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  1. #141
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    I don't want to be that guy but if this were the truth then you could probably avoid threads where it's clear some complaints are going to be happening. In truth I don't think your tired one bit but yea just a heads up.
    I'd love to be that guy and you can probably avoid this game if you are tired of its design

  2. #142
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I also just think the entire "raiding" market is just waning.

    I mean, take GW2 for example. The game has only 8 dungeons (which are extremely difficult), and the rest of the content is scales your level down so you can experience any zone you want at any time, along with a plethora of World Bosses.

    WoW is probably the only game I think think of that has stuck to the old End Game formula and has made it extremely successful.

    The prime issue is that the MMO Market is waning. The "Old Kings" of MMOs are just starting to wither, unfortunately. That's just how the market works.

    The same even goes for GW2 which has had some drop in activity.

    The MMO boom is kinda gone.
    Agreed. We just have to face it that MMOs are a fading thing in the eyes of the general gaming public. Unless something drastically changes, like Blizzard's Titan being able to create the next market burst since WoW, or something of that caliber, I do not see the status quo being any different.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    complexity for complexity sake?

    what happened to challenging but still fun?

    i raided every expansion in competitive guilds spanning 40 mans, to heroic 10 man... and for some reason this expansion... these raid designs really bother me. the only way i can describe the raid design is with a hipsterish/condescending attitude.

    i remember a fight as simple as heigan with the safety dance... the fight had like 2 mechanics, was challenging enough but still FUN... what happened to that design? clever mechanics... not just 8-10 random things thrown on the floor/adds...

    just seems super lazy to me
    Safety dance, and honestly most mechanics in Vanilla/TBC were more retard checks (Flame Wreath anyone?) than anything else, i love MoP's raiding design because its more than that, it actually gives people some responsability outside of the tanks/healers.

  4. #144
    Stood in the Fire Zenko's Avatar
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    This thread needs to be immortalized somehow. The amount of straws being grasped here to try to justify the ends is staggering.

    Im just baffled at what some people want out of this game. 8 pages deep and people are still passionate at having ToC's styled raids with Patchwerk/Heigan encounters throughout.

    So LFR isnt fun, Normal isnt fun, Heroics arent an option, and dungeons are boring. Am I getting this right? The game sucks for you yet you keep paying for it. The only winner here is Blizzard.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I also just think the entire "raiding" market is just waning.

    I mean, take GW2 for example. The game has only 8 dungeons (which are extremely difficult), and the rest of the content is scales your level down so you can experience any zone you want at any time, along with a plethora of World Bosses.

    WoW is probably the only game I think think of that has stuck to the old End Game formula and has made it extremely successful.

    The prime issue is that the MMO Market is waning. The "Old Kings" of MMOs are just starting to wither, unfortunately. That's just how the market works.

    The same even goes for GW2 which has had some drop in activity.

    The MMO boom is kinda gone.
    The MMO boom is definitively gone to the profit of Moba games, so what? There's still millions of MMO players, wow alone still has over 9 millions with a very active dev team and community, guess its all time to quit because its not mainstream anymore?

    Seriously, who cares.

  6. #146
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    The MMO boom is definitively gone to the profit of Moba games, so what? There's still millions of MMO players, wow alone still has over 9 millions with a very active dev team and community, guess its all time to quit because its not mainstream anymore?

    Seriously, who cares.
    What I was saying is that as the market changes, so does the customer and what they want.

    Although I don't agree with a lot of his opinions, Osmeric makes a good point: there has been a substantial drop in Raiding Activity with this expansion.

    Raiders are the minority, and they're the few who still enjoy doing such an activity.

    Players are looking for more and more to do, which is why Mists included so many features outside of raiding.

    That's the unfortunate reality of it. I'm simply laying a base down, and my own personal explanation plus opinion, as to why things are like this.

    REGARDLESS! I do love Raiding myself, especially when it's for story purposes and simply challenging myself, and I love the new raid in its entirety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Transorcers, Warlords in disguise.
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  7. #147
    I too am tired of the endless bar-raising of encounter complexity. When designing encounters, they should decide on a few mechanics, then tightly tune the fight damage and healing-wise and throw in active aggro management. There should be periods were DPSers need to do damage slowly to avoid gaining aggro, nuking periods, and periods where healers need to heal sparsely to avoid aggro.

