Anyone else thinking resto (10m) is quite broken?

[Shammyspice]

I've been hearing the word "mana battery" a lot lately.
Reminds me of Cataclysm LOL

[mjolnrik]

I disagree with this.

We once had a superior utility that compensated for our lower throughput.

This is no longer the case. Other healers recived utility buff and we are all more or less balanced on that area. But we didnt get the corresponding throughput buff.

The only utility we have now that other healers dont provide is Mana Tide, and not surprisingly is the only reason why top end guilds take a resto shaman with them.

We need a buff, and we need a spread raid heal (glyphs of chain heal and riptide are not)

I do agree we need a buff but I dont think mana tide is our only utility we have other healers dont. Can any other healer do heroism or stormlash totem? Both provide great dps which if struggling on an enrage timer may be all you need. How about grounding totem? Not always the best spell in raids i agree but it has avoided quite a bit of damage in my exp. Hex, do any other healers or any other class for instance, have a reliable long term cc which doesnt break on damage instantly? Say wind lord mer'jarak for instance, you see an add running towards the tank because the cc was broken by a missclick dot for example. The spear wont work, polymorph wont work, hex it, works great. Capacitor totem is also a pretty good stun. No other healer except monks have an aoe stun unless im mistaken, and they have to be in melee range to use it whilst we can have totemic projection.
We also have some of the best cooldowns out of all the healers and keeping people alive is alot more important than sniping every single 90% hp person and our mastery is like a lay on hands in disguise. "Boom 400k crit whats the problem tank". Healing tide is like a more powerful version of tranq. We can cast it and its effect works instantly which tranq works more gradual i find. And since its a totem we dont need to channel it. Tbh I would say its like a mini god mode. "oh shit, theres about to be an explosion and everyone is lowish on hp, GOD MODE ACTIVATED!! wait why was i even worried for a second" Ascendance whilst weaker and less mana efficient, still packs a punch and can dish out awesome healing, especially on stacked up moments with healing rain. Spirit link, is like a 6second of noone dieing and if we talent it we can have a self hero every 1.30mins.
Those are just some other great utility that I can think of off the top of my head which i cant see any other healers having.

[rmlunsford]

I do agree we need a buff but I dont think mana tide is our only utility we have other healers dont. Can any other healer do heroism or stormlash totem? Both provide great dps which if struggling on an enrage timer may be all you need. How about grounding totem? Not always the best spell in raids i agree but it has avoided quite a bit of damage in my exp. Hex, do any other healers or any other class for instance, have a reliable long term cc which doesnt break on damage instantly? Say wind lord mer'jarak for instance, you see an add running towards the tank because the cc was broken by a missclick dot for example. The spear wont work, polymorph wont work, hex it, works great. Capacitor totem is also a pretty good stun. No other healer except monks have an aoe stun unless im mistaken, and they have to be in melee range to use it whilst we can have totemic projection.
We also have some of the best cooldowns out of all the healers and keeping people alive is alot more important than sniping every single 90% hp person and our mastery is like a lay on hands in disguise. "Boom 400k crit whats the problem tank". Healing tide is like a more powerful version of tranq. We can cast it and its effect works instantly which tranq works more gradual i find. And since its a totem we dont need to channel it. Tbh I would say its like a mini god mode. "oh shit, theres about to be an explosion and everyone is lowish on hp, GOD MODE ACTIVATED!! wait why was i even worried for a second" Ascendance whilst weaker and less mana efficient, still packs a punch and can dish out awesome healing, especially on stacked up moments with healing rain. Spirit link, is like a 6second of noone dieing and if we talent it we can have a self hero every 1.30mins.
Those are just some other great utility that I can think of off the top of my head which i cant see any other healers having.

So cc, healing cool downs and a stun? We're there to heal man, not cc and stun, plenty of classes can cc and stun!

