR]

But isn't Thrall currently on the Echo Isles WITH the Darkspear, while Vol'jin is in Pandaria?

Wouldn't it be a trip if Thrall and the Darkspear retake Org while Garrosh is in Pandaria, and the "Siege of Orgrimmar" is actually us INSIDE the city holding off GARROSH'S siege? Each boss being another attempt by Hellscream to gain access to the city, by unleashing different weapons/forces upon it's walls. I don't think it will, but it would be a twist from what everyone's expecting.

Isn't Vol'jin hiding somewhere after the event of the "Dagger in the Dark" scenario. That's what he said at the end. Vol'jin wanted to think Garrosh that he is killed in that cave of that scenario.
If Thrall is on Echo Isles and Vol'jin retreated also there. Then you have a powerful team to take over Orgrimmar. Vol'jin still alive the last thing Garrosh expects when the siege on Orgrimmar starts.

[Okacz]

You have a bad definition of the horde then. Hasn't the lessons in the story meant to have taught people anything? The old horde died out in the end and the alliance beat them because for all there bluster and brovado, they were weak at there core, and were doomed to fail because so much of the old horde walked the bad guys road.

The true horde is the one that bound itself together under an oath of brotherhood with misbegotten races, one that held real value to things like honor and wisdom of the elders. This horde is one that has never been defeated, because even now with the cancerous elements of Garrosh's horde infecting it, the real spirit of the horde is now rising up against him, you see it with the darkspears, with the blood elves, and soon with every other horde race.

Garrosh's horde is just a reflection of those following the worst example without caring for anything they do, acting without any morality, and think there entitlement extends to everything.

Then again, when Garrosh became a Warchief, what happened? Well, most of the orcs community cheered and were happy of having a leader that actually acts like an orcs. And most still do.

Do you want to tell me those orcs are bad? That they are wrong about what a true orc is? Nope. Thrall chose Garrosh for a leader (despite of the fact that Garrosh didn't want to become one) for one reason: Garrosh was a warchief the orcs would choose if they could. He is (or was, now he is pretty damn mad) a perfect example for an old-timer orc: courageous, brave, a bit relentless and bloodthirsty, good strategist, energic and expressfull.

Whats a true Horde then? Is it a term of the Horde thats built by Thrall, or of a Horde that Thrall decided to start by assigning Garrosh as a leader? Most Orcs are pro-Garrosh, since he is actually one of them, unlike Thrall, who alienated himself and was pretty much a half human.

[ripponesan]

But how would you explain that for Alliance side? since Siege is supposed to be a raid,meaning for both sides.Why would ally DEFEND capital city of their own enemy?

Well we had peace with thrall on the lead, and we chances are the situation will change for the better once garrosh is replaced by thrall again. At least that could be a motive for the alliance to help thrall defend against garrosh.

[Crashdummy]

It's really not, the full might of the horde would crush the trolls in less than 5 minutes.

Not really.

Taking to a RL example, USA would have crush Vietnam is we only take power into consideration.
The persians would have crushed the Spartans hard too.

Yet it wasnt like that.

Lanscape, terrain knowledge, and certain strategies can make the less powerful faction win or at least not lose that hard.

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 11:08 AM ----------

Genocidal? No. But they weren't...and this is the part many people gloss over - they weren't peaceniks either. They were and are a warrior culture. A culture where strength ruled and was respected. Many of the practises of their Clans were nothing short of what we would call savage and barbaric. Many took what they needed and the "Strong Survive while the weak perish" and "Might makes Right" mentality was very much part of their society.

There isn't all that much difference between the Orcs Clan of Draenor, the "old" Horde and the new Horde. They all have savage elements. They all have barbaric elements. They all have warlike elements. And they all have honorable elements. All that really changes between them is in what direction the leaders points.

EJL

Blizzard themselves stats that the Orcs were a peacefull shamanistic culture untill Kil Jaeden came.

[Deleted]

Then again, when Garrosh became a Warchief, what happened? Well, most of the orcs community cheered and were happy of having a leader that actually acts like an orcs. And most still do.

Do you want to tell me those orcs are bad? That they are wrong about what a true orc is? Nope. Thrall chose Garrosh for a leader (despite of the fact that Garrosh didn't want to become one) for one reason: Garrosh was a warchief the orcs would choose if they could. He is (or was, now he is pretty damn mad) a perfect example for an old-timer orc: courageous, brave, a bit relentless and bloodthirsty, good strategist, energic and expressfull.

Whats a true Horde then? Is it a term of the Horde thats built by Thrall, or of a Horde that Thrall decided to start by assigning Garrosh as a leader? Most Orcs are pro-Garrosh, since he is actually one of them, unlike Thrall, who alienated himself and was pretty much a half human.

Technically, orcs wanted a war hero to lead them, and since Garrosh was a war hero from Northrend campagin, that was that. Besides, as far as good strategist goes...need I remind you of Twilight Highlands invasion? Garrosh doesn't think, he has other people to do strategic thinking for him.

As for what TRUE Horde is? See this all comes down to 5.1 legendary again:

Is it an instrument of vengeance, hellbent to carve out a future for its people? (what Garrosh is doing)
Is it a refuge for those who need shelter, a commonwealth of the downtrodden, built for mutual support? (what Thrall wanted to build and was holding up until Garrosh)
Or is it just an alliance of convenience, a confederacy of unlikely partners free to pursue their own agendas? (hence what Loth'remar and Sylvannas have done)

[Urti]

Hey guys... did anyone mention that that guy's idea sounds a lot like Hyjal? But it really sounds like Hyjal. You know what else it sounds like? Hyjal.

I mean damn people.

Anyway, I liked the way Hyjal worked. I'd like to see another raid like it. Somehow though, I feel like they're not going to limit it to org. *shrug*

No they have. Repeatedly. And it was just some "what if" speculation on my part. But I wouldn't have it be quite that static, You'd be defending Org form multiple threats on multiple fronts, not just standing in one room while some lather/rinse/repeat cycle of trash and bosses walks through. For example, you'd fight off an aerial attack at the Zepp towers, then maybe have to run over and halt some magnataur boss at the back gate. Then you get word that Gallywix is trying to breach into RFC with some goblin siege drill, and you fight some trash mobs until you encounter Gallywix and his machine. So on and so forth with as many bosses and points of attack until finally Garrosh sends the 7th Sha against the main gate, unveiling his new weapon to the world. In the battle we stop the Sha, but the gate falls, and Garrosh steps back into Org to personally deal with the remnants of this rebellion. Then we smack him down in front of his throne room and fin. Various other bosses could be put in at other weak points in and around Org to flesh it out. You could even randomize the order so that each play through is a little different. Alliance play the part of covert aid in this idea, snuck in to bolster the rebellion forces by Varian and Jaina, who'd much rather see Thral, Vol'jin, and Baine in control than Hellscream.