anyone else tired of the MoP raid designs?

[MasterHamster]

Trying not to focus too much on just Brutallus here, but comparing a dps check to a boss that require good execution is not a very good comparison
And really.. skill to play your class... one could expect that the only times such things come into use is when you have to use them (like less used abilities) to perform as good as possible even when boss mechanics are trying to stop you

Maybe I'm being stubborn, or reading you incorrectly, but when I hear that fights with less mechanics somehow would require skills at the class, and fights where you aren't free to stand still and roll your face on macros doesn't, I have to rebuke.

Perhaps there is some truth in the idea that too many mechanics (what is too many?) can be a bad thing, but I cannot agree with the notion that a boss merely hitting hard with 2 raid mechanics (really, take a look at bosses before Ulduar) and healers have to spam greater heals require skill to play, when fights with things to avoid and plan for doesn't

edit: I think I just said the same thing 3 times with merely slight variation or points, yay me.

[grexly75]

I found the Heigan fight the most lack lustre most boring fight of the whole of Redone Naxx all one ever did was move to point A pew pew boss, switch places run while not getting toasted (The Safety Dance was a right pain in the rear if you had high latency or had a massive lag spike at the wrong time.) Ulduar was good so was ICC, All the T11 raids were good except to a degree Throne of The Four Winds, DS was ok once but after that was meh.

But so far the raids in MoP are very much better the exhilaration of getting Elegon down and Will of The Emperor by the slimmest of margins is the best. Even the first boss in HoF is fun and when all fell into place it was awesome. And can see the ToTTK is going to be good too. But there needs to be a bit of complexity in raid encounters otherwise the game might feel like it has been dumbed down.

[suicidebears]

yea but why do people feel complexity means crammed in forced movement and adds? that seems like being annoying.

learning and mastering your class sounds like a much better target for raid design.

[grexly75]

[/COLOR]I actually enjoyed TOTGC. I thought tribute to insanity was a great challenge for the "hard core" while normal totc was challenging enough without being overly complex where your average guild couldnt do it after a while.

And yet ToTGC was a so so raid that was meh and even Blizz admits that ToTC/GC was one of their worst mistakes, it was just a very meh sort of raid.

[Anjerith]

yea but why do people feel complexity means crammed in forced movement and adds? that seems like being annoying.

learning and mastering your class sounds like a much better target for raid design.

If you have learned and mastered your class, you should have no problem with complex raid mechanics like "adds" and "having to move".

Seriously.


Seriously.



I have no clue how else you expect fights to go, you have a patchwerk boss that requires you to kite him with ice traps, disarmed, dazed and keep all DPS related dots on him or he enrages?

[suicidebears]

no trash. a cluster of well tuned bosses. fun hardcore achievements. yea a horrible mistake.

[SamR]

No... You can have fights with less add phases and movement/void zones and dbm spam LIKE brutallus that require skill to play your class, not skill at dodging/memorizing a hundred different mechanics

How did Brutallus require skill to play your class? I mean, if you were a DPS, you stood in one place and did your rotation. Then when you got debuff, you moved to a second place. Then back to your original place. No movement, no phases. Basically a great fight for people who like to stand in one place and tunnel vision.

Healers did pretty much the same.

The tanks didn't really move and taunted after a set period.

It really sounds like you're asking for something easier and then pretending that what you're asking for is really harder. Just admit it, you want easier fights.

[Ianus]

i gguess you didnt raid t11 prenerf in cata lmao

[grexly75]

yea but why do people feel complexity means crammed in forced movement and adds? that seems like being annoying.

learning and mastering your class sounds like a much better target for raid design.

By that logic then Heigan was a complex fight in that you had forced movement, or that Noth or Loetheb were complex due to they having adds, there is nothing more boring than just standing there pew pewing a boss watching your damage meter.

[Ryme]

I do not mind having to learn complex multi phase fights but I really do not enter a raid instance to spend any time learning how to walk across platforms with wind trying to blow me off while mobs with blue flood lights that knock you about if you are hit cycle up and down and around you while killing trash between bosses that is just plain tuned silly.


