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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foliuss View Post
    No, I've done 11/12 bosses on live now and my damage has fine for most fights in my opinion. I think since people are not absolutely shitting on everyone else on meters like we have before in this expansion that we are broken or underpowered or something. If anything I'd say we're at the very least middle of the pack and on some fights we can still top meters.
    I´m very interested in how you have done so far with "fine damage". Can you please link any logs?

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I´m very interested in how you have done so far with "fine damage". Can you please link any logs?
    I'm guessing he can't as his guild is hiding the logs during progression.. But he already said that his gear is a lot better than most people, would even venture a guess that its on top 20 of all mages atm. So in the end what he pulls is only relative if you can get a 4 set t15, crit rating trinket, and a lot of other 522/528 pieces in 1 reset.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Arcane Intellect which is helpful admittedly, and a very decent buff.http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...11100000000000
    if you have a warlock in your raid, they bring the Spell Power part of this buff. We have a druid tank as well, so our mage's buffs are utterly useless. They need SOMEthing. Maybe an upgrade to their pull back in time spell? Then we have to be worried about the PvP effects, which is just annoying.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    I'm guessing he can't as his guild is hiding the logs during progression.. But he already said that his gear is a lot better than most people, would even venture a guess that its on top 20 of all mages atm. So in the end what he pulls is only relative if you can get a 4 set t15, crit rating trinket, and a lot of other 522/528 pieces in 1 reset.
    I have good gear and did some pretty decent ranks (for a mage, but logs are hidden now). I won´t see any set piece for a long time. 2p is for boomkins first 10% crit on their strongest spell etc, so overgearing is not a proof or anything else. Mages are bottom, period.

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...l/7/60/median/

  5. #145
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6z...=10431&e=10821

    I get sit all the time. When you have a raid of relative equal skill, and you have a roster of 12, mages don't bring anything to the table besides sub par dps. Anyone else on the roster can out dps me single target and multitarget. While that doesn't really matter for normals, It will definitely matter on heroics next week. Couple this with the fact that every hybrid can do more damage than me while also bringing healing cool downs to the raid, there will be no reason for me to be part of the raid. In addition, any non-fire specced mage does terrible damage on high movement fights. You can blame it on me being frost, but I do better damage as frost than most people do with good RNG as fire.

    For everyone saying, mages should stop QQ'ing cause they were overpowered last tier, that is a pretty invalid argument.

    We bring 0 raid damage mitigation cooldowns.
    We bring 0 raid healing cooldowns.
    Our buffs can be given by other classes who preform well.
    Our single target is middle pack at best.
    Our aoe (outside of frozen orb) is lack luster at best.
    Our movement damage is terrible in a day where every other class can move and dps with little to no penalty.

    For everyone else saying mage damage is fine because I topped charts in my guild... either everyone else in your raid is not playing with the same skill level as you, or you were lucky top 20 of fire mages that had amazingly good rng.

  6. #146
    I'm actually surprised at how much we don't suck. Myself and the other mages in my raid are doing just fine in most scenarios, having done 9/12 as of last night. Even with 508-512 fire is shaping up to be ~pretty okay~ and I can imagine being a chart topper with 20 more ilvls as well as a 4 piece tier. The sky isn't falling everyone, just chill out and wait until you have some gear.

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  7. #147
    The best trick for fire during every first days/weeks untill u get gear is: never single target without a mage bomb up.. that means about every 10seconds u have to renew ur nether tempest (yes u are using NT as fire, no questions asked) before u start casting ur fireball / pyroblasts.

    Pyromaniac is the key to be at the middle pack for single target dps as it is now, drop it and it will be noticed badly.

    BUT! During ur opener/bursting everything u have macro u dont have to bother, focus on the ignite and combust, after that its all RNG with fireball and pyro with nether tempest up at all times.

    GL.

    EDIT: ITS STILL RNG!! But with the RNG decently on your side, thats when ur going to compete for the middle pack, NT dont replace the bad rng, GL again.
    Last edited by Kaptenn; 2013-03-08 at 10:14 PM.

  8. #148
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Aren't fire mages going to be incredibly frustrated with their own RNG swings being magnified by the massive RNG introduced by the RPPM trinkets?

    I seem to get +/- 25k DPS pull-to-pull on Durumu based off my Wushoolay trinket procs. It's absurd.

    Also I think this was a very clever little intro into Blizzard's way of making raidbots, WoL, and meters in general a thing of the past. Cursory views of numbers from any class with RPPM trinkets will be impossible to analyze. Rankings henceforth are irrelevant.

  9. #149
    Hello everyone, this is my first post here go east on me. I Just wanted to share my experience with everyone, my guild is 8/12 10 man right now not the best or anything but we are decent. I switched to frost for our most recent raid and I have to say for me at least its the way to go for now. Such an improvement over fire for me much more stable. I was running fire with a little over 10k crit raiting and 507 ilvl, it just didn't feel good at all each pull was all over the place for damage. I am sure its more than just me experiencing that. So I switched frost and its been a lot better, I recommend at least trying it if you are struggling with fire. Things can only get better from here I guess we just have to thug it out since blizzard doesn't seem to care. Mage for life!!!