[mjolnrik]

So cc, healing cool downs and a stun? We're there to heal man, not cc and stun, plenty of classes can cc and stun!

first cc and stun wasnt the only utility i added. Second healing cooldowns are infact, you guessed it healing xD which as I said before is probably better at keeping people alive than any of the other healer cooldowns except maybe spirit shell. And third the point of my post wasnt to say that other classes can do it too, it was just to say that we can provide utility that other healers dont have despite if it helps with our healing or not. And if you think about it, cc and stuns can reduce damage on certain fights alot more than anything. Another thing we have i just thought of is whilst nerfed, we also have a good ranged interrupt. Say for instance council of elders, just having an extra interrupt on sand bolt can reduce the damage by a hell of an amount which else would need to be healed through. Paladins need to be in melee range so its less convenient, priests dont even have one unless im mistaken. Dps are constantly switching targets on that fight so having a healer who can interrupt is perfect

But as i said before, I do entirely agree we need a buff. We are lower at healing than any other class which has been slowly catching up on utility over the years

[takolin]

I do agree we need a buff but I dont think mana tide is our only utility we have other healers dont. Can any other healer do heroism or stormlash totem? Both provide great dps which if struggling on an enrage timer may be all you need. How about grounding totem? Not always the best spell in raids i agree but it has avoided quite a bit of damage in my exp. Hex, do any other healers or any other class for instance, have a reliable long term cc which doesnt break on damage instantly? Say wind lord mer'jarak for instance, you see an add running towards the tank because the cc was broken by a missclick dot for example. The spear wont work, polymorph wont work, hex it, works great. Capacitor totem is also a pretty good stun. No other healer except monks have an aoe stun unless im mistaken, and they have to be in melee range to use it whilst we can have totemic projection.
We also have some of the best cooldowns out of all the healers and keeping people alive is alot more important than sniping every single 90% hp person and our mastery is like a lay on hands in disguise. "Boom 400k crit whats the problem tank". Healing tide is like a more powerful version of tranq. We can cast it and its effect works instantly which tranq works more gradual i find. And since its a totem we dont need to channel it. Tbh I would say its like a mini god mode. "oh shit, theres about to be an explosion and everyone is lowish on hp, GOD MODE ACTIVATED!! wait why was i even worried for a second" Ascendance whilst weaker and less mana efficient, still packs a punch and can dish out awesome healing, especially on stacked up moments with healing rain. Spirit link, is like a 6second of noone dieing and if we talent it we can have a self hero every 1.30mins.
Those are just some other great utility that I can think of off the top of my head which i cant see any other healers having.

Damage: Discs and fistweaving monks adds a nice chunk of damage. And both can fill the role of half a healer on fights with enough raid damage to make sure that 2 healing is nearly impossible while you can't use 5 dps because you'll reach the enrage. A shaman with Stormlash won't be able to change that and don't forgot that all mage specs, 1 hunter spec and 2 other shaman specs can bring bloodlust. You also might be able to switch out the resto sham on 3 healing fights with a ele/enh shaman who just pops a healing CD when needed. A lot more extra damage that way.

CC: Hex in a raid won't last enough on a dotted mob and can't be spammed. And paladins bring a minute CC as well in the form of repentance.

CDs: all healers have CDs. We might be king of CDs but HTT isn't always the best option. Sometimes you're better of preventing the damage with barrier, SS or devo aura than to get people back up afterwards.

[Seriss]

Had to heal Primordius and Dark Animus today. I'm feeling awful

[Rafal]

Had to heal Primordius and Dark Animus today. I'm feeling awful

I'm depressed =( anyways I'm gunna stop stalking these forms and reroll I cant take it anymore. GL guys

[gunner007]

It's slowly starting to sink a bit in since the release of MoP for me. At the beginning I found myself competitive with our disc priest, and holy paladin who would respec from ret as needed when we 3 healed. However since the release of ToT, I find myself being continually crushed by our disc. Not by a few thousand HPS, but literally 1.5-2x my own. I honestly couldn't figure out what I've been doing wrong. I've gemmed full spirit, I've gone with int gems, just about every reforge possible and I cannot even touch his numbers. I think Council was the only place where I trailed a few thousand HPS. Our kill on Megera had me at 72k, and him at 108. It gets about 10x worse with a holy paladin, as our raid never goes low enough for mastery to be valuable so I've been stacking crit.

The frustration is that the resto shaman falls into separate ideals, both which are completely different depending on raid size. In 10 man, CH just doesn't have the oomph it really needs. Sure I glyph it for the extra range to bounce, but there's nothing more frustating than watching a 2s CH cast, and seeing Cascade bounce around before CH even lands. Also have fun if that person moves from some reason. HST with the 2pc has become the staple for healing, outside of some single target heals here and there, and even HR has limited use since it caps off so quickly for more than 5 people. I honestly have felt like I'm only there to push the big cooldowns when they're needed, and tide when our disc calls for both hymns. Rolling riptides doesn't work in 10, even worse if you heal with any absorb healer. It just ends up being more of a mana drain then neccessary. Some talents just feel out of place as well. I know you can relocate totems with a talent, but it's too much to ask to allow SLT to be placed similar to barrier. I know a lot of changes have drastic results in PvP which is why things are probably the status quo.