The space between boss one and boss two reminds me more of super mario brothers than world of warcraft.

First they give us Poke man, now they give us Mario Brothers.................

Honest to god when we got to this part I haven't heard laughter or enjoyed raiding more in years, I was in absolute awe and silent applause for Blizzard.

Subjective ideas, eh?

[grexly75]

i gguess you didnt raid t11 prenerf in cata lmao

Yeah T11 was the best of the Cata expac tho T12 didn't do too badly.

[Deleted]

Heigan was fun for you? I want what you're smoking because that's fucking crazy.

Well, when you also consider people can have different opinions you'll realize people might actually like the encounter. I know shocker! /sarcasm

[Spodumene]

my favorite tier of raiding was ulduar hard modes when it was cutting edge content. perfect blend of skill/fun/challenge required. even going for tribute to insanity was infinitely more fun and challenging than this. and less complex.

So if you hit your mental limit of simultaneous things to think about you just stop having fun?

You're upset that different people have different responsibilities and there's not 25 people in the raid playing jump rope over the same raid-wide mechanic?

[JhanZ]

Heigan was fun for you? I want what you're smoking because that's fucking crazy.

I like how you say this and then tell me this:

Well, when you also consider people can have different opinions you'll realize people might actually like the expansion. I know shocker! /sarcasm

How's it feel to be a hypocrite? If you can't even stand by your own values, why are you even posting? Just to be a hypocrite?

At least pick one side and stick to it, don't be bi-polar.

[Nazmina]

I really have enjoyed most of the fights in MoP, very well designed and challenging, some might take a while to learn, but I'd get bored pretty quick on a boss just like Hiegan, avoiding a single void zone mechanic is no longer difficult to me. Only fights I didnt like so far were heroic protectors and Heroic Ambershaper. The rest are pretty great, I love Vizer heroic, and although it is fairly hectic I love Council of Elders in ToT

[Jtbrig7390]

To the OP: Mark my words, 5.4 or 5.5 will bring us a classic raid finder tool which will scale us down to whatever level of raid we queue for so you'll be able to do the old raids at level to your hearts content.

If this is true I will personally return to wow. I got a twink DK and wouldn't mind just doing Wrath Content with a group.

As long as they don't change how hard anything is and all achievements can be done ill do it.

[Osmeric]

complexity for complexity sake?

Yes, I agree with this. It's like they have a need to push it beyond where it really should be.

[Orange Joe]

complexity for complexity sake?

what happened to challenging but still fun?

i raided every expansion in competitive guilds spanning 40 mans, to heroic 10 man... and for some reason this expansion... these raid designs really bother me. the only way i can describe the raid design is with a hipsterish/condescending attitude.

i remember a fight as simple as heigan with the safety dance... the fight had like 2 mechanics, was challenging enough but still FUN... what happened to that design? clever mechanics... not just 8-10 random things thrown on the floor/adds...

just seems super lazy to me

Heigan was only a challenge if you were challenged or had really bad lag. It was one of the easiest fights in WOW.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 12:10 PM ----------

i remember dpsing heigan with just a tank and a healer alive with everyone cheering on the last 3-4 people remaining.. that was a LOT more fun than... ADDS... void zones... ADDS... dispel... void zone... aoe damage... ADDS.. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I feel sorry if your group was that retarded that they couldn't do something as simple as run to the next section.

[Buu]

I do think too it's not fun.
The complexity of managing your long list of class skills is high, but still fun.
The complexity of the fight mechanics it's too high, but looks like fun if you think in doing that overgeared.

Now add those two complexities together, in a group with the bare minimum necessary gear to satisfy the math, and you have a challenge so unforgiven that isn't even fun.

[Osmeric]

This all confirms for me my feeling (and, I freely admit, hope) that normal mode raid participation will decline significantly in T15. Blizzard is delivering a raiding product that frustrates and repels many people. The complexity makes bringing in new people difficult.

If you don't like this design, I'll not only say don't do it, I'll beg you to not do it. Use your participation or lack thereof to send Blizzard a message.