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  1. #1

    Anyone else thinking resto (10m) is quite broken?

    Hey there

    Just noticed we didnt get any real buffs with 5.2 (except for healing rains mana costs reduced). Our priest/pala are (nearly) always higher in HPS / healing meters. I know they are not all for heals, but somehow this however sucks...

    Am I performing that bad or is this the same on other groups? If you want to have a look at our logs, here they are: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/230588/

    Regards
    MrWilson

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Yes I had problems, too. Resto shaman is definitely undertuned in 10 man. And it's undertuned by quite a huge margin.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  3. #3
    Yes i have to agree. I am just 3rd healer in my guild and even i have almost same ilvl as main healers i am falling behind them in raw HPS by a quite lot. Its kinda stupid that Resto Druid got 10% flat healing buff, but Shaman got only cheaper Healing Rain. I guess its mainly because Resto Shaman is really strong in PvP and Blizzard is scared to buff it in throughput way.
    Shaman since MoP, Raider since Vanilla



    eXample - Semi HC 12/14HC guild

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    Not only in 10 mans imo... HST heals 5 people, HTT heals 5 people, Healing Rain diminishes effects when there are more then 6 people in it, Chain Heal is still slow as hell that it is not wise to spam it as an aoe filler.

    while Spirit Shell is one button to shield the whole (WHOLE!) raid.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  5. #5
    The new tier set is should help out especially in 10m

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    Not only in 10 mans imo... HST heals 5 people, HTT heals 5 people, Healing Rain diminishes effects when there are more then 6 people in it, Chain Heal is still slow as hell that it is not wise to spam it as an aoe filler.

    while Spirit Shell is one button to shield the whole (WHOLE!) raid.
    Dont dramatise :P Spirit shell might be one button to activate, but then you need to spam PoH. And besides, judging from WoL the nerfs to SS seem to have done their job.

    Yer we're a little under-powered but frankly we have a tonne of utility to back us up.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    The new tier set is should help out especially in 10m
    I doubt you're talking about the 2-set bonus, so let's say the 4-set bonus. I find it bloody awful in the fact that I don't know jack about it. The reading of it makes it sound like a whole other spell then Ancestral Awakening (AA for short).

    AA only procs from single target direct heal, namely UE, RT (not the hot), HW, GHW and HS. So about usually what is not in the top 3 of the spells cast, which is HST, HTT and HR, those three are usually on top of our healing done. Reading the set bonus makes it read from all non-crit heals, no matter if it's hot, single or multi target. Does that mean it can proc of HR, our totems, our chain heal?

    I can't find any info regarding this and if it doesn't proc of the latter, it makes it a whole shitty set bonus, one I'm definetly not going for (my PoV is 25-man btw), no matter if this is a smart heal or not. Considering they buffed it from 20% to 50%, I'd say it does not proc, but I hope I'm wrong.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 04:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nicebikemate View Post
    Dont dramatise :P Spirit shell might be one button to activate, but then you need to spam PoH. And besides, judging from WoL the nerfs to SS seem to have done their job.

    Yer we're a little under-powered but frankly we have a tonne of utility to back us up.
    One can not deny that our utilities simply lack what other healers can offer to a whole raid while we can only to five-sex people for full potential. and even if they have to spam PoH, it is still an absorbtion and with more priests, more shields.

    I am now talking about priests, but druids have tranquility to heal the whole raid with a hot. I don't know what paladins and monks have nowadays, but it feels as if they also have utilities for a whole raid group where as we simply only have one, Spirit Link, which may be good, but only if everybody stacks up, which is something I haven't seen much during T14 and T15, to benefit from the whole raid.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  8. #8
    All I can say is that last nights ToT raid was a hell of a lot of fun. We got good progression, I didnt feel too pushed on healing (despite the fact i'm 486) and I kept with a respectable ammount of my fellow healers (a pala and a holy priest who often rank, and rank well). I felt a valued member, and was reminded of how cracking our mastery can be on progression raids.

    Nope we're not top of the pile but who cares, not everyone can be. Our mastery is setout in such a way that we can truly save the day - we just do it in a less obvious way.

  9. #9
    Well for 1 disc priests got a pretty heavy nerf i think. Our new set bonus's seem the strongest out of all the other healers too imo. The healing rain mana cost buff is pretty nice but not entirely needed as mana wasnt an issue before and now we are going to be getting a lot more spirit, but i guess it will make things easier on new healers. We also got elemental mastery 30 secs less cooldown which aligns better with healing tide or ascendance for those who chose this talent, since we are rolling in haste reaching the earthliving breakpoint without the 5% passive haste is easy enough so unless you rely on the instant heal from AS then this is quite a nice buff.
    Another thing whilst more of a dps buff, primal elementalist got a 20% damage buff. If theres no need for the healing then have your elemental attack, it does quite a nice bit of dps and can help beat an enrage if you are tight.
    Lastly i find our utility absolutely amazing, better than the other healers. Stoneguard hc, windwalk totem was awesome at clearing the floor, go with totemic restoration and it would have a much shorter cooldown. Stormlash totem and heroism, awesome dps buffs for all the raid. hex, it doesnt usually break from dots unlike polymorph although its cooldown isnt brilliant. Capacitor totem a good 5 second aoe stun, its range and charge up time are issues i guess. Spirit link totem, can save a tank or dps when healing isnt enough. Healing tide totem, dont need to channel unlike tranq. spirit walkers grace, can cast all our heals whilst moving. Grounding totem has come in handy in more than 1 occasion.
    I agree our healing isnt as good as some but people who base healing only on logs doesnt seem right. The amount of utility we bring more than makes up for it imo

