Anyone else thinking resto (10m) is quite broken?

[trollingisokayhere]

Sure, There's lots of problems with stacking so much damn spirit. The Most egregious being that you are completely neutering your Heals when you do so, Im not just talking a little, but by like 10% or maybe more. Our secondary Stats have FANTASTIC Synergy, and NONE OF THEM SHOULD BE IGNORED. Ill just start by explaining My weights and why I chose them

Spirit to 6K> Haste to 5700>Mastery to 50% (about 5100ish)>Crit

Spirit & Crit- 100 Points of Spirit is worth Approx 57 MP5 When you are casting Healing Wave, & Greater Healing Wave, 100 Points of crit is worth 42 MP5, Riptide and HS is 29.5 MP5, and Chain Heal is about 9.8 MP5. Lets say you are using a good Mix of these spells in your normal rotation (I tend to use HW a Lot as filler) Ill be conservative and say With my mix of heals 100 Points of crit is going to be around 25 MP5. So In PURE REGEN TERMS ONLY, 2 Points of Crit=1 Point spirit (almost). Now then Factor in the fact that Crit is Probably your second best throughput stat on top of it (haste is slightly better), and I wonder why a lot of shamans are ignoring Crit. Instead of taking 10000 Spirit, Take 6000, and add 4000 crit, Its like Having 8k Spirit anyway (which is a lot), with the bonus of having 4000 crit!

I will have NONE of the argument that More Spirit helps your mana tide and conversely your other healers. OTHER HEALERS ARE NOT BALANCED AROUND YOUR MANA TIDE, While shamans are balanced around the fact that they have Mana tide available. It is a Bonus, they get what they get, Period. You need to be thinking about your character alone while you reforge

Haste- I also see a lot of Shaman Completely Ignoring Haste Past 871. This is horrible. Ill give you a concept I never hear people bring up when they argue against haste. NOT HAVING A DECENT AMOUNT OF HASTE CAUSES YOU TO OVERHEAL MORE. Yes its true, while your slow heals are taking forever to land, one of your other healers has likely already topped off that person. Druids have Rejuv, wild growth, swiftmend and Lifebloom is a crazy fast HoT. Pallies have instant heals. Shaman have.....cast times. Also, take a look at this spreadsheet http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=41 Tjose are your breakpoints, I dont know about you, but I want an extra tick of Healing Stream and Healing tide, Yes if you hit that Number EXACTLY lag can eat up that extra tick, so go over it, go over it so much that you reach the next breakpoint, Riptide. I dont know about you guys, but riptide is always in my top 3 healing done, an extra tick is a No brainer, Again, Go over the cap to account for lag, 5700 will do the trick, this puts you at about 25% raid buffed. Now your heals have some teeth

Mastery-Not Much to say here, Get it to 510oish (about 50%) then reforge out of it. Mastery soft caps at 50%

If youre doing all of this and STILL having mana Issues, heres some more stuff to try

Glyph of Totemic recall- This Glyph is really really powerful, if you use it right you can get back well over 100k more Mana back a fight than Unglyphed, Simply recall your Healing stream and Elemental totems at the last second, youll have gotten the full (or almost) the full benefit of them for a cost of ZERO mana. Healing stream totem is expensive....14.1K mana thats 2/3 the cost of a healing rain, its not cheap, Fire and Earth elementals cost over 16k Mana, again, theyre expensive! So make sure youre recalling them

Glyph of Water Shield-Learn Which fights favor the Glyph over thse which dont. The difference in mana Can be huge.

Glyph of Telluric Currents- Good Synergy with Unleashed lightning. Good for sneaking in some lightning bolts during movement. Lightning bolts provide about 240 MP5 with this glyph while you are casting them.

Glyph of healing wave- If you have nothing to glyph for a certain fight, this is free extra healing, take it and dont apoligize

And finally the last thing I want to touch on is The Glyph of Riptide. I HATE GLYPH OF RIPTIDE WITH A PASSION. Why? The Best part of riptide is its Initial Heal, it has great synergy with our single target heals. The HoT on Riptide is actually kinda weakish. So what the Glyph essentially does is turn riptide into a Weak Rejuv. Spamming riptides is a sure way to Go OOM and find yourself lagging behind your other healers. Instead, Use the cooldown on riptide to your advantage, Instead of spamming riptide and sitting on stacks of tidal waves. Cast riptide and USE those stacks, Tidal waves is meant to be USED Not sat on! A good simple rotation of Riptide-(G)HW-(G)HW-Choose your spell-Riptide is extremely effective, and heals a surprisingly high number of members of your raid in those 6 seconds.

