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  1. #21
    For the most part, I do feel like resto is pretty weak in 10man until we get our 4 piece. As of now we can only get close to other healers if we actually get to utilize our healing rain. Fights like council and ji-kun are pretty shitty for us since people are usually spread out. Can't really say much until we get 4 piece though. I went from the main healer in my guild to the swing healer, since resto is only really good for utility. Lowering the mana cost of healing rain is nice for the fights we actually get to use it, but we're still below paladins, priests, and monks right now.

  2. #22
    Fluffy Kitten Puupi's Avatar
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    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111


    I guess this "proves" my feelings on the issue. I hope Blizzard addresses this quickly so we can be competetive healers next wednesday when the heroics open...
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by suffeli View Post
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111


    I guess this "proves" my feelings on the issue. I hope Blizzard addresses this quickly so we can be competetive healers next wednesday when the heroics open...
    That is so amusing haha. looks like everyone went up once 5.2 hit..cept shaman which tanked apparently haha

    That being said I heal fine in my ten man despite my numbers.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by suffeli View Post
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111


    I guess this "proves" my feelings on the issue. I hope Blizzard addresses this quickly so we can be competetive healers next wednesday when the heroics open...
    God, this looks depressing.
    metanoia gone horde!

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  5. #25
    Fluffy Kitten Puupi's Avatar
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    I made a thread about the current state of Resto on Blizzard forums. Go QQ there and we might get some attention asap. We will get buffed, I'm sure about it. I just want it to happen now, not in 2 months.

    link to the thread: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6876867656
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  6. #26
    The initial T15 data is out from RaidBots

    25 man - http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111
    10 man - http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111

    Resto is 24% behind in 25 man and 39% behind in 10 man from the initial numbers. Paladins have arguably as much raid utility as Shaman and are the #1 25 man healer.

    I am not surprised. There really are a few factors.
    1. Shaman output was fairly mediocre in T14. We were at the bottom in 10 man and only ahead of Druids in 25 man, and Druids got a significant buff while Shaman did not get any real buffs. These numbers are kind of expected
    2. T15 fight mechanics are extremely antagonistic to Shaman healing. With 35%+ of our output tied to Healing Rain, we lose A LOT when the raid is so spread out that it loses significant effectiveness. DS was almost entirely stacked healing, and so was most of T14. T15 has a lot more spread healing mechanics, and Shaman mechanics were never really updated to properly address that weakness. It has just been masked the last two tiers, because the fights have been more favorable to the toolkit we have.

    I could easily see this tier turning into a Firelands-level train wreck for Resto.

  7. #27
    Well i am not a resto shaman, but imo, ToT is very good for resto shamans, mainly because those raidbots numbers are completely useless, and here's why:

    Other classes might be beating your raw healing, but the healing cd's resto shamans has available makes them able to burst way harder that any other class, ascendance, HTT and SLT is insane for ToT imo, because it has alot of fights with 10-15 sec dmg bursts where Cd's need to be rotated, this has not really been the case for t14 imo.
    So i think you should really just give it some time, so just ignore those raidbots numbers for now, because your mistweaver monk might be cocky he's winning the meters, but meters wont help him when the raid takes 200k dmg per second.

  8. #28
    When you're comparing fights, please remember that resto shamans are ONLY at the top (or near) of the charts on fights where we can stack for a long period of time, ie Jinrokh. We suck on movement heavy fights due to our limited toolkit, with Ascendance and HST/HTT/SWG being our bandaids.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 01:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowl View Post
    Well i am not a resto shaman, but imo, ToT is very good for resto shamans, mainly because those raidbots numbers are completely useless, and here's why:

    Other classes might be beating your raw healing, but the healing cd's resto shamans has available makes them able to burst way harder that any other class, ascendance, HTT and SLT is insane for ToT imo, because it has alot of fights with 10-15 sec dmg bursts where Cd's need to be rotated, this has not really been the case for t14 imo.
    So i think you should really just give it some time, so just ignore those raidbots numbers for now, because your mistweaver monk might be cocky he's winning the meters, but meters wont help him when the raid takes 200k dmg per second.
    HTT ticks on 5 people at a time, so the raid taking 200k damage a second is probably a wipe no matter what unless you popped that HTT right off the bat.

  9. #29
    You have to remember, we're speaking 10man here. Resto shamans are extremely weak right now in 10man(unless we can stack most of the fight).