  8. #148
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    I too am tired of the endless bar-raising of encounter complexity. When designing encounters, they should decide on a few mechanics, then tightly tune the fight damage and healing-wise and throw in active aggro management. There should be periods were DPSers need to do damage slowly to avoid gaining aggro, nuking periods, and periods where healers need to heal sparsely to avoid aggro.
    Fights..still have that though?
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Transorcers, Warlords in disguise.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    It's kinda simple. With all that gear leveling and stats growing, looks like Blizz get themselves cornered. Since average DPS is very high now, thanks to the thousands of stats, average HPS is also huge, they have really no way to create a single boss mechanics without stupid adds and tons of incoming raid damage. Or maybe they are just too lazy to invent something new. Nothing is more simple then throw a boss which hits entire raid every here and there for 400+k damage (stupid healing manasuck), then give him superhardhit ability for tanks (yet another stupid healer manasuck, yeah yeah our regen is so high blablablabla, we so like this craptastic raid and tank damage spikes oh yeah, especially love when you have to outheal tanks AND raid at the same time, wow, bursting heals are SO interesting. First time since playing healer since BC, I feel like I'm having to do some absurd skills rotation on a healer, pure nonsence it is), then let him spawn tons and tons of adds (dps sink). I think by this pattern you should've recognized a standart boss mechanic for the last three years. You may add more frustrating shit that forbiddens a role from using its role abilities in the course of fight - add healing debuff (yet moar manasuck), add casts that needs to be interrupted at almost same time on a bunch of thrash (dps suck), add tank debuffs that turn tank survivability into dust, add precious debuffs that are cast every 1 second on entire raid while your dispell skill is on new glorious omg-its-almost-a-hour cooldown (yet another manasuck with almost 100% of frustration impact on healers, oh yeah baby, its not-to-mention that not every healer class can dispell every debuff type, so if you have two priests, you will never win a fight).
    I'm gonna tell you this. I'd love Blizz to start making raids without stupid lfr/norm/hm diversity, just as they've done in the glorious past. And, for the sake of my mind's sanity, I hope they'll make That Great Item Squish as soon as possible, coz this add fights mechanic is awful, and I think pretty much people will agree to this.
    Well, I'm kinda against the item squish, and still don't see a reason behind tons of adds in every damn fight.

    Big damage mechanics are fine, since you learn to counter or dodge them, thus utilizing every skill a player has in some way. Big dps numbers actually show that with each piece of gear, each patch, each expansion you grow better and tougher. Adds... they are freaking annoyting and don't have anything to do with everything else.

    Check ICC, one of the best raids ever (not as good as Ulduar tho, but still great). What are the most memorable fights there? Festergut/Rotface, Professor, Sindragosa, Deathbringer, Queen and of course Lich King himself. NONE of those fights are tedious add zergs like Madness, Will or (most probably) Horridon. You've got a well-developed boss with some neat mechanics, and perhaps a few adds that don't really count as anything else then just one more mechanic. Those were the best fights ever. Like Mimiron from Ulduar, Ragnaros from Firelands and Illidan from BT. No adds, or making adds just a small part of the encounter, is a way to go.

    How is Blizzard missing that?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    What I was saying is that as the market changes, so does the customer and what they want.

    Although I don't agree with a lot of his opinions, Osmeric makes a good point: there has been a substantial drop in Raiding Activity with this expansion.

    Raiders are the minority, and they're the few who still enjoy doing such an activity.

    Players are looking for more and more to do, which is why Mists included so many features outside of raiding.

    That's the unfortunate reality of it. I'm simply laying a base down, and my own personal explanation plus opinion, as to why things are like this.

    REGARDLESS! I do love Raiding myself, especially when it's for story purposes and simply challenging myself, and I love the new raid in its entirety.

    Raiding in WoW is moving to Raid Finder much like dungeon running in WoW moved to the Dungeon Finder.

    There were way more people who saw Empress and Sha of Fear the last 6 months than saw Illidan in all of TBC. Raid content is now consumed by a much larger audience than before. So raiding isn't dying. Hardcore progression raiding might be declining(like in every other MMO), but casual raiding is huge now and overshadows progression raiding in numbers.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Raiding in WoW is moving to Raid Finder much like dungeon running in WoW moved to the Dungeon Finder.

    There were way more people who saw Empress and Sha of Fear the last 6 months than saw Illidan in all of TBC. Raid content is now consumed by a much larger audience than before. So raiding isn't dying. Hardcore progression raiding might be declining(like in every other MMO), but casual raiding is huge now and overshadows progression raiding in numbers.
    LFR in T14 was distinguished from normal/heroic in two ways:

    (1) numbers were tuned way down, and

    (2) encounter complexity was massively reduced, due to neutering or removal of many mechanisms.

