Anyone else thinking resto (10m) is quite broken?

[mrinvisable2]

Even so... to base healing output only on a tier bonus... seems rather strange. Since other classes will have their bonus too, besides that, it will take 1-2 month until most guilds have 4 pieces.

because they always fix shamans with set bonuses as they cant buff shamans without making us op again

[shell]

You are all talking that resto shaman in pvp is quite strong and I will tell you now, they are not. so please, cut that bull. Yes, we were strong during cata seasons and even with the nerf to wind shear, we were still strong.

But season 12, we were under holy paladins, paladins healed more for less and had more utility (like the Hands, immunity, silence immunity for 6 secs compared to us of 4), we were under monks with the fact they can both dps and heal at the same time and disc priests were strong aswell with their utilities.

Following our silence nerf which was aimed for the PvP community (as I can only recall a few encounters silencing you in PvE), we were in a worse place then we already were (hence I still say that that silence nerf was completly unnecessary).

Here is a post from Nsx, multi-glad on his shaman, that he also no longer played shaman during season 12 and his reasoning behind it:



Therefore, resto shamans are not as strong in PvP as you all might think currently. In fact, we are also doing bad.

Holy Paladins were stronger but not monks and priests. Resto was solidly #2 on glad representation for healers. Glad representation went Pally>Shaman>Druid and the others were basically non-existent as there was 1 priest and 0 monks. http://www.arenajunkies.com/news/617...diator-titles/

In the wall of text you quoted from Nevershock, he said he didn't play shaman in s12 because,

1. He fell behind on gear and couldn't catch up.
2. Holy Paladins were better for all the melee cleaves he was facing (particularly KFC).

He concluded his post by saying he's coming back once the new season starts.

So this idea that "in fact, we are also doing bad" is misplaced. Saying pvp resto is bad because holy is doing better would be like saying pve arcane was bad because affliction was doing better. Being second doesn't make anyone bad.

Having said that, I think they're going to have to bite the bullet and change resto mastery. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening this expansion. They did that with resto druids at the beginning of cata and they were most definitely not pleased. So I don't think they want to do that again with another spec.

[Schadow]

He concluded his post by saying he's coming back once the new season starts.

So this idea that "in fact, we are also doing bad" is misplaced. Saying pvp resto is bad because holy is doing better would be like saying pve arcane was bad because affliction was doing better. Being second doesn't make anyone bad.

Okay, I give you correct in that. But even so, there is no more reason for anyone to call us OP, we're not anymore. So I still do not see why that silence nerf was needed as even before, we were no longer OP.

Edit:

http://tinyurl.com/bh7tp3b

This is a mix and moisture of Throne of Thunder ilvl 522 items where my aim was 11471 haste as that is the next breakpoint with HTT with AS and 5% haste of the raid. Even with all the ToT gear, it was still hard to go for that number and Mastery and Crit has been highly affected by it.

However, manageable is a spirit of 12.5k. That sounds a lot as I am on 8.5k, but I do not know (and I can't test it with Rawr) how much mana straining this will be. But with heroic/thunderforged gear and professions, this can be a bit more relaxing.

Notice that there is no spirit+haste helm, belt and weapon from ToT. What do you think of this?

Edit 2:

for those that mistrust tinyurl.com, here is the full link

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...0.4434.0.76651

[Waterisbest]

Some people have created post on officials forums asking for Resto SHaman buffs. I see a few on EU forums, but none of US. Come on guys we need to make some more noise.

TO THE OFFICIAL FORUMS EVERYONE!! RRRRRRAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRRR!

[MrWilson]

Some people have created post on officials forums asking for Resto SHaman buffs. I see a few on EU forums, but none of US. Come on guys we need to make some more noise.

TO THE OFFICIAL FORUMS EVERYONE!! RRRRRRAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRRR!