    Our 4 piece might trivialize this though.. I was doing a bit of theory crafting, and with our 4 piece we can reforge out of crit and go into pure haste for more throughput. We lose a lot of mana regen from resurgence, but we gain extra ticks on healing stream totem, healing tide, etc. Since we're forced to single target heal a lot more in 10man, this may make us a lot stronger. Currently I run: Spirit->50% mastery->Crit
    Last edited by Jerret; 2013-03-08 at 02:57 AM.

  10. #30
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    Well i disagree with the statement that Resto Shammies are weak. Could the class get a buff to bring it inline? Sure.
    But what if T16 is again a Stack up and AoE heal style of instance, then we are overpowered or too strong again. Shamans are too good in PvP, thus we feel that in PvE.

    I dont mind being the healer with lowest HPS and lowest Healing Done. I do mind if my raid is dying because of it.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Beriohtarion View Post
    Well i disagree with the statement that Resto Shammies are weak. Could the class get a buff to bring it inline? Sure.
    But what if T16 is again a Stack up and AoE heal style of instance, then we are overpowered or too strong again. Shamans are too good in PvP, thus we feel that in PvE.

    I dont mind being the healer with lowest HPS and lowest Healing Done. I do mind if my raid is dying because of it.
    If T16 results in more stacked healing and it creates balance problems, then deal with that when T16 happens. It is not an excuse to ignore the current tier and leave us in a under performing place for 5 months.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Beriohtarion View Post
    I dont mind being the healer with lowest HPS and lowest Healing Done. I do mind if my raid is dying because of it.
    I could not agree with this more. Well said.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Beriohtarion View Post
    Well i disagree with the statement that Resto Shammies are weak. Could the class get a buff to bring it inline? Sure.
    But what if T16 is again a Stack up and AoE heal style of instance, then we are overpowered or too strong again. Shamans are too good in PvP, thus we feel that in PvE.
    H pala and resto druid are better in arenas than we are.

  14. #34
    Same problem we had in Cata all over again, and we didn't get any love until halfway through 5.2 with SLT bandaid, then 5.3 with DS stack fights + stupid LB mana scaling.

    Our mana is just fine now, but our toolkit could be a lot better.

  15. #35
    I said in a post on another thread that this tier will be how Ulduar and Firelands was for Resto Shamans. We will be extremely poor and will need massive buffs. What baffles my mind is that Resto Shaman community made absolutely NO noise at all during beta. You don't even need to be on the PTR to understand that Resto Shamans will be severely hurt during heavy movement fights.

    The entire point of "but Resto Shaman is very good when the raid is stacked" is bullshit because Holy Paladins, Holy Priest and Disc Priest shit all over Resto Shaman when the raid is stacked. Just look at Jinrokh kills and the amount of healing Holy Paladins do. They are 15k ahead of 2nd placed Resto Shamans. HOLY PALADINS NEEDS A MASSIVE NERF! How Blizzard thinks their healing is fine for PVE is beyond understandable. They were the only healers to compete with Discs in t14 and where even able to beat them on some fights. Now Holy Paladins will be even more strong with Disc nerfs. Holy Paladins need about 15% nerf to their healing to bring them inline with others. Discs are still very strong, but lets how it pans out in the long term.

    Anyways, Resto Shamans need about 15% buff to their healing done and this does not mean a flat 10% or something healing buff like Resto Druids got. We need our spells to be more effective when the raid is spread out. This means a massive buff to CH and giving us another aoe spell that isn't dependent on the raid being stacked. SLT also needs a buff. A 3min cd that comes with ridiculous amount of limitations is really stupid. They need to increase it's area of effectiveness and it's duration or reduce it's CD to make it more effective. Atm it is TOO situational much like HR and CH.

    A 4th aoe healing CD (3 mins again) should be given to Resto Shaman along with buffs to CH and SLT. HR can do with a increase in it's area of effectiveness aswell. No healer has range limitation like Resto Shamans do, it's absolutely ridiculous. Almost all of our spells have range limitations. How can you make boss fights that require the entire raid to spread out as much as possible and then add such pathetic range to healing spells?

    If we were unmatched when the raid was stacked or very low, then I wouldn't say anything. But the sad truth is, even if both of these situation happen at the same time, we are still blown away by Holy Paladins, Disc Priest and from the looks of it, Holy Priest now too.