    In the context of this thread, LFR shows that the complexity the devs are striving for really is a very minority taste.

    They want to make mechanics more important in T15 LFR. I suspect this attempt will be entirely disastrous, not least because the players who do LFR don't want more complexity. It's almost as if the devs are miffed that players are spurning their creation, and want to force the complexity on them regardless.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  12. #152
    Horridon and council are sensory overload.I like challenging fights but theres just too much going on it exhausts me.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    LFR in T14 was distinguished from normal/heroic in two ways:

    (1) numbers were tuned way down, and

    (2) encounter complexity was massively reduced, due to neutering or removal of many mechanisms.

    In the context of this thread, LFR shows that the complexity the devs are striving for really is a very minority taste.

    They want to make mechanics more important in T15 LFR. I suspect this attempt will be entirely disastrous, not least because the players who do LFR don't want more complexity. It's almost as if the devs are miffed that players are spurning their creation, and want to force the complexity on them regardless.
    And if the new LFR turns out to be too hard, they'll nerf it. Just like they nerfed LFR Garalon. There's no binary state to LFR difficulty. They'll aim for a target and tweak if it doesn't work. LFR Garalon was nerfed at least twice as I recall.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    I like how you say this and then tell me this:



    How's it feel to be a hypocrite? If you can't even stand by your own values, why are you even posting? Just to be a hypocrite?

    At least pick one side and stick to it, don't be bi-polar.
    So I can't express my opinion on his opinion without being called a hypocrite? Get over yourself.
    End SJW
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    I fucking hate this LGBT and gender equality shit invading video games.

  15. #155
    Not tired of designs at all. MOP raids are fantastic. T14 and T11 are probably my two favorite tiers of raiding ever, and T8 hard modes. T15 so far feels pretty well designed although we'll see.

    If you don't like complexity, then run LFR. Raiding is for challenges.

  16. #156
    So, people actually miss DS? You realize you guys are not actually human right? It's impossible.

    Seriously these raids are a breath of fresh air compared to retarded playgrounds like DS, there was NOTHING interesting in Dragon Soul, not one fight. So to bitch about fights with too many mechanics?... My god, people will bitch about anything Blizzard does I guess.

  17. #157
    What made me quit is this pattern of many bosses. Most of them have the same pattern: "Kill things > Kill Boss > Void zone > Repeat".
    And yeah, this is through the WHOLE fight. And isn't one, two, but 80% of the raid. I just few bit bored raiding MoP.

    Wanna be sucessful in raids? Forget the fancy skill names and simplify it. For example: Amethyst Pool = Fire.

    If you learn the pattern, welcome to the Club of bored WoW players

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by XingoJenkins View Post
    If you learn the pattern, welcome to the Club of bored WoW players
    The same could be said for every single raid that's ever existed in WoW. If you don't like raiding, that's fine. But I don't see why you would blame MoP specifically for it.

    edit: You kind of missed the point of this thread. This thread is complaining that the patterns in MoP raids are too complex and there are too many of them.
    Last edited by SamR; 2013-03-08 at 09:06 PM.

  19. #159
    Field Marshal suicidebears's Avatar
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    i think a huge problem is the lore in this expansion. who seriously cares of pandaria? i didnt think for a single nanosecond about it before the expansion released...

    what about the characters everyone cares about? saurfang? rexxar? the old gods? the titans? burning legion... sargeras? bolvar?... any of the alliance lore characters...? out of all of that we get the thunder king? which noone has ever heard of or cares about? and sha?

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebears View Post
    i think a huge problem is the lore in this expansion. who seriously cares of pandaria? i didnt think for a single nanosecond about it before the expansion released...

    what about the characters everyone cares about? saurfang? rexxar? the old gods? the titans? burning legion... sargeras? bolvar?... any of the alliance lore characters...? out of all of that we get the thunder king? which noone has ever heard of or cares about? and sha?
    Why do you have a problem with new lore? If we keep on using old characters everything will be the same and the lore will never expand.

    EDIT: Also, all you're trying to do is talk crap about everything in the expansion. You're pretty much talking to yourself and going off-topic in your own thread.
    Last edited by Pebrocks The Warlock; 2013-03-08 at 10:03 PM.
    End SJW
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    I fucking hate this LGBT and gender equality shit invading video games.

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