Do you have a link? ^^

[Puupi]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/874796/

[rmlunsford]

Yeah its a shame, my 25m healing team has 3 resto shaman in it. We're relatively casual, went 9/16 HC last tier and we're currently 5/12 or whatever after the first two nights of raiding. Its still really early but it sure felt like having 3 of us totally gimped the heal team and I'll be sitting at least 1 of them and possibly playing my priest myself. We need a tool that replaces HR when HR is not usable. Its ridiculous that we are the only class that can't heal a spread out raid efficiently. The saddest part is this has been brought up thousands of times by thousands of people and has not been addressed at all.

[Waterisbest]

Yeah its a shame, my 25m healing team has 3 resto shaman in it. We're relatively casual, went 9/16 HC last tier and we're currently 5/12 or whatever after the first two nights of raiding. Its still really early but it sure felt like having 3 of us totally gimped the heal team and I'll be sitting at least 1 of them and possibly playing my priest myself. We need a tool that replaces HR when HR is not usable. Its ridiculous that we are the only class that can't heal a spread out raid efficiently. The saddest part is this has been brought up thousands of times by thousands of people and has not been addressed at all.

Agreed. It's really frustrating we are limited by range AND by health, while other healers can put out very similar amount of healing regardless of the situation.

[Zues]

Yeah its a shame, my 25m healing team has 3 resto shaman in it. We're relatively casual, went 9/16 HC last tier and we're currently 5/12 or whatever after the first two nights of raiding. Its still really early but it sure felt like having 3 of us totally gimped the heal team and I'll be sitting at least 1 of them and possibly playing my priest myself. We need a tool that replaces HR when HR is not usable. Its ridiculous that we are the only class that can't heal a spread out raid efficiently. The saddest part is this has been brought up thousands of times by thousands of people and has not been addressed at all.

You're 25 man, HR requires 6+ people to be effective. That shouldn't really be an issue for most of the ToT fights.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 10:41 PM ----------

Also, in my 10 man group, I'm reforging into crit until I get 4pc, and then I'm going haste to get the most out of it. Mixed gems throughout my gear. Planning to use the Horridon trinket, along with the one of Megeara. At my spirit levels, which are decent considering my guild broke up after going 10/16H last tier, I don't really oom.

In 10 man, just gotta be clutch with those empowered HR's, always making sure you throw one down whenever a decent amount of raid members stays stationary for 6< seconds. Other than that, it's just CH on clustered groups, and GHW/HS spam on people who dip. You have to constantly be on your toes to make sure the other healers in your group don't accidentally snipe all the heals while you overheal with slow casts, leading them to complain why you're sitting at 100% mana while they're oom.

[Jerret]

Schadow, just a bit curious as to why you wouldn't use our 4 piece(if you're healing 10man). Your mastery is extremely low. Shamans can be extremely useful with 50% mastery for situations where someone is very low(specifically tanks/really good for heroics/fights like Dark Animus). Right now where we're at I feel like the best possible thing we can do in 10man is still go for spirit, reach 50% mastery, have 4 piece, and then go for haste. Although it would be nice with the amount of haste you posted, but we'd have low throughput from resurgence, AA, and extremely low mastery. The 2 piece is already good as hell without high haste. I am fairly new to shaman(mop baby), but I've been healing as a holy paladin since early wotlk. I've grown to love this class, but it is really weak right now.

We're currently 10/12. Cloudburn on Mal'Ganis. Guild - Mythic (10man)

I've sat for a couple of the earlier fights, because shamans are so much weaker to have in raid when 2 healing versus a paladin/monk.

Can't link logs yet(since i'm a new poster on here), but they're all posted on our guild if anyone has any advice or needs pointers for specific fights. Always willing to theorycraft/chat with other resto shamans! my battletag is Jerbear#1287

[Tiberria]

Raidbots data has Shaman as far behind in 25 man as they are in 10 man. It really isn't at all suprising; we were 5th of 6 healing specs in T14 with Druids seeing significant buffs and the fight mechanics shifting to being terrible for Shaman AoE healing. It isn't even just getting 6 people in a Healing Rain; there are fights where there is so much movement that the raid moves out of the Healing Rain well before the 10 seconds are up.