    We need massive buffs, and we need em now, not when we are half way into the tier.

    And what's up with Blizz not fixing the Resto Shaman hast bug? It's been around for more then 5 months and we have heard anything on it. Resto Shaman community needs to wakeup. If there is a community left that is.

    EDIT: I'm actually tired of seeing Holy Paladins being the best healers for every freaking tier. For once put them inline with other healers Blizz.
    Last edited by Waterisbest; 2013-03-08 at 05:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    If T16 results in more stacked healing and it creates balance problems, then deal with that when T16 happens. It is not an excuse to ignore the current tier and leave us in a under performing place for 5 months.
    ^ This. We'll have to see once our 4 piece comes in.

    Also, when you're lowest on meters it's pretty bad, regardless if you're wiping. Any decent guild will just bring in the better healers. I've sat for a few fights in my guild(the one's that need to be 2 healed) just because shamans are so much weaker. Not to mention our comp is pally, monk, and me being the shaman. Pally's/monks have better throughput/mbnks can fistweave. Same thing goes for priests. We're not in a good spot right now, but as I said before we will have to see since 4pc will significantly help out for 10man shamans.

    at Water, you're right for the most part, BUT what I am trying to say is we do a lot more HPS if everyone is stacked. It's nothing compared to priests/paladins, but we can at least compete with monks(lol). Without buffs we'll never be on par with priests/paladins. Illuminated healing alone shits on us pretty bad.
    Last edited by Jerret; 2013-03-08 at 05:51 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerret View Post
    ^ This. We'll have to see once our 4 piece comes in.

    Also, when you're lowest on meters it's pretty bad, regardless if you're wiping. Any decent guild will just bring in the better healers. I've sat for a few fights in my guild(the one's that need to be 2 healed) just because shamans are so much weaker. Not to mention our comp is pally, monk, and me being the shaman. Pally's/monks have better throughput/mbnks can fistweave. Same thing goes for priests. We're not in a good spot right now, but as I said before we will have to see since 4pc will significantly help out for 10man shamans.
    It's not just 10man atm though. It's 25man too. Ppl have to spread out, not only spread, but run around in almost every fight. It's hurting Resto Shamans way way too much. We should no longer be the healer who heals the melee, cause that doesn't make any sense anymore. This isn't TBC. Every healer should be able to heal every fight effectively, stacked raid, spread raid, raid running like a bunch maniacs, raid doing whatever. We atm, can't heal as effectively as EVERY other healer when the raid is spread out, and this means that the specc has a design flaw or still have an outdated design. It's time for a change.

    The 4P is garbage for 25man. It's better you don't even get it, the only single target spell you use in a 25man raid is Riptide. OH WAIT! Our aoe spells are useless on most of the fights cause our spells won't be hitting anyone in the raid, guess we will be using single target heals for 25man too. That sounds perfectly fine!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  18. #38
    I thought we were speaking 10man here. I haven't really even looked at 25man at all. I do agree with you that we need a buff, but knowing blizzard we'll probably get something really small if we even get a buff at all. Only time/enough QQ will tell. For 10man our 4 piece is actually pretty decent. 25man, not so much.

  19. #39
    I just think it's stupid how we have to rely so heavily on our tier bonuses this time around to do our jobs, which no class should have to do. Not to mention the damn 4pc devalues crit for us, which I've kinda been stacking. Hello hastey build once I get 4pc.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerret View Post
    I thought we were speaking 10man here. I haven't really even looked at 25man at all. I do agree with you that we need a buff, but knowing blizzard we'll probably get something really small if we even get a buff at all. Only time/enough QQ will tell. For 10man our 4 piece is actually pretty decent. 25man, not so much.
    Yes we were talking about 10man. But it's not just 10man we are suffering anymore, hence I bought up 25man too. A bit off-topic, but we weak overall atm and need buffs. I am actually surprised as to how much we are suffering in 25man, because I was thinking we will still be in the middle of the pack, even if lower, our hps will be very close, but how wrong was I. We are about 10-20% behind others depending the fight, both 10mand and 25man.

    I agree in 10man our 4p is really good and pretty much designed keeping 10man in mind. But that's a big "FUCK YOU" to 25man. Tier bonuses shouldn't be designed keeping one format of raid in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

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