  10. #10
    Dreadlord
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    if thats true then i'm sad. my main is a mage and i dont like the current changes.. and now i'm reading that my favourite alt may be weak as well? i love to play resto shaman but if i'm sorted out because i cant compare to other healers i dont know what to do -.-.. time will tell i guess, first raid will be on saturday..

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarganthos View Post
    if thats true then i'm sad. my main is a mage and i dont like the current changes.. and now i'm reading that my favourite alt may be weak as well? i love to play resto shaman but if i'm sorted out because i cant compare to other healers i dont know what to do -.-.. time will tell i guess, first raid will be on saturday..
    Just play what you find fun, you will do alot better job than playing a boring class. I wouldnt say we are weak, in fact in progression raids we are very strong due to our mastery and as I said above, the utility we bring makes them stronger too.
    Oh and gl in your first raid of the patch . The new raid feels awesome

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MrWilson View Post
    Hey there

    Just noticed we didnt get any real buffs with 5.2 (except for healing rains mana costs reduced). Our priest/pala are (nearly) always higher in HPS / healing meters. I know they are not all for heals, but somehow this however sucks...

    Am I performing that bad or is this the same on other groups? If you want to have a look at our logs, here they are: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/230588/

    Regards
    MrWilson
    Our "alts" group ran a full Vaults last night. Our top healer was a Resto Shaman who, by his own admission, was very rusty. (His main is the DK tank for our progression group.) He still rarely used his CD's and hardly touched his mana except for Elegon and Spirit kings.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    I doubt you're talking about the 2-set bonus, so let's say the 4-set bonus. I find it bloody awful in the fact that I don't know jack about it. The reading of it makes it sound like a whole other spell then Ancestral Awakening (AA for short).

    AA only procs from single target direct heal, namely UE, RT (not the hot), HW, GHW and HS. So about usually what is not in the top 3 of the spells cast, which is HST, HTT and HR, those three are usually on top of our healing done. Reading the set bonus makes it read from all non-crit heals, no matter if it's hot, single or multi target. Does that mean it can proc of HR, our totems, our chain heal?

    I can't find any info regarding this and if it doesn't proc of the latter, it makes it a whole shitty set bonus, one I'm definetly not going for (my PoV is 25-man btw), no matter if this is a smart heal or not. Considering they buffed it from 20% to 50%, I'd say it does not proc, but I hope I'm wrong.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 04:01 PM ----------



    One can not deny that our utilities simply lack what other healers can offer to a whole raid while we can only to five-sex people for full potential. and even if they have to spam PoH, it is still an absorbtion and with more priests, more shields.

    I am now talking about priests, but druids have tranquility to heal the whole raid with a hot. I don't know what paladins and monks have nowadays, but it feels as if they also have utilities for a whole raid group where as we simply only have one, Spirit Link, which may be good, but only if everybody stacks up, which is something I haven't seen much during T14 and T15, to benefit from the whole raid.
    Tranq still only heals 5 people per tick, not the whole raid. The Monk raid CD, Revival, does heal everyone, but its total healing is far less than either a full tranq or HTT.

    That said, a lot of what I have been seeing is that Shams are falling behind a bit. Maybe its because most of the world has only seen a few bosses are might be overhealing them, lessening the opportunity for mastery to kick-in.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord
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    maybe once heroic modes become available, we'll have a chance to shine again

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    We don't have an easy time, that's true. We aren't that good at healing a spread-out raid, that's true. And yes, we do work very hard to accomplish this despite our lack of suitable AoE heals for such a task.

    BUT. We can manage. It's not easy. And it's definitely not easy to keep up with good healing partners. But I'll stubbornly say that we still make it work somehow.

    T15-4pc will help a lot. It was crazy on the PTR. I can't wait to get my greedy little hands on it. For 25-man shamans, it seems rather suboptimal, so I'd perhaps opt for nonset pieces, but for 10-mans where you do a lot of single-target healing... boy, I can't wait. So much free healing bouncing around, so little overheal due to smart-healing. The thought of getting 4pc makes me a bit giddy.

    @OP: I picked a log and had a look at hps. The shamy is as good as equal with the other healers (at least if you don't take Spirit Shell into account; it hurts shaman hps, but is very good for the raid). It's normal that your hps suffer when absorbs play a large role in an encounter. Seems very acceptable though. Looks like you have a good team going there.