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  10. #150
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Aren't fire mages going to be incredibly frustrated with their own RNG swings being magnified by the massive RNG introduced by the RPPM trinkets?

    I seem to get +/- 25k DPS pull-to-pull on Durumu based off my Wushoolay trinket procs. It's absurd.

    Also I think this was a very clever little intro into Blizzard's way of making raidbots, WoL, and meters in general a thing of the past. Cursory views of numbers from any class with RPPM trinkets will be impossible to analyze. Rankings henceforth are irrelevant.
    Did you have ppm trinket when you have made your FoF proc test ?
    If yes, we can check statistic distribution with them to see how bad is the proc distribution.
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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Also I think this was a very clever little intro into Blizzard's way of making raidbots, WoL, and meters in general a thing of the past. Cursory views of numbers from any class with RPPM trinkets will be impossible to analyze.
    No they wont. The concept of average, standard deviation/variance and median taken together can give a good indication.

    In addition, using statistical methods you can identify statistical anomalies and remove them to determine baseline information for each class.

    Sure it makes the maths a fraction more complex, but that isn't a problem for someone who knows what they are doing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 12:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Avine View Post
    Mage for life!!!
    Our guild just downed the first ToT boss - so we are now 1/12N 10 man. My dps on our first night was around 50kdps total using the same build as I was in 5.1. I can probably up that to 80kdps by the next time we try ToT.

    I'm at 490iLvl, far too early for fire - so I'm sticking with arcane and waiting for LFR to gear up to the point where I can contribute to our raids again.

  12. #152
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    It's funny how people are saying how mages are fine because they're doing fine in their raidgroup. Guess what, the rest of your group is simply performing worse than you/lower geared.
    Got questions about mages or want your logs analyzed? Feel free to PM me, or better yet, post on altered-time.com forums.
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  13. #153
    Now it's officially confirmed, GC does NOT play mage, always thaught he did, but clearly not :=)

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    It's funny how people are saying how mages are fine because they're doing fine in their raidgroup. Guess what, the rest of your group is simply performing worse than you/lower geared.
    Guess what, if you cant keep up with your raid maybe you are the one who is bad at the game

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foliuss View Post
    Guess what, if you cant keep up with your raid maybe you are the one who is bad at the game
    When your dps drops about 20k overnight playing with the same people, doing the same fights, looking at the same meters...

    Been running HoF 2nd boss for ages so I know my medians etc, and to consistently be 15-20k lower this week after reset, than on the weekend (though switching arcane to fire) its extremely frustrating.

    I think 1 common thing through all of this thread is that you are only a mage if you have over 510 ilvl, well guys, hate to break it to you, I only have 491, if I wanted to get back in to serious raiding, I couldnt, out specs are that underpowered in the 480-510 area unless you have an awesome alt that they will dual play you with its difficult.

    Also I wouldnt want to inflict my lowest of the group dps on others.

    I could post my logs, but no point as I play with people who struggle on their specs, I know what they should hit, I think they know what they should hit, and if they did I would be about 10k behind the fourth dps, rather than sitting in 3rd due to experience of playing my class to the best I can (not the best someone else can).

  16. #156
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyx77 View Post
    When your dps drops about 20k overnight playing with the same people, doing the same fights, looking at the same meters...

    Been running HoF 2nd boss for ages so I know my medians etc, and to consistently be 15-20k lower this week after reset, than on the weekend (though switching arcane to fire) its extremely frustrating.

    I think 1 common thing through all of this thread is that you are only a mage if you have over 510 ilvl, well guys, hate to break it to you, I only have 491, if I wanted to get back in to serious raiding, I couldnt, out specs are that underpowered in the 480-510 area unless you have an awesome alt that they will dual play you with its difficult.

    Also I wouldnt want to inflict my lowest of the group dps on others.

    I could post my logs, but no point as I play with people who struggle on their specs, I know what they should hit, I think they know what they should hit, and if they did I would be about 10k behind the fourth dps, rather than sitting in 3rd due to experience of playing my class to the best I can (not the best someone else can).
    I am over 510 ilvl and I still feel as you do.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I am over 510 ilvl and I still feel as you do.
    Ilevel has nothing to do with it, its abt your crit %, and fire just doesn't work till 40% raid buffed

  18. #158
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Ilevel has nothing to do with it, its abt your crit %, and fire just doesn't work till 40% raid buffed
    I'm frost. The FoF procs are too streaky and RPPM makes it even worse. Invoc is too bad, and IW is too tough to line up properly based off mechanics. IW wouldn't be so bad to force up for nuking if we could cast while running.

    Wishing I had the stress free boss learning life of hunters.

  19. #159
    Mechagnome Xzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Wishing I had the stress free boss learning life of hunters.
    Tell me about it. I love how our lock and hunter has no issues whatsoever with movement. Always business as usual for them :|

  20. #160
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Soon to be a week now. At least it looks Frost passed BM Hunters. Woo.

    Let's ignore the fact nobody raids as BM and enjoy this small victory.
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