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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsilly View Post
    QQ - Mages had the highest DPS spec of all the classes in 5.1 - http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/
    So having one spec at or near the top justifies having all 3 in the middle to bottom third over night? Nvm the fact affliction was ahead of arc for 2 months before arc passed it up 3 days before the patch hit. If we are looking at was the highest overall or the longest it was affliction. Either way what was going on last week, month or whatever matters little now. When a pure dps class has 3 poor choices for dps something is wrong.
    Last edited by Tyrven; 2013-03-07 at 11:26 PM.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  2. #42
    Ive been trying not to whine so early in live.. but lets be honest with eachother.. this just wont do.. then I would like to know how the lower ilvld mages feel like.. its just wrong.

    Example from my point of view

    503ilvl Fire at Tortos 25man

    Couple of attempts, dps ruined the whole fight, couldnt get the RNG on my side to spread combustion on the first wave of turtles with BL.
    But then all of a sudden something happend.. I got massive pyros, 24/7.. stacking ignite like a badman and spread combustion on all turtles.. for the first 20seconds of the fight I reached 400k dps, I was 100k above the boomkins at opening bursts. So guess what happend 2minutes into the fight? I dropped like a ******* rock.. back to the regular RNG, trying to spread the best combustion I could get and I was competing for the best out of the 5 worst when the fight was over.

    "Tortos is a bad fight for mages", mostly yes, but could be worse.. we also did mageara after and guess what.. single target RNG.. holy mother of turnips.. this isnt doable, cleave fights are way better than single target, I just cant handle it, I cant push the dps to the others, no matter what I do if it isnt cleave fights.. and thats not how it should be like, its just plain wrong and thats the reason for my story.. I barely ever whine, I always try to find solutions but this time its not possible.

    Lets hope the blue brothers understand this, maybe not now, but in matter of days.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Hm, they only talking about fire and arcane, but Frost is already on the bottom of the three with the worst scaling? Starting to hate those Blizzard fellas ^^ That will result in "I have to progress with fire or arcane and only could play with frost in farm raids : /"
    Having devs looking at 2 out of 3 specs is better than 3 broken pve specs
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  4. #44
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Hm, they only talking about fire and arcane, but Frost is already on the bottom of the three with the worst scaling? Starting to hate those Blizzard fellas ^^ That will result in "I have to progress with fire or arcane and only could play with frost in farm raids : /"
    I tweeted back at them. Retweet my tweet :P

  5. #45
    Well that means nothing, the will watch the logs and say "Well thats where we wanted them to be" and that will be the end of that.

  6. #46
    Dreadlord nimryas's Avatar
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    Mage haters need to stop QQ'ing about mages QQ'ing really.... Yes, we were OP in 5.1 but is that our fault? NO! Mages didnt ask to be an overpowered class, at least not me.. What I want is to do competitive DPS in my raid and not slowing down our progression. I don't need to be #1 all times, sometimes would be nice (if it ment that i actually maxmized my mages utility for that specific fight). If blizzards way of balancing is to make one class OP one patch and nerf them to the ground the next patch, they need to rethink their definition of balancing...

    I think this is espcially of importance for classes that can only fulfill the dps role, other classes could respec into something else instead of having to reroll an entire new clas. Mages need to be doing competitive dps, else the class is pretty much useless since we don't really bring much else to the raid then dps nowadays :')

    I have said this a couple of times before, but I wouldn't mind a bit of a revamp for the mage class, especially fire since the fucking rng part is so damn annoying (or fun with a retarded amount of crit).

    Nimryas - EU-Kazzak ~ My youtube channel

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidd View Post
    Well that means nothing, the will watch the logs and say "Well thats where we wanted them to be" and that will be the end of that.
    If the numbers are actually low, now , they'll do something about it. There's no way they'll let the 3 mages spec being bottom tier during a whole tier (assuming those numbers are right)

    Come on guys, cheer up a bit
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  8. #48
    I was top DPS on Jin Rokh with Frost and 5 Itemlevel behind the other casters (Moonkin, Affliction, Fire, Shadow), so Frost isn't too bad in single target dps, I would even say its quite competitive.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    If the numbers are actually low, now , they'll do something about it. There's no way they'll let the 3 mages spec being bottom tier during a whole tier (assuming those numbers are right)

    Come on guys, cheer up a bit
    Sorry I am being a bit negative here. But after being benched after the first boss last night I'm not impressed. I managed 106k dps 10man as frost, 40k dps below everyone else, ilvl 485. As it is I struggle for drops as you can see from my ilvl I dont really need to be benched on top of my already bad luck.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandacally View Post
    I was top DPS on Jin Rokh with Frost and 5 Itemlevel behind the other casters (Moonkin, Affliction, Fire, Shadow), so Frost isn't too bad in single target dps, I would even say its quite competitive.
    Certainly means your buddies sucks, because there's no way frost is better than Moonkin/AffliLock/SP.

    Do you have any logs ? Thanks
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  11. #51
    Eh? Hmm...