    Oh and... psst psst, don't forget to Unleash Life before you cast Healing Rain. I noticed you forgot to do that in the log that I checked. Really, do it. And I just grabbed another random log, just to show you for emphasis: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/38u7r...#tab-healspell An entire raid night with only 1 Unleash Life used, but a lot of Healing Rain usage.
    Last edited by Seriss; 2013-03-07 at 03:40 PM.

  16. #16
    If we utilize our CDs correctly, our HPS can be quite high. On our Jin'rokh kill on Tuesday, I was just shy of 90k hps when the fight was through and about 4-5% higher than our other 2 healers.

    We(resto shams) are also usually dpsing at some point of most fights as well, which takes away from overall HPS.

    It's also not always about "competition". There are 5 healing classes and not all of them will have the exact same(or similar) hps. If you're a good player, not dying & killing bosses HPS really doesn't matter. Also remember that not all players are equal in skill. The type of computer/graphics card you have comes into play as well. I just recently upgraded to an i7 and have already noticed a bit of a bump in my hps this week. Everything is much smoother and I'm running 50-60fps now instead of 25-35ish. It does make a difference.

    I guess I'm pretty happy with where resto shamans are at. If a healer is above me in hps all that does is motivate me to push a bit harder, which is always a good thing.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyspice View Post
    If we utilize our CDs correctly, our HPS can be quite high. On our Jin'rokh kill on Tuesday, I was just shy of 90k hps when the fight was through and about 4-5% higher than our other 2 healers.

    We(resto shams) are also usually dpsing at some point of most fights as well, which takes away from overall HPS.

    It's also not always about "competition". There are 5 healing classes and not all of them will have the exact same(or similar) hps. If you're a good player, not dying & killing bosses HPS really doesn't matter. Also remember that not all players are equal in skill. The type of computer/graphics card you have comes into play as well. I just recently upgraded to an i7 and have already noticed a bit of a bump in my hps this week. Everything is much smoother and I'm running 50-60fps now instead of 25-35ish. It does make a difference.

    I guess I'm pretty happy with where resto shamans are at. If a healer is above me in hps all that does is motivate me to push a bit harder, which is always a good thing.
    Yes I did push around 90k HPS on jin'rokh, too. And my overhealing was like 20-25%. But on our other group, when I was on my 20 ilvl lower monk, I pushed the same 90k HPS with 50% overheal. The same pattern was going on with the other bosses, too. On Council I was really struggling with mana as shaman, and I almost couldn't keep up with the damage on my HPS; on monk - no issues at all.
    Last edited by Puupi; 2013-03-07 at 04:33 PM.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyspice View Post
    We(resto shams) are also usually dpsing at some point of most fights as well, which takes away from overall HPS.
    This is why I almost never look at healing meters. As the 3rd healer, I feel I'm only supposed to chip in healing as required and dps the rest of the time.

  19. #19
    Resto Shaman healing is weak in 10man compared to 25man. In T14 25man, Resto Shamans were doing quite well, competing very well with Disc and Paladins even though they were very powerful. The nerf to Discs will help Resto Shamans shine even more in 25man (Paladins needed a nerf as well, not sure if they are, didn't follow their changes).

    For T14 10man, Resto Shaman was as weak as Resto Druids on most fights and even weaker then them on some. The two main reasons for that are, 1) HR is VERY SITUATIONAL, 2) CH is garbage, glyphing it is a must to make it a useful spell but with a cost. In 10man you are resorted to single target healing for quite a decent amount. Set bonuses didn't really help cause they were nonsense. HR being very situational and limited effects Ascendance alot.

    But I guess the 2P and 4P in this tier are designed keeping that in mind. 2P feels really powerful to me for both 10man and 25man (it was nerfed really fast, was 50% extra healing, now it's 25%). Not a big fan of 4P as it looks useless for 25man, you hardly use single target heals besides Riptide, but it's going to be ace for 10man.

    Tbh, I do feel Blizzard needs to buff CH. It's really lacking atm for 10man. The mana cost should be reduced to 12500 and the jump should be increased to 18 yards I believe (so that it's useful in 10man on melee, atm sometimes tanks and melee dps more then 12 yards apart on bosses so CH doesn't jump, making it worthless to cast).
    Last edited by Waterisbest; 2013-03-07 at 05:46 PM.
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  20. #20
    R Shaman is feeling pretty weak in 25 so far as well. So many of the new encounters have raid mechanics that require spread ranged, and this is where we really struggle. My group is up to 5/12 so far this week, and I was competitive in only 2 of those encounters, Jin'rokh (pushover anyway) and council. Both of these fights are mostly stacked fights. We fared well in tier 14 as it was almost all of the fights allowed for some degree of stacking. That does not appear to be case in tier 15. In the end though, spread raid healing has been a weakness for a long time, and I doubt we see any change. I too would love to see some chain heal buffing as it has zero effect on pvp.

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