Now if the fight is Just so heavy movement that you cant get a heal in edgewise, MAYBE i will glyph riptide, But then Ill come to my senses and just use SWG effectivley and unglyph it again =)

Are you trying to mislead people? It's pure bullshit to think you heal 10 man ToT with 6k spirt.

[Schadow]

If somebody can post this on the US forums, I will be forever grateful.

Greetings,

As I am a European player, I kindly asked if somebody on mmo-champion can post this on the US forums. I am a resto shaman since Vanilla, and shaman since patch 0.7, and currently still a resto shaman during ToT. My progress may be a bit lacking (6/12 Normal ToT), but I usually stick myself to numbers and I can tell right now that the numbers are shocking enough.

Just keeping myself to ToT here, I can see that we are way below the rest of the other healers, as has been stated by other people in this topic. I too experienced a lot of difficulty in being on par. I have never really bothered about topping the meters, but being at least in the same range as other healers is something I much prefer, to the point where nobody else dies.

The amount of spread fights in ToT is quite high, but worse is that even on stack fights like jin'rokh and magaera, we are still low. We can use Healing Rain there, but it just does not even let us be in the same range HPS wise. That seems more like our healing output is just too low.

And that really needs a change. It is not that we can't use Healing Rain, it's just that our whole arsenal of healing output is too low. Furthermore, spread fights is okay, but we can't use Chain Heal either. The glyph is nice, it then does reach, but the cooldown makes us limited in our options, something other healers do not have. You introduced the cooldown, because you feared it will make Chain Heal too powerful, but it is now one of the least used spells, especially in 10-man, due to it's bad range.

A buff in general of our healing output is really required. I made gear sets for 10 and 25-man respectively and even by the looks of it, only the 4 piece will be good for 10-man. But to get that, we need to do decent healing to keep our raid alive and not being benched as we are so limited.

It's stat priority is also no longer versatile, as you wanted us to believe by removing our mp5. You wanted us to choose what stats we go for, but it's still required that we stack an insane amount of spirit. If you want us to have versatile stats, then you didn't implement such a huge need for spirit.

Now I know that in PvP, we are quite strong. We are second to best healer there, people say. It is true that we are good there, because we have the gear there for it. Shamans have always scaled better then any other class with gear and with the amount of RBG boosting going on, everybody could get Tier 2 items, making shamans more powerful then classes that do not. In PvP, however, healing output is not everything.

Buff the healing output. It's a plea from the resto shaman community and from me personally aswell. The EU community is also calling out that we need one. We get benched and swapped so much that it is not even fun anymore. I was close to not even passing a trial in my guild, simply because I was low on the healing meters. And I tried everything to improve myself, stat priority difference, glyph difference, but I can not even get close to it. We have needed a buff ever since T11, with T12 being the cherry on top.

Set bonuses will not fix this, especially not for 25-man. A buff in our healing output is so drastically needed and quickly.

Thank you for listening to an old man on the Europe side of life.


With kind regards,

~Disq
Darksorrow-EU

[Rorschachs]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ariis/advanced

anyone care to explain what the ** is this? what is he doing with the mix of that much spirit and crit..

[Puupi]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ariis/advanced

anyone care to explain what the ** is this? what is he doing with the mix of that much spirit and crit..

25man hc resto shaman. His only functions probably are: Mana Tide Totem, Stormlash Totem, Healing Tide Totem, Spirit Link Totem and Healing Rain.
He brings as much mana as possible to the other healers, keeps HR in the ground 24/7 and spams GHW on the tank. That's my guess.

[Tiberria]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ariis/advanced

anyone care to explain what the ** is this? what is he doing with the mix of that much spirit and crit..

Not at all surprising. Resto Shaman should continue to stack Spirit, even beyond what they personally need for regen because of the interaction with MTT and the benefit to the rest of the healers in the raid, especially 25 man. This is especially true with how awful (to put it kindly) Resto Shaman output is this tier; the raid benefit outweighs anything you could personally do with a lower Spirit build. It just requires playstyle/spell selection adjustments to spend the extra mana that you have. For example, at 17,000+ raid buffed Spirit, I replace GHW with HS almost exclusively.

