1. #1
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    Surv Hunter stats 5.2 ?

    Someone pointed out to me, that My stats are now, Crit + Haste for Surv Hunter, I always thought it was Crit + Mastery ?

    of course hit + exp first, so what is surv hunters stats, crit/haste or crit/mastery, Im confused.
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  2. #2
    Same as before, Crit + mastery for BM and Surv. Crit + haste for MM.

  3. #3
    Everything is pretty close though once you have crit out of the way so if you don't feel like it is correct you will not be punished as hard as some other classes. (BM and Sur that is.)

  4. #4
    Crit/Mastery is by far the strongest for surv. Haste only shows at a marginally higher theoretical gain overall due to shot shifting, while mastery will provide added benefits in any situation where you're AOE'ing or keeping more than one serpent sting up.

  5. #5
    Mastery > haste even with a patchwerk boss ? (for sv )

    And what stats weights are you using ? because simc and fd always give haste > mastery so I don't realy know, atm, I use

    Crit: 1.60
    Mastery: 1.40
    Haste: 1.20

    Does this look ok?


    Thanks

  6. #6
    Sims are quirky with haste due to shot shifting. Goofy amounts of haste can result in an extra shot over the course of a 5 minute sim which causes the value of haste to peaks and valleys.

    I'm curious what you actually need the stat weights for? As long as you prioritize them correctly, the number you assign it is almost completely irrelevant. You could make crit 100 mastery 1 and haste .1 and end up with the exact same results as the numbers you posted above.

  7. #7
    Mastery starts to pull away on multitarget fights because of the Serpent Sting damage.

    Even if haste held a slight single target advantage, which I don't think it does, it wouldn't be worth reforging back and forth each fight. The tiny DPS gain just wouldn't be worth it.

    Conversely, if you dual spec SV and MM you could go haste>mastery if you want and would still be fine for SV. It's really just not a huge deal at this point.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aertea View Post
    Sims are quirky with haste due to shot shifting. Goofy amounts of haste can result in an extra shot over the course of a 5 minute sim which causes the value of haste to peaks and valleys.

    I'm curious what you actually need the stat weights for? As long as you prioritize them correctly, the number you assign it is almost completely irrelevant. You could make crit 100 mastery 1 and haste .1 and end up with the exact same results as the numbers you posted above.
    Yeah, but If I put :
    Crit: 1.60
    Mastery: 4.10
    Haste 1.20

    And (1.80/1.40/1- or 3/2/1) I dont have same results

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitalicqt View Post
    Yeah, but If I put :
    Crit: 1.60
    Mastery: 4.10
    Haste 1.20

    And (1.80/1.40/1- or 3/2/1) I dont have same results
    You should. Essentially what you're telling the reforge tool / sim is:
    Haste is my least valueable stat. Reforge out of this at all costs. Crit is my most valueable stat. Make sure it is on all my items. If my item already has crit, reforge haste into mastery.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    You should. Essentially what you're telling the reforge tool / sim is:
    Haste is my least valueable stat. Reforge out of this at all costs. Crit is my most valueable stat. Make sure it is on all my items. If my item already has crit, reforge haste into mastery.

    Hum, i'm ok but you have to take in consideration expertise and hit... atm i'm a bit lost with my reforge coz I don't have the same result at all

    (http://eu.battle.net/wow/fr/characte...3%ACc/advanced)

    Well i can't explain my problem so let's take a example:

    Atm, I have these stats with a 4/2/1 reforge (crit > mastery > haste)

    Hit: 2769 (this is shit)
    Exp: 2553
    Haste: 2775
    Crit: 6975
    Mastery: 4208

    If I put 3/2/1 reforge, I get:

    Haste: -180 (from original reforge (4/2/1) )
    Crit: -106
    Mastery: +288

    If I put 200/140/110 I get (from the 4/2/1 reforge)

    Hit: -99
    Crit: -21
    Haste: 373
    Mastery: -253


    So, last one is bad ok, but how I know the one I take between the 4/2/1 reforge and 3/2/1 reforge?

    I took the one with the most crit but I don't know if its worth it !

    Can you help me ?


