got my ass royally kicked while tanking ToT normal trash

[Deleted]

Yesterday, I got invited for a Throne of Thunder trash farm. so far, i've always used my DPS gear to tank with, and it worked out pretty well so far, although only in 5 man content.

my armory is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced and my weapon/shield combo is the 463 crafted mace and the 463 shield from gate of the setting sun final boss. both blue, but I didn't think that would be an issue.

so I enter the raid, along with a druid healer, a priest healer, a paladin healer and a druid tank and the rest DPS, and we start pulling. from then on, we enter an entirely different world of hurt. me and the druid tank kept dying and dying. we managed to do 2 full clears of the trash before jin'rokh, but I ended up dying on every single trashpull, and the druid on 75% on them as well, and often more than once (we ran back in since the portal was so close to the spirit healer). I thought that DPS gear was still viable for tanking? then why did I take so much damage?

[Zka]

And then you reset the raid difficulty to 10 man?

[Deleted]

And then you set back the difficulty to 10 man?

As far as I know, we didn't put it on 25 man. most trash mobs had 10M HP, which seems like it would be abit low for 25 man trash.

[Ehrenpanzer]

Yesterday, I got invited for a Throne of Thunder trash farm. so far, i've always used my DPS gear to tank with, and it worked out pretty well so far, although only in 5 man content.

my armory is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced and my weapon/shield combo is the 463 crafted mace and the 463 shield from gate of the setting sun final boss. both blue, but I didn't think that would be an issue.

so I enter the raid, along with a druid healer, a priest healer, a paladin healer and a druid tank and the rest DPS, and we start pulling. from then on, we enter an entirely different world of hurt. me and the druid tank kept dying and dying. we managed to do 2 full clears of the trash before jin'rokh, but I ended up dying on every single trashpull, and the druid on 75% on them as well, and often more than once (we ran back in since the portal was so close to the spirit healer). I thought that DPS gear was still viable for tanking? then why did I take so much damage?

nooooo....you couldnt tank the cutting edge raid trash in your dps gear? who'd have thought that a block tank with no block value would have issues like that....

[Revvo]

The trash hits fairly hard. During some of our trash farming our Main Blood tank and our prot pally died a few times, but that was right after servers went up and everyone's UI was still broken, so.

EDIT: not to mention all your gear is gemmed with strength as apposed to haste, so that's not helping much.

[XDurionX]

So tanking in dps gear is not viable in an actual raid? :-O

[Deleted]

nooooo....you couldnt tank the cutting edge raid trash in your dps gear? who'd have thought that a block tank with no block value would have issues like that....

don't be condescending like that. first off, block value is gone, and if you meant block rating, that's replaced with mastery, of which there is enough on DPS gear.

secondly, prot paladins are unique in that they can tank using DPS gear perfectly fine. I realize that my gear isn't cutting edge, but I thought it would be good enough to tank normal trash. Or am I that wrong in that respect?

edit: same goes for you, Durion. in fact, tanking in DPS gear is mathematically proven to be equal to tanking in tanking gear for paladins. they take slightly more damage, but the damage they take is far smoother, with less spikes.

[Excess1001]

Well from what it looks like you could barely do ToT LFR with your item level, and just like most other people are saying it sounds like you need to have some sort of defense rating to even walk in there. Tanking in your DPS gear is def. your issue.

[Deleted]

Well from what it looks like you could barely do ToT LFR with your item level, and just like most other people are saying it sounds like you need to have some sort of defense rating to even walk in there.

yeah, I think you're half right. I think my itemlevel is just too low to tank it with DPS gear. i'll wait for 5.2 LFR to come out, get some better DPS gear from there.

[Zogarth]

don't be condescending like that. first off, block value is gone, and if you meant block rating, that's replaced with mastery, of which there is enough on DPS gear.

secondly, prot paladins are unique in that they can tank using DPS gear perfectly fine. I realize that my gear isn't cutting edge, but I thought it would be good enough to tank normal trash. Or am I that wrong in that respect?

edit: same goes for you, Durion. in fact, tanking in DPS gear is mathematically proven to be equal to tanking in tanking gear for paladins. they take slightly more damage, but the damage they take is far smoother, with less spikes.

Ï would like to see your math. From what i know tanks use not only block, but also stamina, parry and dodge for tanking.