[Rafal]

If somebody can post this on the US forums, I will be forever grateful.

Posted for you!

[stomination]

Posted for you!

Kind of a waste of a post though. Messing around with Resto shaman healing output would upset the balance of the game in its 10 25 man and pvp modes.


This post originally started out as a 10 man resto shaman woes. Which is quite understandable when 10 man is a great place for Disc priest and Holy Pallies. Its a difficult place for any other healer to do great over two classes with Absorbs. In the end you become mainly the tank healer and a mana battery with some raid cds.

Now as for 25 mans I rarely see progression minded guilds not using their resto shamans in fights. The hps meter matters so little when it comes to killing the boss unless there is a clear and a very clear Healing based fight. (Tsulong and the dragon in ICC.) But even then they bring those shamans in for the mana tide and raid cds that are quite strong in raids and will always be the case.

[Seriss]

But even then they bring those shamans in for the mana tide and raid cds that are quite strong in raids and will always be the case.

So, you're saying that shamans should create Mana Tide and Healing Tide macros that each include a /say I'm validating my raid spot!!!! and just shut up about their poor output? I'm sorry, but whenever I'm raiding, I'm feeling bad for my fellow healers because for the druid healing with me is simply way harder than healing with the paladin, even though he knows that I'm probably one of the better resto shamans on the server and therefore has faith in me handling things halfway correctly.

[Gendori]

Are you trying to mislead people? It's pure bullshit to think you heal 10 man ToT with 6k spirt.

Im not trying to mislead anyone, Im just trying to say that Yes Indeed it is Possible. One thing the entire community overlooks when it comes to Resto Shaman is that Spirit is But A SINGLE TOOL you have to regenerate mana, we have Many tools. If you Choose not to use to use those tools and just stack spirit, then you are making poor choices, and Playing Badly. Here are the many tools we have to Regenerate Mana

Spirit: 56 MP5 for every Point, No Direct throughput gains. People stack too much IMO because its the one number they can raise that looks all neat and tidy on thier paperdoll saying "YOU REGENRATE THIS MUCH MANA"

Crit: Overlooked for Mana Regeneration, Returns almost half its worth in Spirit through resurgence. Also the Best throughput stat for single target heals. At around 507 Ilevel you will probably have enough stat points leftover in my reforge priority to get around 25% crit, This is a Very reliable amount for its purpose

Water Shield Glyph; Can give you SIGNIFICANT returns if you glyph it on the right fights

Telluric currents: Net 240 MP5 While youre casting lightning bolts, Do the Math, its not mana Neutral, its mana Positive

Trinkets: Trinket Procs are something people never consider when deciding how much spirit to carry, this is a mistake

Healing Rain:This got nerfed on mana cost by 15%. This is significant, and again, people overlook that when calculating they're mana Needs

Look at these 2 parses

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=4026#Genndori

This was a competitive log with our Resto Druid (who is one of the TOP 10 Man resto druids I know of), I would have done better except The druid got to use his CD's before Mine and the way the fight cycled I had CD's up when we killed. I ended this fight with an Ok amount of mana. Click My name, look at the Buffs gained and you can see for totemic recall and resurgence, 380k Mana, thats more than a Full bar of mana. The truth is that at about 507 Ilevel you can stack crit to a decent amount. I had 5700 Haste 6k Spirit 50% mastery and Almost 5k crit. That 5k Crit Probably returned about 2500 spirit worth of mana. Also My Blessing of the Celestials had a 41.2% Uptime (Avg of around 1k Spirit total) and Radiance had a 20% uptime (around 1k spirit total)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=3191#Genndori

Heres a Log from TORTOS where I beat our Pally AND druid! OMG what business do we have beating Pallies?!?!?! Let alone a druid?!?! on TORTOS nonetheless! Again, 5700 haste 6k spirit lots of crit and mana to spare. I was terrible with totemic recall on this fight, But Again Resurgence gave me 200k mana, and the properly glyphed Water Shield Put out like crazy. Trinket uptimes were 44.5% for Blessing of the celestials (around 1.1k) and 19% for radiance (slightly less than 1k spirit) In fact I didnt even use a mana potion on this fight.