[Schadow]

Schadow, just a bit curious as to why you wouldn't use our 4 piece(if you're healing 10man).

I'm healing 25-man primarly.

Shamans can be extremely useful with 50% mastery for situations where someone is very low(specifically tanks/really good for heroics/fights like Dark Animus). Right now where we're at I feel like the best possible thing we can do in 10man is still go for spirit, reach 50% mastery, have 4 piece, and then go for haste. Although it would be nice with the amount of haste you posted, but we'd have low throughput from resurgence, AA, and extremely low mastery. The 2 piece is already good as hell without high haste. I am fairly new to shaman(mop baby), but I've been healing as a holy paladin since early wotlk. I've grown to love this class, but it is really weak right now.

For 10-mans yes and this is also the case for 25-mans at the first part. spirit, 45-50% mastery and, then what? The 4 piece sounds pretty bad for 25-mans, it will be king for 10-mans. This sounds to me more that there will be different stat priorities for the different raid sizes.

The values I posted is just the amount of haste going for a full haste build. Note that the mastery will be about 32% mastery, so it still is not that bad for a full haste build. The 2 piece is awesome for both 10 and 25-mans and the new HST tick is at 8882 haste (9000 due to lag issues) which can be managed if you gear for haste.

But the gear build is full normal, you still have thunderforged and heroic options left (and by the looks of it, Thunderforged drops a lot better then I expected).

That you're a "mop baby" does not change my opinion, nor does it matter.

I can't seem to get the right formula working though to represent a cast time of Chain Heal.

Some people have created post on officials forums asking for Resto SHaman buffs. I see a few on EU forums, but none of US. Come on guys we need to make some more noise.

TO THE OFFICIAL FORUMS EVERYONE!! RRRRRRAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRRR!

I will voice my opinion there tomorrow, way too tired now to also start typing on the official forums.

[Jerret]

I'm healing 25-man.

Ah, yeah I can see haste being extremely valuable in 25man. 2 piece as well. You also mainly raid heal in 25man though, correct? Mastery may be less valuable for you in 25man. In 10man I have to tank heal a lot. Our paladin is really good and our monk raid heals extremely well.

[Schadow]

Ah, yeah I can see haste being extremely valuable in 25man. 2 piece as well. You also mainly raid heal in 25man though, correct? Mastery may be less valuable for you in 25man. In 10man I have to tank heal a lot. Our paladin is really good and our monk raid heals extremely well.

And there you have it. Paladin heals tank, monk heals raid. Shammies? Fillers. which ain't that bad, but if we do less HPS, then it's bad.

for 10-mans, you can go haste aswell, but it depends on your playstyle and preferences. As for me, I can't live without a chunk of haste under my butt.

Edited my first reply for more info btw

[Zues]

I mean, you gotta realize that shamans have been the red headed stepchildren of WoW for quite some time now. When did we shine last? T13, the biggest joke of a raid tier thus far? T10 for CH spam?

[Schadow]

I mean, you gotta realize that shamans have been the red headed stepchildren of WoW for quite some time now. When did we shine last? T13, the biggest joke of a raid tier thus far? T10 for CH spam?

T10 and Chain Heal? I remember T10 more as LHW spam. T13 was the last raid tier we shined upon, so not that long ago. It has always been like that throughout the ages of WoW that we shined at the end of an expansion.

T3, T6, T10, T13, those were the tiers we really were shined upon and I have no doubt in my mind T17 will be the same. That's when everybody suddenly wants shamans in the raid (and when everybody yells we are OP). And each time after, we get nerfed to smitheriens.

I think you meant T6 with Chain Heal btw

[Bigbamboozal]

I think the entire of the resto shaman community is broken. Or at the very least, frustrating. Pro tip : there is another class out there with a resto spec, you don't own the name resto. Please, for all that is shamanly good, attach the word shaman or shammy, or shami, to the word resto. I swear I have clicked on a few hundred posts this year alone, thinking it was going to be about druids.
I promise to beat the druid community about the head to get this in to them as well, it's sort of stupid to bitch about I guess, but it's starting to grind my gears for some unknown reason lol.

