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  1. #1

    Thunderforged: 25 man vs 10 man

    Cleared 8/12 tonight.

    42 items (that were not tier dropped, for the record 48 items dropped in total) dropped and 17 of them were Thunderforged. We raid in a 25 man guild. That puts our drop rate (for TF gear) at 40%. Likewise, a 10 man guild I know cleared 7/12 tonight and they got 1 Thunderforged items out of a possible 12 which puts their drop rate at an 8% drop rate. Now, if we accept that it takes 2.5x as long to gear up a 25 man then we can effectively say that a 25 man has a 40% drop chance, and the 10 man (assuming gearing) would have a 20% drop rate, almost half as much. Note: if said guild had managed to clear 8/12 and got a Thunderforged item off of their 8th kill, that would give them 2/12, a 16.66% and thus a close-to-40% drop rate.

    These are anecdotal figures, I accept that, but surely this seems a bit poor? Aren't 10 mans going to -never- see Thunderforged gear, and when they do, most of the time have Thunderforged gear go to OS/disenchant?
    Last edited by Treseme; 2013-03-07 at 02:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Pretty much, though I expect blizzard to hotfix the drop rate cause for a "rare" item 40% droprate seems a bit excessive.
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  3. #3
    I wonder if this will make guilds go back to 25-man?

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire
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    I really hate the whole thunderforged concept.. just hate to have to upgrade from 522 to 528, exact same item. More things to throw enchanting/gem money on.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    Pretty much, though I expect blizzard to hotfix the drop rate cause for a "rare" item 40% droprate seems a bit excessive.
    I said when this was announced that "rare" sounds like bullshit, it's a way to give 25 mans higher ilvl drops without making it all that obvious from the start, 30-40% sounds about right for what they are trying to achieve

  6. #6
    If we actually had even something remotely resembling 30-40% drop rate on that crap...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    I really hate the whole thunderforged concept.. just hate to have to upgrade from 522 to 528, exact same item. More things to throw enchanting/gem money on.
    Idd. Though I can somewhat get the idea behind it (ie to make normal mode bosses you farm until heroic more worthwhile x months in). I think it would be better if it was just meshed with the item upgrade system, just loot the duplicate item then use that to upgrade the item in place of valour points. Or if they're stuck on thunderforged as a concept basically do the same thing as I just suggested... onyl it gets you the thunderforged item. Current system could end up with you getting thunderforged on your first couple of kills then never see them for weeks once its on farm and its in the stage where by design your MEANT to be seeing them. As for the people who say it should be rare... I think its only designed to be rare on 10 man... that its somewhat common in 25 doesn't sound far from the intent tbh.

  8. #8
    Warchief
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    Off the first three bosses we had 2 thunderforged drop. We had 4 thunderforged drop off Turtle guy. So 6 items off 4 bosses so far.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    I really hate the whole thunderforged concept.. just hate to have to upgrade from 522 to 528, exact same item. More things to throw enchanting/gem money on.
    You act like gold is hard to get.

  10. #10
    Got 1 item out of 9 possible Thunderforged items in our 10 man last night

  11. #11
    High Overlord Ragnarohk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treseme View Post
    Cleared 8/12 tonight.

    42 items (that were not tier dropped, for the record 48 items dropped in total) dropped and 17 of them were Thunderforged. We raid in a 25 man guild. That puts our drop rate (for TF gear) at 40%. Likewise, a 10 man guild I know cleared 7/12 tonight and they got 1 Thunderforged items out of a possible 12 which puts their drop rate at an 8% drop rate. Now, if we accept that it takes 2.5x as long to gear up a 25 man then we can effectively say that a 25 man has a 40% drop chance, and the 10 man (assuming gearing) would have a 20% drop rate, almost half as much. Note: if said guild had managed to clear 8/12 and got a Thunderforged item off of their 8th kill, that would give them 2/12, a 16.66% and thus a close-to-40% drop rate.

    These are anecdotal figures, I accept that, but surely this seems a bit poor? Aren't 10 mans going to -never- see Thunderforged gear, and when they do, most of the time have Thunderforged gear go to OS/disenchant?
    So you're trying to infer the drop rate of Thunderforged items using 2 raid samples? Statistically that's just wrong.... Anyhow it would make sense that 25 man gets Thunderforged loot 2.5 times more than 10 man.

  12. #12
    don't more items drop per kill, per raid member in 25man?

    that means it takes LESS time to gear up a 25man raid.


    either way, sounds like your 25man got a lucky this week, and your 10man got unlucky.

    i would expect the drop rate to be roughly equal overall. though i wouldn't be surprised if 10man got a raw deal again.

  13. #13
    Got 2 (or 3, not 100% sure) Thunderforged from first 3 bosses killed in 10 man. 33% drop chance for us.

  14. #14
    We had 1 Thunderforged drop from each boss we killed last night(first 3) along with a few from bonus rolls. This was on 25man.

  15. #15
    We haven't seen any trash drops or Thunderforged items in our 10man and we are 8/12n.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    don't more items drop per kill, per raid member in 25man?

    that means it takes LESS time to gear up a 25man raid.


    either way, sounds like your 25man got a lucky this week, and your 10man got unlucky.

    i would expect the drop rate to be roughly equal overall. though i wouldn't be surprised if 10man got a raw deal again.
    That's what I was thinking as well, it's faster to gear a 25 man group and you'll end up DE'ing a lot less loot. My 10 man group didn't see a single Thunderforged item yesterday and to add to the durp, the Elder Charm bugged for me. Used a coin but got nothing - not even gold. Not saying that 30g is worth crying about but who knows if I would have gotten an item, had it not bugged.

    Anyways, Thunderforged seems to be a 25 man treat - which I guess it was kinda meant to be. But they do have to look at the drop rates between the 2 sizes imo. 10 man suffers enough from RNG already.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    don't more items drop per kill, per raid member in 25man?

    that means it takes LESS time to gear up a 25man raid.


    either way, sounds like your 25man got a lucky this week, and your 10man got unlucky.

    i would expect the drop rate to be roughly equal overall. though i wouldn't be surprised if 10man got a raw deal again.
    That isn't how it works. 10 and 25 are NOT supposed to be getting the same droprate on thunderforged, it was SPECIFICALLY implemented to bring a bigger draw to 25s, because they were dying. So no, you could not expect the drop rate to be equal.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    don't more items drop per kill, per raid member in 25man?

    that means it takes LESS time to gear up a 25man raid.


    either way, sounds like your 25man got a lucky this week, and your 10man got unlucky.

    i would expect the drop rate to be roughly equal overall. though i wouldn't be surprised if 10man got a raw deal again.
    (I think.. ) Official statement is that 10 man has 1/4th of the dropchance compared to 25 man.
    So for instance, if a 25 man gets 100 loots / week and 25 of those are thunderforged, then a 10 man would get 40 loots a week and 3 of those would be thunderforged.

  19. #19
    We're on Ji-Kun, of the previous 5 bosses, only ~12 items were not thunderforged. It seemed like we were getting a bit lucky, but that lucky? I doubt it.

  20. #20
    I believe in 25 man every boss drops 2 thunderforged items. That's afaik from what we have killed.

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