    EDIT : Of course, i'm not asking which reforge should I go at the moment like "pls do my reforge ", my question is more global and I took an example to make it easy to understand
    Last edited by Vitalicqt; 2013-03-10 at 06:40 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitalicqt View Post
    Hum, i'm ok but you have to take in consideration expertise and hit... atm i'm a bit lost with my reforge coz I don't have the same result at all
    I use reforgelite ingame with the above stat weights. It's set to keep me at hit/exp cap and then to do crit>mastery>haste with the above weights. So, what it does in practice is has me a few hundredths of a % over 7.5% for hit and expertise and then crit, mastery, haste. I'm not sure the reforges are optimal, but they're close and I'm betting my skill is far more important that the last bit of reforge tweaking.

    This is me http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...levspet/simple

  12. #12
    Sims have shown this entire expansion and will continue to show haste being significantly ahead of mastery for survival, and I honestly see no reason behind people ignoring the only appropriate analysis that exists. You want logic behind why it's better? Mastery simply has an extremely low conversion rate and barely affects a majority of our damage.

    Another thing to keep in mind: with Blizzard's new found love of RPPM, haste's value will increase even more.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  13. #13
    Simulationcraft shows them almost exactly even on single target for me (0.99 for haste, 0.96 for mastery). I'm assuming that cleave or AoE situations where Serpent Sting makes up a much larger share of damage would push mastery ahead.

    That said, it does look like a scaling/itemization thing (My hunter is only at 506). Running Kenny's hunter did show haste scaling ahead of mastery at that item level (haste at 1.34 vs mastery at 0.91).

    So I don't know, I guess. I had not really looked at how things would sim into T15 but haste does seem to do better at higher item levels.

  14. #14
    Significantly is an overstatement, simcraft and femaledwarf are both showing haste ~100 dps above mastery for me. With most of the fights in ToT favoring mastery over haste for SV, it would be better to go mastery because you gain so much more out of it in comparison to haste.

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  15. #15
    Someone is still using Simulationcraft :O ?!
    Mastery vs haste i think mastery wins almost all the time plus we already got enough haste no matter we want it or not.If you go mastery over haste u are less effected by bad ping/lag spikes or any kind of delay of your shots that might occur + you got a little stronger AoE withc is always nice then you play surv.
    For me the perfect items are still those with crit + hit or crit + exp though ...so u can reforge that hit/exp to what u desire without messing around with your crit chance( for example now if i want to go heavy mastery(still prio crit) i ll probably loose some crit (not much but still)cuz the haste I got on my gear i always want to reforge to crit not to exp/hit .(if that makes any sense to any1 if i want 400 more mastery now(and less haste) i can get it only by loosing 100 crit ....if i am not willing to loose 100 crit i cant get nor 200 nor 300 nor 400 more mastery no matter how much i reduce haste..i have no choice but reduce my crit a bit too.

    p.s. if u play your hunter well having 1000 more mastery or haste wont make much of difference anyway ;p
    Last edited by lolipopp; 2013-03-11 at 06:10 AM.

  16. #16
    Your crit + hit desire will probably go away once you get the Valor trinket, holy cow!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    Sims have shown this entire expansion and will continue to show haste being significantly ahead of mastery for survival, and I honestly see no reason behind people ignoring the only appropriate analysis that exists. You want logic behind why it's better? Mastery simply has an extremely low conversion rate and barely affects a majority of our damage.

    Another thing to keep in mind: with Blizzard's new found love of RPPM, haste's value will increase even more.
    While that might have been true pre-SS buff, and pre-Explo+BA buff, the difference between them are slight to none at this point - by no means "significant" in any way that can't be explained by shot-shifting. If you can proove otherwise, feel free to do so.
    And as other people say, on top of this, the only fights where you're not going to have two serpent stings running for an extended amount of time, is...
    Jin Rokh.
    Maghera.
    Ji kun if you're not flying (which hunters totally should, considering we can DPS the eggs before we even GET there, along with having insane AOE-cleave for them).
    Iron Qon.

    And thats about it.
    As for PPM, it depends on how many PPM mechanics we're going to get - as it looks right now, H bottle and the Shado-pan trinket are extremely good for hunters still. Some thunderforged heroic might pull ahead, but realisticly, you won't have alot of that for progress, and both bottle/shado pan are not PPM effects, and thus will not make haste's value higher.

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