Im again going to reiterate that Im hearing None of the argument about mana Tide Buffing the rest of the raid more than your personal throughput gain. This is a false notion that has been repeated for years that isnt true. When your other healers ending every fight with a healthy amount of mana you are giving them too much, they dont need it, its a BONUS, they are NOT balanced around it. In fact the one spec that did get a huge bonus from Mana tide (disc) got nerfed into the ground on that one. I promise you that your other healers are not gearing around your mana tide, for the most part.

If you are going to come to this board and INSIST that Mana tide helps your other healers SOOOOOOO Much than your personal extra throughput can make up for AND THEN IN THE SAME SENTENCE complain that we are weak, then you are completely missing the point. The ONLY solution for that Is to Nerf mana tide into the ground Because quite honestly if you are balanced around your mana tide helping your raid team SOOOOOOO Much, then you are too powerful anyway, and need a nerf.

So Nerf Mana Tide? Can't do that the community will be in an uproar! You seem to want the Best of both Worlds, You want to help your healers SOOOOOOOOO Much and Give them SOOOOOOO Much mana While at the same time being the Highest throughput Healer, You cant have it that way, 25 Man raids would just Bring 6 Resto Shaman and everyone else would be irrelevant. Instead, you have to make a CHOICE, and with every choice is a TRADEOFF, You CHOOSE to give youre healers needless mana (since they are not all OOM at the end of every fight). The Tradeoff for your choice is that You have really made your own personal healing suffer quite badly for it, and then come here and complain about it.

Now I'm not saying everything is fine and Hunky Dory, and that we are perfect, we MIGHT be a little low in performance, but its not even close to as bad as some people are saying. We could probably use a Numbers tweak here and there, Nothing Dramatic. I feel that The Theorycrafting for Resto Shaman has been so incredibly poor, and that more so than every other healer, we have dramatic and interesting choices, that affect a whole lot and affect our performance greatly. So, Like I said, I'm not misleading anyone, these are my numbers, they work for me, You may decide you need more. Hell, down the Road I might even too! But this Blind stacking because everyone else is doing it has got to stop. Noone has stopped for a second to question WHY, Or better yet, actually have the guts to try something different, and see how you make out. Instead, we just look at raidbots and come here to complain. If you Choose not to follow what i do, and most of you wont, At least Think for a second Please, and start questioning the norm, and try something different for once, you might be surprised at the results!

[Tiberria]

Messing around with Resto shaman healing output would upset the balance of the game in its 10 25 man and pvp modes.

You are delusional if you think there is any "balance of the game" when it comes to Resto Shaman in the first place. Raw HPS may not be the be all and end all, but Resto Shaman are an average of 34% behind in 25 man and 38% behind in 10 man (variance averaged across fights). There is no level of utility that can excuse that level of variance.

On top of that, Holy Paladins and Disc Priest both offer as much or more utility (look at the amount of DPS Disc Priests add) with 30-40% higher output.

[Gendori]

You are delusional if you think there is any "balance of the game" when it comes to Resto Shaman in the first place. Raw HPS may not be the be all and end all, but Resto Shaman are an average of 34% behind in 25 man and 38% behind in 10 man (variance averaged across fights). There is no level of utility that can excuse that level of variance.

On top of that, Holy Paladins and Disc Priest both offer as much or more utility (look at the amount of DPS Disc Priests add) with 30-40% higher output.

You are Way dramatizing these numbers, If youre Going Pure HPS You need to look at the bottom from The AVERAGE, not bottom from the top. You shouldnt expect to be on top, you should expect to be near the average

In fact it is not even close to 35% the bottom from the top, and dont quote me Heroic Numbers yet, there are VERY FEW heroic logs and the sample size is not even close to adequate

[Puupi]

Gendori, sorry to break into your "Crusade of the 6000 Spirits", but in all honesty: your 40-50k HPS 3 healer logs don't mean a damn thing. Show me a 2 healed log with 70-80k HPS from you at 500-510 ilvl with 6000 spirit and you actually would have some credibility. I did progress T14 HC's with full crit gear myself, I had 9k+ crit and 7,5k spirit and it worked fine. But the reason it worked fine was that spamming Healing Wave was enough HPS to keep people from dieing. In ToT, It just isn't enough for the majority of the fights, especially heroics. If you need to swap Healing Wave for GHW/HS and have Healing Rain in the ground 24/7, 6000 spirit just wont cut it.