Even the level 90 talents feel lackluster at best. Unleashed's only use for me in 10 was Tsulong, and I find myself using more of the elementals as either DPS to meet timers, or for personal CD's to buff the larger CD's. Elemental blast, well, it was never really even viable for resto anyway. I'm just at a loss where the shaman class stands. I know disc had been nerfed, but hell, I've never been beaten this badly. I feel like as a shaman 10, I'm holding the proverbial *@$^ in my hand, and just there for the "oh shit" moments.

I understand the argument of utility, and to be honest, I'd rather them strip the utility of the class, and balance it on it's own merits rather than balance it based on the fact we're a battery for mana. Who knows, but it's god-damn depressing at this point.

[Deleted]

How is it ok that we're great in pvp and not in pve but not the other way around? It's a fucking pve game ffs. Can we please balance pve first? Fix chain heal and healing rain it's your fucking job blizzard...

[Seriss]

How is it ok that we're great in pvp and not in pve but not the other way around? It's a fucking pve game ffs. Can we please balance pve first? Fix chain heal and healing rain it's your fucking job blizzard...

Yeah, I could live with being annihilated in pvp because it's just a small part of the game and depends a lot on the people you're playing with anyway (peels and CC and such). Arenas aren't balanced anyway, and if you're not playing the right comp, you have no business there anyway what with teams being so small and some classes simply synergizing better and having better counters for other fotm classes. I'd have absolutely no problem losing my ranged interrupt, my grounding totem, my earthbind totem, my capacitor totem. We're cast-time dependent healers anyway and what with the amount of silences in the game, we're easy to shut down. So... remove that stupid utility crap from resto and just allow us to enjoy our class in PvE again, feeling like an asset to our raids instead of a liability, no matter how hard we try.

I'm doing 10-man these days (and feeling terrible while raiding because I can never completely shake the idea that I'm holding the raid back), but from what we hear from 25s, there isn't even much room for us in a 25-man raid due to our deficiencies. We can do so much, we have so many buttons to press... but only few of those buttons do things that fit in with what is required. Outside of our CDs, we're as good as worthless. We have to cast costly heals that are more acts of desperation than they are the right answer to the damage patterns. We're blowing huge amounts of mana on single-target heals, hoping that the people that we haven't got to yet get a smart heal via AA or simply just survive until we can get to them, when we'd need some decent AoE-heals.

[Tiberria]

PvE Resto has been suffering from PvP balance issues being one of the reasons we can't get necessary buffs for quite some time. At some point, they should just buff what they need to buff for PvE, crippling PvP if that's what it takes. It is the PvP side of the spec's turn to deal with it once.

[Crashdummy]

I do agree we need a buff but I dont think mana tide is our only utility we have other healers dont. Can any other healer do heroism or stormlash totem? Both provide great dps which if struggling on an enrage timer may be all you need. How about grounding totem? Not always the best spell in raids i agree but it has avoided quite a bit of damage in my exp. Hex, do any other healers or any other class for instance, have a reliable long term cc which doesnt break on damage instantly? Say wind lord mer'jarak for instance, you see an add running towards the tank because the cc was broken by a missclick dot for example. The spear wont work, polymorph wont work, hex it, works great. Capacitor totem is also a pretty good stun. No other healer except monks have an aoe stun unless im mistaken, and they have to be in melee range to use it whilst we can have totemic projection.
We also have some of the best cooldowns out of all the healers and keeping people alive is alot more important than sniping every single 90% hp person and our mastery is like a lay on hands in disguise. "Boom 400k crit whats the problem tank". Healing tide is like a more powerful version of tranq. We can cast it and its effect works instantly which tranq works more gradual i find. And since its a totem we dont need to channel it. Tbh I would say its like a mini god mode. "oh shit, theres about to be an explosion and everyone is lowish on hp, GOD MODE ACTIVATED!! wait why was i even worried for a second" Ascendance whilst weaker and less mana efficient, still packs a punch and can dish out awesome healing, especially on stacked up moments with healing rain. Spirit link, is like a 6second of noone dieing and if we talent it we can have a self hero every 1.30mins.
Those are just some other great utility that I can think of off the top of my head which i cant see any other healers having.