    I want to say "I told you all so", but I'm kind of getting tired of saying it over and over again. I believe I called this exact situation like a month ago during heavy PTR testing. Pretty much all the complaints being brought forward (above just DPS ones) were things I touched on extensively (and even made mention of in my report).


    But meh, even though I am not surprised, it is a sad state of affairs for mages in general. However, at least this time I tried to help you out rather than just sit on the sidelines and take pot shots at you all for being soo nubly.

    Its funny... I remember getting a PM from Shangs venting about the state of mages on the PTR and how we could get blizz's attention about the fact that the class is about to nosedive. I told him back then that this day would come, the day where hard WOL numbers will do the convincing for us. Its just sad that it actually came down to it.


    I guess I'm just just a little taken aback by the fact that even after.. what was it? 2 months? Of heavy PTR testing and feedback. With some of the worlds best mages giving Blizz feedback about how the class is not going to do well in 5.2. With reports and numbers and math and data all being thrown at Blizz in giant ogre sized chunks, that even after all of that, Blizz still decided to listen to the glorious MVP who was the only mage in the entire community who made it his personal mission to go around every forum and zealously defend Blizz and state, over and over again, that "Mages will be great in 5.2!!" And Blizz, in their infinite wisdom, listened to him instead of the vast pool of some of the best mages in magekind.


    At least we tried this time...
    Last edited by zomgDPS; 2013-03-07 at 11:56 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandacally View Post
    I was top DPS on Jin Rokh with Frost and 5 Itemlevel behind the other casters (Moonkin, Affliction, Fire, Shadow), so Frost isn't too bad in single target dps, I would even say its quite competitive.
    have to agree with Eihwaz here, i ranked 4th (Somehow) as frost on that fight and only turned out 13th

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4900&e=5228 (Shadowmage)

    sadly all of our specs are just miles behind everyone else. hopefully blizzard actually see this and do something about it


    AddOn Author of: SpellNotReadyYet, Rune of Powa

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    Eh? Hmm...

    I want to say "I told you all so", but I'm kind of getting tired of saying it over and over again.
    I don't think so. You can't really claim what we all agreed upon (the fact that Mages were weak in low ilvl gear this patch and seemed to ramp up nicely when they got better gear) as your own fact. Yeah it looks bad in PvE right now, but I still don't think the first week of a raid is a good way to test how good a class is for a full patch cycle.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Certainly means your buddies sucks, because there's no way frost is better than Moonkin/AffliLock/SP.

    Do you have any logs ? Thanks
    No, my mates dont suck.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=3411&e=3602

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Swizzle-I View Post
    I don't think so. You can't really claim what we all agreed upon
    True, there were a few others who saw it too and we did indeed agree, but still. The vast and greater majority sat by and ignored it all.

    But meh, I do not see much point in dwelling over that aspect now. Whether its a scaling problem, a fight mechanics problem, a level 90 talent problem, or something else, there is a failure of design that has occurred. The important point isn't who found this failure and who publicized it, the point, at least imho, is that Blizz was aware of what is about to happen, yet did nothing.


    As far as the scaling argument is concerned, I think it is starting to serve as a wholesale scapegoat now to pretty much everything. At best you could perhaps make the argument about fire, but not really about Arcane or Frost. They scale just like every other spec.

    Though again, I do not think mages arguing among themselves is going to be what will get you guys through this. Funnily enough, it falls upon Community leaders like you Swizzbots (and Shangabangs) to bring mages together during this time and keep the morale high (with more than just soothing words mind you).

    God knows, you guys are going to need it now.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    However, at least this time I tried to help you out rather than just sit on the sidelines and take pot shots at you all for being soo nubly.
    That you did Zom. And we were watching closely
    I spoke to the council specifically about you this morning and we decided that due to your actions during the 5.2 PTR, we consider your community service complete! You bar has been lifted and you are welcome back to our forums whenever you wish.

    Welcome home friend. Hopefully you learned patience with the experience
    Good job!

  17. #57
    OH SNAP! Thanks dude!!

    Will you be taking over here then? You could help them out much more than I ever could...

  18. #58
    No.
    My efforts are, unfortunately, needed elsewhere.
    You are more than welcome to stay here too if you wish. But we are now off topic, we can discuss logistics on our own time.



    As far as the topic of conversation goes, we should all be cognizant of the fact that any data points showing anomalous results as far as mage performance goes are being closely watched by the developers. If the current trend continues on into the next week, we can rest assured that there will be immediate changes made.
    However, as some of you have already eluded to, the real insight we gain from the statistics is the somewhat large scale failure of the developers' own balance process. It seems unlikely that a robust balance framework seems to have such an obvious point of failure.


    Either way, the best thing to do now is to be calm and patient

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    OH SNAP! Thanks dude!!

  20. #60
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    Consider this: what would happen if there was a class that could only heal? All three specs were different healing styles, and all three were barely ahead of what dps and tanks could do? Those healers would be sat, and rightfully so. What about a class that could only tank, but barely did a better job than a lock with Dark Apothesis? This is where we are positioned right now. Our dps numbers are closer to tanks and healers than they are to the top DPS numbers...

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