[Tiberria]

You are Way dramatizing these numbers, If youre Going Pure HPS You need to look at the bottom from The AVERAGE, not bottom from the top. You shouldnt expect to be on top, you should expect to be near the average

In fact it is not even close to 35% the bottom from the top, and dont quote me Heroic Numbers yet, there are VERY FEW heroic logs and the sample size is not even close to adequate

Are you looking at overall, or are you taking the results from every fight and averaging that across the 12 fights? Looking at overall actually understates the gap, because there are way more Jin'rokh (one of our strongest fights this tier) parses than some of the later fights where we are terrible. There is also not really a clear top throughput healer this tier; monks, priests and paladins all have fights that they top.

25 man - Top Healer - Resto Shaman - % Behind

Jin'rokh 78701 66235 18.8%
Horridon 38999 26507.5 47.1%
Council of Elders 54707 42081.5 30.0%
Tortos 65489 46624 40.5%
Megaera 79702 62141 28.3%
Ji-Kun 44391 35185 26.2%
Durumu 58214.5 44609 30.5%
Primordius 66318 44919 47.6%
Dark Animus 54065 41253 31.1%
Iron Qon 83191 66812.5 24.5%
Twin Consorts 73817 50154 47.2%
Lei Shen 62464 45086 38.5%

10 man - Top Healer - Resto Shaman - % Behind

Jin'rokh 69415 55388.5 25.3%
Horridon 41956 29408 42.7%
Council of Elders 56031 43940 27.5%
Tortos 62416 44692 39.7%
Megaera 78446.5 58221.5 34.7%
Ji-Kun 39134.5 28252.5 38.5%
Durumu 45796 32772.5 39.7%
Primordius 67342 50715 32.8%
Dark Animus 52385 40133 30.5%
Iron Qon 73315 54931 33.5%
Twin Consorts 60634 41595 45.8%
Lei Shen 69016 44638 54.6%

There's a sample size of 2000+ parses in each raid difficulty for Resto Shaman used in these aggregations, so this is not a "low sample size" issues. There are no heroic log aggregates, because WoL doesn't recognize heroic kills yet. On top of that, there are next to no public WoL for heroic bosses outside of the top 2.

The gap actually gets larger, not smaller in heroics. You would know this if you actually had ToT heroic experience.

[Gendori]

Gendori, sorry to break into your "Crusade of the 6000 Spirits", but in all honesty: your 40-50k HPS 3 healer logs don't mean a damn thing. Show me a 2 healed log with 70-80k HPS from you at 500-510 ilvl with 6000 spirit and you actually would have some credibility. I did progress T14 HC's with full crit gear myself, I had 9k+ crit and 7,5k spirit and it worked fine. But the reason it worked fine was that spamming Healing Wave was enough HPS to keep people from dieing. In ToT, It just isn't enough for the majority of the fights, especially heroics. If you need to swap Healing Wave for GHW/HS and have Healing Rain in the ground 24/7, 6000 spirit just wont cut it.

For normals TOT it works Just fine, I havent done heroics yet, and will next week. Like I said, I might decide I need more, What I'm really trying to advocate is this ludicrous notion of stacking 12k-15k+ which is just horrible. I dont have a lot of logs yet, since I sat some fights to get others in and played Ele on half the fights too, but I assure you that last tier I got my just fine with the same strategy as well.

Id be real curious to see what you could do with your gear and only 8k spirit, I think youd be a beast, I think you can get by with much less

[obesemidget]

can you explain this utility. In regards to what we do for a raid that no other healing class can bring/ do better?

[Tiberria]

For normals TOT it works Just fine, I havent done heroics yet, and will next week. Like I said, I might decide I need more, What I'm really trying to advocate is this ludicrous notion of stacking 12k-15k+ which is just horrible. I dont have a lot of logs yet, since I sat some fights to get others in and played Ele on half the fights too, but I assure you that last tier I got my just fine with the same strategy as well.