Heroism, stormlash, capacitor, grounding, hex are NOT a resto utility. Every shaman has them. Also, hex breaks earlier for resto.

HTT is not a great cd on 25 man, since it only affects 5 people, Ascendance affect targets in a 20 yard range which is quite low to be honest, which again comes to our spread raid problem. Spirit link has a 10 yard range, again.

We are crap unless the raid is very tightly gathered.

Tranquility has a HUGE radius, the same as Divine Hymn, and dont let me started on things like Cascade for example, and i am not even getting near the god mode healers that paladin and disc priests are.

The "self hero every 1:30" takes away our HTT if we talent it, and means that we can single target raid healing a little bit faster, just that.

They gave the rest of the healers really powerfull AOE heals that heals stacked raids, but they didnt give us spread out heals, meaning the only real utility we can bring to the raid that is not brought by others is indeed mana tide. 18k spirit shamans should give you a hint on what we are being used to, and dont even thing about the problem being Mana Tide being too powerfull, its not, its just the only thing we are better at.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 09:33 AM ----------

PvE Resto has been suffering from PvP balance issues being one of the reasons we can't get necessary buffs for quite some time. At some point, they should just buff what they need to buff for PvE, crippling PvP if that's what it takes. It is the PvP side of the spec's turn to deal with it once.

What we mostly need wont affect PVP.

A heal that heals spread raids will NOT affect PVP that much (yeah,l we would be more usefull in battlegrounds, but thats not where the risk of us becoming gods is, its in Arenas, where a spread out heal wont change much) and a little more throughput wont change much either.

So no, PVP isnt the only reason, although i dont know which is the real reason why they dont fix us.

[Deleted]

We are brought as mana tide buffs, and that's the long and short of it folks - we offer pretty much nothing unique to a raid anymore.

Raid mechanics 101 - spread and movement - killing shamans since the beginning.

Remember when we we're told the games engine couldn't handle more than a 12 yard range on CH, then we suddenly got a glyph? Ch needs to be 30 yards as base and have no diminishing returns on the jumps.

We need to be given some sort of reactive jump hot - any target afflicted with riptide you hit this ability and it spreads it to the lowest hp members of the raid within 20 yards of the original target.

[Shammyspice]

Man, this is sad. Time to re-roll. I'm thinking resto druid. I have one at 90 but she needs a lot of gear. I don't think she's even 460 yet. D:

[MrWilson]

It's slowly starting to sink a bit in since the release of MoP for me. At the beginning I found myself competitive with our disc priest, and holy paladin who would respec from ret as needed when we 3 healed. However since the release of ToT, I find myself being continually crushed by our disc. Not by a few thousand HPS, but literally 1.5-2x my own. I honestly couldn't figure out what I've been doing wrong. I've gemmed full spirit, I've gone with int gems, just about every reforge possible and I cannot even touch his numbers. I think Council was the only place where I trailed a few thousand HPS. Our kill on Megera had me at 72k, and him at 108. It gets about 10x worse with a holy paladin, as our raid never goes low enough for mastery to be valuable so I've been stacking crit.

The frustration is that the resto shaman falls into separate ideals, both which are completely different depending on raid size. In 10 man, CH just doesn't have the oomph it really needs. Sure I glyph it for the extra range to bounce, but there's nothing more frustating than watching a 2s CH cast, and seeing Cascade bounce around before CH even lands. Also have fun if that person moves from some reason. HST with the 2pc has become the staple for healing, outside of some single target heals here and there, and even HR has limited use since it caps off so quickly for more than 5 people. I honestly have felt like I'm only there to push the big cooldowns when they're needed, and tide when our disc calls for both hymns. Rolling riptides doesn't work in 10, even worse if you heal with any absorb healer. It just ends up being more of a mana drain then neccessary. Some talents just feel out of place as well. I know you can relocate totems with a talent, but it's too much to ask to allow SLT to be placed similar to barrier. I know a lot of changes have drastic results in PvP which is why things are probably the status quo.

Even the level 90 talents feel lackluster at best. Unleashed's only use for me in 10 was Tsulong, and I find myself using more of the elementals as either DPS to meet timers, or for personal CD's to buff the larger CD's. Elemental blast, well, it was never really even viable for resto anyway. I'm just at a loss where the shaman class stands. I know disc had been nerfed, but hell, I've never been beaten this badly. I feel like as a shaman 10, I'm holding the proverbial *@$^ in my hand, and just there for the "oh shit" moments.