[Deleted]

Ï would like to see your math. From what i know tanks use not only block, but also stamina, parry and dodge for tanking.

http://sacredduty.net/2013/02/28/pat...s-simulations/

Theck explains it far better than I ever could.

[Martinussen]

Using dps gear for tanking new raid trash expecting not to die...

Dude, just wait until you reach the killer snails before Ji'kun. They're fun. Even the trash after Jin'rokh is a bitch.


Short story, trash is harder than bosses in the normal version of ToT.

[Nairobi]

nooooo....you couldnt tank the cutting edge raid trash in your dps gear? who'd have thought that a block tank with no block value would have issues like that....

Well from what it looks like you could barely do ToT LFR with your item level, and just like most other people are saying it sounds like you need to have some sort of defense rating to even walk in there. Tanking in your DPS gear is def. your issue.

Ï would like to see your math. From what i know tanks use not only block, but also stamina, parry and dodge for tanking.

How did you people find this forum?

There is no block value, block rating, or defense rating.

Prot pal does not favor dodge or parry gear; in fact, we avoid it. The block we get comes from mastery, which we get through the stat priority of Hit, Exp, Haste, Mastery. Stamina is just...there.

OP; if you're doing a trash run, you likely have a majority of undergeared and/or underexperienced players (since, otherwise they'd be raiding). The trash before JinRohk is harder than JinRohk. Seriously. And the Bridge Boss after is worse still (AND SNAKES!). Unless your DPS gear is all Crit based (IE no mastery or haste to act as actual tank stats), you'll be fine.

You're wise to use CDs early and often on the trash, and it's largely up to your healers. Pull small and pull back, as they WILL knock you into other mobs. Seriously, if you kill the trash, try JinRohk, as hes a complete JinJoke (LOL).

[nightfalls]

EDIT: not to mention all your gear is gemmed with strength as apposed to haste, so that's not helping much.

I thought you wanted pure yellows for both tanking and DPS.......

[Deleted]

for some reason, i'm attracting a lot of people who don't regularly post in the paladin forums. I know that many people like to lurk, but believe me when i say that paladins actually can viably use DPS gear for tanking. Could i get a paladin forum regular in here, like Requital, Anaxie, Synthaxx or Badpaladin? someone who actually knows something about paladin tanking?

I can totally accept that my gear is just underleveled, and I'm fairly sure that's a large part of the issue. but DPS gear should be fine to tank raids with, and takes less damage spikes.

[Raugnaut]

I thought you wanted pure yellows for both tanking and DPS.......

For a few classes. For most, 160 primary stats>320 secondaries. I think ret is one of them that prefers 160 strength to, say, 320 haste.

[Deleted]

my gems are still from a transitionary period, where my STR was worth more dan double my haste. but i'm switching it around now.

[Nairobi]

for some reason, i'm attracting a lot of people who don't regularly post in the paladin forums. I know that many people like to lurk, but believe me when i say that paladins actually can viably use DPS gear for tanking. Could i get a paladin forum regular in here, like Requital, Anaxie, Synthaxx or Badpaladin? someone who actually knows something about paladin tanking?

I can totally accept that my gear is just underleveled, and I'm fairly sure that's a large part of the issue. but DPS gear should be fine to tank raids with, and takes less damage spikes.

Req rerolled monk, and Anaxie I doubt will pop his head in a tank thread, but who knows. At any rate, you did seem to disturb the trolls. I said as much in my previous post. I think your issue lies with the general lack of cohesion in trash clearing pugs. The TOT trash is no joke, so don't expect to waltz over it. That said, as some have pointed out, you're gemming almost straight STR. This does little to nothing to help your DPS-Tank ability. At your ilvl, you'd be better off gemming straight haste (or str/haste, haste/hit when needed for bonus) for both Ret and Prot.

For a few classes. For most, 160 primary stats>320 secondaries. I think ret is one of them that prefers 160 strength to, say, 320 haste.

Newp. Ret (by and large, YMMV at very low OR very high gear levels) prefers 320 Haste > 160 STR.

[Deleted]

Not much to add since i know jack about paladins,just wanted to say hi,i was the raid leader of the trash run

[DrDreads]

Ohboy ok I'll bite, yes you can tank the trash in dps gear, however you're probably just a tad undergeared for it. I've done multiple trash runs with groups of 10 all the way down to a group of (4 guildies all with 504+ ilvl) even at my level trash still hurts, you just have to manage them properly and time CD's for certain effects.