Id be real curious to see what you could do with your gear and only 8k spirit, I think youd be a beast, I think you can get by with much less

You didn't even clear any of the fights that were actually difficult/mana intensive last tier (H Will, H Shek'zeer, H Elite Protectors, to an extent H Sha because of the length), so it really isn't a great example. But, apparently you know better than those "terrible Resto Shaman" in Blood Legion and Method that are stacking 18,000+ unbuffed Spirit currently.

[Gendori]

Are you looking at overall, or are you taking the results from every fight and averaging that across the 12 fights? Looking at overall actually understates the gap, because there are way more Jin'rokh (one of our strongest fights this tier) parses than some of the later fights where we are terrible. There is also not really a clear top throughput healer this tier; monks, priests and paladins all have fights that they top.

25 man - Top Healer - Resto Shaman - % Behind

Jin'rokh 78701 66235 18.8%
Horridon 38999 26507.5 47.1%
Council of Elders 54707 42081.5 30.0%
Tortos 65489 46624 40.5%
Megaera 79702 62141 28.3%
Ji-Kun 44391 35185 26.2%
Durumu 58214.5 44609 30.5%
Primordius 66318 44919 47.6%
Dark Animus 54065 41253 31.1%
Iron Qon 83191 66812.5 24.5%
Twin Consorts 73817 50154 47.2%
Lei Shen 62464 45086 38.5%

10 man - Top Healer - Resto Shaman - % Behind

Jin'rokh 69415 55388.5 25.3%
Horridon 41956 29408 42.7%
Council of Elders 56031 43940 27.5%
Tortos 62416 44692 39.7%
Megaera 78446.5 58221.5 34.7%
Ji-Kun 39134.5 28252.5 38.5%
Durumu 45796 32772.5 39.7%
Primordius 67342 50715 32.8%
Dark Animus 52385 40133 30.5%
Iron Qon 73315 54931 33.5%
Twin Consorts 60634 41595 45.8%
Lei Shen 69016 44638 54.6%

There's a sample size of 2000+ parses in each raid difficulty for Resto Shaman used in these aggregations, so this is not a "low sample size" issues. There are no heroic log aggregates, because WoL doesn't recognize heroic kills yet. On top of that, there are next to no public WoL for heroic bosses outside of the top 2.

The gap actually gets larger, not smaller in heroics. You would know this if you actually had ToT heroic experience.

You cant just take away the top fight and dismiss it and say "well were great at this fight so dont count it. Because conversely, youd have to do that with our worst fight "well, we suck at that fight, dont count it.

And you cant compare us to where the top healer is, nor can you take the very bottom of the barrell and compare it to the top of the barrell. You need to take the average resto shaman, and compare it to the average performance on an average of all fights. Youre trying to simply cherrypick your own stats to make an argument, and it just doesnt work like that, and you wind up doing more harm than good.

[Puupi]

@Gendori

I don't mean that crit is bad, or it is bad regen. But it is random, and it is situational. Shaman healing spells are far too situational as it is, I don't want to add any more randomness or situational behaviour to the class. I want to be able to use all my tools, even they are gimped, and have reliable heals. That's why I've swapped from full crit to spirit + pretty high haste threshold. Basically now I have 7613 haste > spirit (12,5k or something)> crit (3.5k?). Haste helps me to spot heal with those HW's and GHW's because those are pretty much the only spells we can spotheal with. Haste breakpoints also give extra ticks for Riptide, HR and HST, which are the rest of my basic tools.
Crit is a good stat, on paper it's the best stat. But sometimes you have to make sacrifices with the stats and optimal spells you use to be able to do your job - which is to keep people alive.

[obesemidget]

If you dont like raw Hps numbers look at the percentage of resto shamans being used as you get deeper into TOT. The further into the raid you go the less percentage of resto shaman's being used insists that we are less capable of helping our raid defeat the bosses.

[Tiberria]

And you cant compare us to where the top healer is, nor can you take the very bottom of the barrell and compare it to the top of the barrell. You need to take the average resto shaman, and compare it to the average performance on an average of all fights. Youre trying to simply cherrypick your own stats to make an argument, and it just doesnt work like that, and you wind up doing more harm than good.

I am not saying don't count the top fight. What I am saying is that there are 3400 Resto Shaman parses for Jin'Rokh and 199 for Lei Shen, and it is not reasonable to give Jin'rokh 17 times the weight of Lei Shen in any reasonable discussion of class balance.