Our resto shaman is lowest on heals when I know he is a super reliable heals from years of raiding, I don't think it's gear/chants/gems/reforges, and I know he is up to par on rotation and appropriate use of abilities and up times, as well as mana management ect.
Quite possible you guys need some love.

[Jerret]

Well right now when stats are low(and in our current state), we are extremely weak. The build you linked doesn't sound bad for 25man since you will get more throughput. Also, one thing I found really vital is when you recall your HST/fire ele/earth ele at the last second with Glyph of Totemic Recall. That alone is a lot of mana gain. That glyph is pretty much mandatory for resto. I haven't swapped it out since I started raiding as a shaman in mop. Glyph of HST is really good too for most fights. I can see haste being more valuable in 25man though. I'm way too lazy to make a 10m bis list today.

I think the gylph of chain heal should be passive, or changed to prevent a cd, but NOT lower healing. Chain heals cast time is extremely long, and our single target heals just aren't as attractive. Let alone totem tracking like crazy and recalling them often, making searing totem less attractive, and HHT is too strong for me to even think of glyphing out of(since we're already good where we can lay rain/chain heal, making conductivity still not attractive). I don't really know what blizzard would agree to with a buff for us, but overall we're hurting really bad. I'm not even sure if blizzard would agree to a buff for us at this point. On the homepage of MMO where they discussed shamans; I feel like they focused purely too much on ele dps since it was pretty shitty. They completely missed resto, besides where they said "Ancestral Swiftness now provides 10% melee haste in order for Enhancement Shaman to take it more seriously as an option, while staying at 5% spell haste since Restoration Shaman already liked the talent." Which is a talent I haven't switched out of either(seems to be the best for us). The only talents I actively have to switch out are my first 3 tiers. The last 3 remain untouched for 10man playstyle.

[taheen74]

Hey there

Just noticed we didnt get any real buffs with 5.2 (except for healing rains mana costs reduced). Our priest/pala are (nearly) always higher in HPS / healing meters. I know they are not all for heals, but somehow this however sucks...

Am I performing that bad or is this the same on other groups? If you want to have a look at our logs, here they are: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/230588/

Regards
MrWilson

Your priest doesn't happen to be disc, are they? If so, you are playing with two classes that have absorb mechanics- that's why your healing looks like it's lower.

Absorbs going out mean less damage coming in which in turn means less healing needed.

[Tiberria]

T10 and Chain Heal? I remember T10 more as LHW spam. T13 was the last raid tier we shined upon, so not that long ago. It has always been like that throughout the ages of WoW that we shined at the end of an expansion.

T3, T6, T10, T13, those were the tiers we really were shined upon and I have no doubt in my mind T17 will be the same. That's when everybody suddenly wants shamans in the raid (and when everybody yells we are OP). And each time after, we get nerfed to smitheriens.

I think you meant T6 with Chain Heal btw

I think that you're viewing T10 and T13 as more favorable for Resto Shaman than they really were. Sure, they were decent in those tiers and viable, but were hardly dominant or even close to the best healer in either.

T10 - Pretty much every healer except Holy Priests was pretty strong in T10. Druids (excluding H LK) and Disc Priests dominated from an output perspective. Paladins were also extremely strong and on par with Shaman. Shaman were no better than the 3rd or 4th best healer that tier.

T13 - Overall throughput for the tier has Shaman as 4th out of 5 healing specs. The only reason we had the reputation of being amazing that tier was SLT and the fact that it broke game mechanics on Heroic Spine, causing Resto Shaman to be stacked. Outside of that, we were really only average, on a tier that was completely dominated by stacked AoE healing, our supposed strength.

Shaman have not had a dominant tier since T6. For the last 3 expansions and the last 9 tiers, they have essentially ranged from average to terrible, during a time frame where Paladins, Priests and Druids have all had multiple tiers where they dominated.