I understand the argument of utility, and to be honest, I'd rather them strip the utility of the class, and balance it on it's own merits rather than balance it based on the fact we're a battery for mana. Who knows, but it's god-damn depressing at this point.

This! No need to add anything...

[stomination]

Man, this is sad. Time to re-roll. I'm thinking resto druid. I have one at 90 but she needs a lot of gear. I don't think she's even 460 yet. D:

Last tier it was resto druids. Are you going to reroll everytime your class isnt up to snuff?

[Puupi]

Last tier it was resto druids. Are you going to reroll everytime your class isnt up to snuff?

T14 druids and shamans were equal, holding the 5th and 6th spot. Now shaman is by far the worst healer.

[mjolnrik]

Heroism, stormlash, capacitor, grounding, hex are NOT a resto utility. Every shaman has them. Also, hex breaks earlier for resto.

Sorry but as i have said twice already, im talking about what we have that other healers do not, not about other shamans. And i dont think hex breaks any earlier for resto anymore. I know it used to break depending on your hit rating but now we have a passive named spiritual insight which says grants hex 15% hit chance thus making it hit capped.

HTT is not a great cd on 25 man, since it only affects 5 people, Ascendance affect targets in a 20 yard range which is quite low to be honest, which again comes to our spread raid problem. Spirit link has a 10 yard range, again.

First the thread title specifically says 10man, second every cooldown has a place for everything, spirit link in my opinion is the most powerful cooldown we have spite its short range and duration just because its an absolutely life saving cooldown which can save a tank or any raid member during a stacked up period if used right.

We are crap unless the raid is very tightly gathered.

Yea i agree with this, we do need more abilities to spread healing, and a general buff overall

Tranquility has a HUGE radius, the same as Divine Hymn, and dont let me started on things like Cascade for example, and i am not even getting near the god mode healers that paladin and disc priests are.

Tranq and divine hymn both require to be channeled and tranq especially needs to build up a bit before hand. Healing tide doesnt suffer from these. A stomp on garalon for example, precast healing tide. As soon as the stomp hits every1s hp is half up again before the purgency hits. And you say that priests and paladins can do god modes? Maybe they can do alot more healing overall but in the oh shit moments nothing beats a shamans cooldowns. As I said a shaman can save people more than a priest or paladin can just because we can get every1 back to full hp as quick as possible when needed whilst a priest (i havent played 1 much so correct me if im wrong) ends up having to predict the damage and negate it before hand in order to save people with spirit shell for instance. But what about when unpredictable damage gets through which could kill a raid?

The "self hero every 1:30" takes away our HTT if we talent it, and means that we can single target raid healing a little bit faster, just that.

Thats not true. To get elemental mastery you get rid of ancestral swiftness or echo of the elements. Since echo is bad for healing because of rng and AS, the passive haste isnt the best because of all the haste we have until we can reach higher haste caps easy thus gives us the instance heal. I would say EM is better than both by quite a margin. Who doesnt want a 30% haste for 20secs with a short cooldown for when the going gets tough?

[obnoxxious]

I've found getting the riptide haste breakpoint has helped a ton. in 10man my top 2 heals are (almost) always HST and riptide. I also found that stacking spirit is not the answer to our problems. if you buy the 522 valor trinket, it comes out to around 90k mana per fight. I was also lucky enough to snag the horridon trinket which comes out some pretty phenomenal regen. Coupling this regen with very active use on mana tide (dropping it as soon as possible to get as many uses out of it, usually around 260k mana), and decent use of totemic recall, i found that about 10.5k spirit has been the sweet spot to ending fights with around 10% mana (and I am by no means a pro at totemic recalling).

By soft-capping spirit at such a low level it allows for much higher throughput stats and seems to allow me to remain competitive with our other healers (although I am about 5-6 ilvls higher than them). Although you must remain on top of your mana regen cds or you'll oom.

[Shammyspice]

Last tier it was resto druids. Are you going to reroll everytime your class isnt up to snuff?

I dunno man. I've been healing all available content as a resto shaman since T6 and this is the first time I've ever even considered switching mains....Any more snarky remarks?

And besides, if someone wants to reroll every tier, what's wrong with that? Some people like change more often than others and maybe they do it to better suit a tier/their guild.