Only fight that was underwhelming was sadly Deathwing himself, (Spine and Madness), thats the fight that should be most epic, but we ended up killing his nails and some adds.
Rest of the raid was good imo.
Last edited by nemro82; 2013-03-08 at 10:34 PM.
well thankfully this is only your opinion, so of course it holds no water. however i do not AT ALL agree that 2 mechanic fights can still be fun, sure they were fun back in vanilla, TBC, but today? well just as you call blizz lazy for making fights complex (which doesn't make any fucking sense to me) they would be in an uproar with fights being recycled over and over and over again. sure they could be more punishing, but by no means FUN (subjective of course), i like fights where i have to do more then avoid 1 or two things to see the boss fall over dead.
You have your opinions and that's great, but please don't make them seem like everyone shares your opinion.
Sure, every raid has its own ups and downs and everyone have their own opinion of those ups and downs. The thing with this expansions is that 3-4 mechanic fights, where you were thrown 1 mechanic at a time, became too "easy". So they decided to make encounters where you have to deal with much more mechanics that could even happen simultaneously. Plus the fact that the majority of those mechanics going wrong could mean a wipe.
In my opinion doing 1 mechanic every 1.5 minutes is boring. Whereas dealing with adds, boss buffs, different boss abilities that can one shot people, positioning and aoe raid dmg at the same time is not boring. Its challenging even fun. The fights engage everyone in the raid and no one is left to just stand still and spam heals/dmg. Sure there are some fights where this could happen but only a few.
To name a few hard/fun bosses: C'thun prenerf, Yogg + 0 25, LK 25 HC and Ragnaros 25 HC. Those were the days. This tier only had Imperial Vizier preNerf. Waiting for more...
today classes and specs are polished to a point that any fight with 2 mechanics will be just a loot pinata, or there is someone that want to go back at 1 spec half viable era? honestly wanna see all the qq from pala/druid/shaman being returned to the vanilla era.
How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".
The attraction of LFR having its own progression path through the expansion that allows everyone that can meet the gear requirements to do at least a version of 'BC-style progression raiding' would be an obvious bonus. Today, you can get to 90, get to 463 and start at T14 with the clear expectation that you actually will see T15 at some point.
The other point which I thought was obvious was that in the raiding community, there was a lot of chatter about wanting more difficult raids.
So here we are: Three tiers of difficulty; easy, medium and hard. It would make sense that now that LFR is available the difficulty for normal would be a shifted a bit towards more difficulty. It no longer really functions as entry-level for many people.
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-03-08 at 11:32 PM.
- Don't derail threads. Know what the thread is about and address it with your post.
- Civility is a virtue. Insulting people won't impress anyone. Be smart when you have a different opinion.
"It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee house for the voice of the kingdom" - Jonathan Swift
"Forum drama exists because too many people enjoy creating it." - ML/2013
I'm not saying all of this is super cool and mind blowing, but you can't fall on other side of a scale too, and say there was nothing new with straight face.
---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 11:52 PM ----------
I do have to agree with the OP at some points. I realy don't think its a bunch of mechanics that are the problem. FOR ME! it was not that there were alot of mechanics its that they are mostly (5.1 raids) reused mechanics they have used of fights years past. I raided for 6 years and when you are doing a boss and its does something a boss did 4 years ago it gets rather boring. The last time I had ALOT of fun was heroic rag.
Now i can't talk for TOT since i have only realy done the first boss (Got to 10% and wiped so they were not locked) and will not clear it until my guild does alt runs since i no longer raid. Now hopefully TOT isn't in the same boat at 5.1.
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Agreed. That Trash is absurd.I do not mind having to learn complex multi phase fights but I really do not enter a raid instance to spend any time learning how to walk across platforms with wind trying to blow me off while mobs with blue flood lights that knock you about if you are hit cycle up and down and around you while killing trash between bosses that is just plain tuned silly.
I found the first two bosses pretty good though. Esp Horridon, I like it if the first pulls just end in utter chaos.
Well, you're not human. You're Draenei! :<He said if someone liked DS he's not human, wtf ?
Dragon souls ARTWORK was lame, and I mean "ToC lame"™.
Mechanics were fun. Well... except Spine.... brr....
The raid design team seems to be mistaking "complicated" for "complex." Rather than make fights where the mechanics have a certain level of complexity to them, which can be done with fewer mechanics, Blizzard has decided that every fight has to have 10-12 separate mechanics, an add wave, and 90% of the ground will kill you. And that's phase one. The roadblock fight for a lot of casual guilds was Elegon, which had an add, managing your debuff stacks, killing power sparks, and killing columns and the adds that spawned, and a phase 3 burn. Less was more there. The fights in ToT are designed as if they watched Spirit Kings and said "hey, imagine if Spirit Kings was a fight where you faced all four bosses abilities constantly, and the floor randomly exploded every 30 seconds while Flanking Orders had to be killed!"
Someone needs to get dear old Ion off the caffeine.
Ok, you say 'complexity for complexity sake' is bad, but you also want 'challenging but still fun'. There are only two ways to make an encounter a challenge: by making it more complex, or by making it a 'patchwerk' gear check. 'Patchwerk Gear check' fights are not fun. It's just not fun when you and your group know a fight inside and out, strategy perfectly memorized and executed, but still fail because your raid members aren't geared enough.
Now, complex fights... those are, in my opinon, the most engaging and entertaining fights. Why? Because I gotta keep focused on the fights, I gotta learn the bosses' strategies. I gotta know when to swing my weapon, and when the get the hell of the way! It keeps me engaged. Boring things are not fun.
Blizzard makes the fights more 'complex' to keep their playerbase engaged. Why? Because the average raider is getting smarter. So much so that old raid mechanics are not enough, anymore. So, to keep them interested, to keep them challenged, they need to 'up the ante' and make the fights more complex. Because simply making fights a gear check is simply not fun nor engaging.
The thing about MoP that now one cares about is the fact we're fighting un interesting enemies. The Mogu are so poorly implemented I don't care about their back story or them in general. Take a look back at vanilla WoW we were fighting to stop Ragnaros,Nef (Ony and the black dragon flight) and the old god C'Thun. BC we were fighting to stop Illidan and the Burning Legion. Wotlk we were fighting to stop Arthas/the scourge, stop yog and stop the titans from destroying Azeroth. Cata we were fighting to stop Deathwing and Rag (again) on destroying Azeroth. Now in MoP what were fighting some ancient creatures that are reskinned draenei's with a back story that's exciting as watching paint dry?
Also, calling the Mogu 'reskinned Draenei' is a stupid argument. Models have been re-used since the beginning of WoW. Broken use Tauren models, to cite one example. And it seems I need to fix another broken sentence of yours:The thing about MoP that now one cares about is the fact we're fighting enemies that are not interesting to me.
With those sentences properly fixed, I say this. Stop saying lies and spewing opinions as fact. I, for one, find the Mogu interesting. It's not the game's fault you simply cannot bring yourself to care.with a back story that's exciting as watching paint dry to me