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  1. #1
    Field Marshal suicidebears's Avatar
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    anyone else tired of the MoP raid designs?

    complexity for complexity sake?

    what happened to challenging but still fun?

    i raided every expansion in competitive guilds spanning 40 mans, to heroic 10 man... and for some reason this expansion... these raid designs really bother me. the only way i can describe the raid design is with a hipsterish/condescending attitude.

    i remember a fight as simple as heigan with the safety dance... the fight had like 2 mechanics, was challenging enough but still FUN... what happened to that design? clever mechanics... not just 8-10 random things thrown on the floor/adds...

    just seems super lazy to me

  2. #2
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post

    just seems super lazy to me
    So boring content like heigen is hard work from blizzard. But complex fights are lazy? Seems like you are just trying to find something to hate on. Would take MoP raiding over dumbed down faceroll content anyday.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal suicidebears's Avatar
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    boring is subjective. to me this garbage is boring.

    throwing in 8-10 random mechanics on every fight consisting of some kind of void zone/add wave/dispel is definitely lazy.

    look at black temple and sunwell... each fight had what... 2-3 mechanics? maybe 4? and still arguably the best raid tier. quality > quantity

  4. #4
    HoF was the low point of all WoW raids in my eyes. The fights weren't much fun and in some cases just annoying and boring. I never thought a raid would make me miss things like DS or ICC. Nicely done Blizzard on making me understand anything is possible, besides having a tier of raiding that is fun start to finish and fight to fight.
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  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Spalding's Avatar
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    So all in all, less mechanics, but more dmg taken from them? In safety dance you'd almost get killed instantly if you weren't running with the wolf pack!

  6. #6
    I wouldn't call it lazy so much as undisciplined — the current crop of designers plops far too many things in a space. Spending the night working on Horridon, I found myself enjoying the concept but going insane over the execution. So many mobs. Marking them was murder at times.

  7. #7
    Field Marshal suicidebears's Avatar
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    my favorite tier of raiding was ulduar hard modes when it was cutting edge content. perfect blend of skill/fun/challenge required. even going for tribute to insanity was infinitely more fun and challenging than this. and less complex.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    I think it's just naturally running out of ideas, same reason the next assassin's creed is about pirates.

    Complex mechanics are easier feel unique and separate.

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  9. #9
    Field Marshal suicidebears's Avatar
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    idk maybe hire some new blood with new ideas? this entire expansion follows the SAME formula. almost every fight

  10. #10
    Heigan was fun for you? I want what you're smoking because that's fucking crazy.
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  11. #11
    I agree. Over all design just seems very lack luster. The general Asian theme bores me this expansion. Older raids you would walk in and gawk in awe at how cool they were. Now you walk in youre just like ok, wheres the boss. Want to get loot and be on my way.

  12. #12
    Field Marshal suicidebears's Avatar
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    i remember dpsing heigan with just a tank and a healer alive with everyone cheering on the last 3-4 people remaining.. that was a LOT more fun than... ADDS... void zones... ADDS... dispel... void zone... aoe damage... ADDS.. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

  13. #13
    To the OP: Mark my words, 5.4 or 5.5 will bring us a classic raid finder tool which will scale us down to whatever level of raid we queue for so you'll be able to do the old raids at level to your hearts content.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    boring is subjective. to me this garbage is boring.

    throwing in 8-10 random mechanics on every fight consisting of some kind of void zone/add wave/dispel is definitely lazy.

    look at black temple and sunwell... each fight had what... 2-3 mechanics? maybe 4? and still arguably the best raid tier. quality > quantity
    This logic makes absolutely no sense.

    P.S. If BT and Sunwell were released today they'd be considered faceroll content and the forums would be wall to wall bitching about how easy WoW has become.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Petur View Post
    I agree. Over all design just seems very lack luster. The general Asian theme bores me this expansion. Older raids you would walk in and gawk in awe at how cool they were. Now you walk in youre just like ok, wheres the boss. Want to get loot and be on my way.
    That's not so much a design fault but just the fact we've been doing this for 5,6,7 or 8 years. It's just kinda old now.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome khatsoo's Avatar
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    It's more challenging? People got used to facing a boss and learning what's going on?
    I remember raiding in Wotlk (younger and 'noober' version of me) and I didn't even know what was going on sometimes and still managed to kill bosses.
    Now skill and perception from everyone in the raid is required, improve the strategy to your raid roster. I prefer challenging (so progressing through a raid, the fun part at least for me) than easy-to-go bosses to get my loot and carry on.

  17. #17
    MSV was kind of boring to me but I really enjoyed HoF and Terrace. Haven't started ToT yet but I'm liking the way it's looking so far... I'll see soon enough.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    boring is subjective. to me this garbage is boring.

    throwing in 8-10 random mechanics on every fight consisting of some kind of void zone/add wave/dispel is definitely lazy.

    look at black temple and sunwell... each fight had what... 2-3 mechanics? maybe 4? and still arguably the best raid tier. quality > quantity
    No not really. BT was a lot more boring than this, and about equally as cool in lore. ToT > BT.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    I do not mind having to learn complex multi phase fights but I really do not enter a raid instance to spend any time learning how to walk across platforms with wind trying to blow me off while mobs with blue flood lights that knock you about if you are hit cycle up and down and around you while killing trash between bosses that is just plain tuned silly.


    The space between boss one and boss two reminds me more of super mario brothers than world of warcraft.

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  20. #20
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torunscar View Post
    That's not so much a design fault but just the fact we've been doing this for 5,6,7 or 8 years. It's just kinda old now.
    This is a big part of it for me. If you've been raiding since BC, you've seen a lot of raids, a lot of rooms, and a ton of fights. Blizz has been pretty creative about trying to throw different things into a fight but there's only so much you can do. A fight is a fight. We do things, the boss does things. Stuff happens and the boss eventually goes down.

    It's a formula. I think the raid environments are still quite beautiful but it's true that the true beauty is probably in the small details. Big rooms, columns, roofs and a circle in the room somewhere. It's bound to get old after a few years. I admire those that have done it this long and still find it interesting.
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