anyone else tired of the MoP raid designs?

[SamR]

and what you said about mother sharazz ... i srsly wonder if you were being serious, it was a gear check nothing more nothing less it was the patchwerk/ultraxxion of BT. Always super easy fights mechanics wise to 'gate' the content

I'm not understanding what you're disagreeing with. My point was percisely that there wasn't a lot of mechanics to that fight. Or are you disagreeing that she was the hardest boss in BT? Well, before the nerf she sure was. That's why she got a massive nerf. The biggest nerf that any BT boss got as far as I recall.

[Deleted]

complexity for complexity sake?

what happened to challenging but still fun?

i raided every expansion in competitive guilds spanning 40 mans, to heroic 10 man... and for some reason this expansion... these raid designs really bother me. the only way i can describe the raid design is with a hipsterish/condescending attitude.

i remember a fight as simple as heigan with the safety dance... the fight had like 2 mechanics, was challenging enough but still FUN... what happened to that design? clever mechanics... not just 8-10 random things thrown on the floor/adds...

just seems super lazy to me

TBH, I agree. This new fights have mechanics on top of mechanics, with some extra mechanics added.
I'm not talking about making every boss a Patchwerk fight (I would like to see few of those too), or make it super easy, but do we really need lots of phases, tons of adds, milion of abilities, just explaining the fight to new person takes hours.

[shimerra]

Oh really? Heigan is faceroll easy? Well, at least you can't outgear the encounter. And trust me, lots of people wipe simply because paying attention and walking is too difficult.

You could do heigan 25 the first week if like 8 people actually knew how to do the dance. It wasn't that hard. The wrath version that is. Vanilla nax? Okay.

[Cybran]

The first 6 bosses in ToT i have done so far are fine.

The thing that annoys me are all the adds. Spreading serpent sting to top dps is not interesting at all. The amount of adds and the ways to deal with them could have been better.

[Surfd]

Oh really? Heigan is faceroll easy? Well, at least you can't outgear the encounter. And trust me, lots of people wipe simply because paying attention and walking is too difficult.

Not sure if that is what you really meant, since my guardian druid can run into the instace and burn heigan down before the first dance phaze even starts.

[Synstir]

So reading this thread reminds me of a older thread about this new raid and how it would be EPIC!
I remember Ulduar 2.0.

And reading this thread makes me think that it is somewhat underwhelming?

[Deleted]

So reading this thread reminds me of a older thread about this new raid and how it would be EPIC!
I remember Ulduar 2.0.

And reading this thread makes me think that it is somewhat underwhelming?

Boss mechanic design =! raid instance design.


Imo raiding is now focused on raiders. Pugs with random /2 ppl are horrible nowadays. Casual guilds are suffering too and become "LFR-guilds" instead of wasting time on those new bosses. Alts are only viable in a known environment or you will realize how sad it is to rely on random raids and failing. It might be fun for the higher raid community who wants challenging and keeping on track but there are also those who just want to play their class out every sunday without looking into overloaded boss tactics. There are also those who are new or too casual to understand the concept of "challenging mechanics" we have and just figure, like we all did in the past "uh a fat boss who might hit harder and can use some insane fireball volleys wheee insane boss is insane because he is a boss!". Result is: the nhc crowd is breaking and most are simply going down to lfr instead of up. The bosses where you had to understand the big mechanic once, killed the boss and never wiped again have declined. For the better maybe. For the worse also maybe. Nowadays you have to be focused all time. But its like anywhere: Who does REALLY want that? The big crowd blizzard tried to please so much obviously not. They make the mistake to not gating difficulty anymore. Naxx was the last try do it. It was successful since it attracted more players then ever to raid and that was how they designed that tier, it was just missing the HC-Part hence the outcries of the core-raid-community. Even though it was original mechanic-wise.

[Zaphiron]

It never ceases to amaze me how many ppl complain that mechanics are lame or making fights to hard. For those ppl I have the perfect remedy stop playing!
Go play something that suits you beter, blizzard is working hard on keeping the game interesting and challenging. If they would have kept the same mechanics as in older expentions the game would become boring and ppl would burn through content to fast. If you find the mechanics to hard and can't be bothered to learn them cause you find it frustrating, then raiding is not for you. Like when I stopped with pvp cause of all the balance issues and they where fixed and I started pvp abit again. My point beeing you should take a deep breath in and out and take a break and check if there still thing u like and if not just quit. No game is perfect and neither is WoW, also no one is forcing you to play

[Reyzzz]

Another thread made for the sake of QQing.

Raids are better than ever now, linearity is a very small negative but boss design is awesome.

[l33t]

I don't get one thing.
Madness of Deathwing was the biggest fail of a boss that has ever existed, and thus, the biggest letdown. Why was it so bad? Well - essentially you didn't fight a boss here, only a bunch of deformed adds. When you are told to fight a dragon, you expect to at least face him.
Didn't Blizzard get the memo? Add fights are NOT funny. Yet T14 has a nice bunch of them (Will of the Emperor, from a dps standpoint, is extremly annoying). And as far as I'm concerned... most of T15 are add fights. Horridon, Tortos, Dark Animus, Ji'Kun, the list goes on.
Why? To make a boss entertaining you just let the players face him and hive him an interesting set of skills. Why can't we fight Horridon himself, with a tactic of trying to tame him against his master or crush his skull by charging him into walls? Why are those lackluster adds even required?

It's kinda simple. With all that gear leveling and stats growing, looks like Blizz get themselves cornered. Since average DPS is very high now, thanks to the thousands of stats, average HPS is also huge, they have really no way to create a single boss mechanics without stupid adds and tons of incoming raid damage. Or maybe they are just too lazy to invent something new. Nothing is more simple then throw a boss which hits entire raid every here and there for 400+k damage (stupid healing manasuck), then give him superhardhit ability for tanks (yet another stupid healer manasuck, yeah yeah our regen is so high blablablabla, we so like this craptastic raid and tank damage spikes oh yeah, especially love when you have to outheal tanks AND raid at the same time, wow, bursting heals are SO interesting. First time since playing healer since BC, I feel like I'm having to do some absurd skills rotation on a healer, pure nonsence it is), then let him spawn tons and tons of adds (dps sink). I think by this pattern you should've recognized a standart boss mechanic for the last three years. You may add more frustrating shit that forbiddens a role from using its role abilities in the course of fight - add healing debuff (yet moar manasuck), add casts that needs to be interrupted at almost same time on a bunch of thrash (dps suck), add tank debuffs that turn tank survivability into dust, add precious debuffs that are cast every 1 second on entire raid while your dispell skill is on new glorious omg-its-almost-a-hour cooldown (yet another manasuck with almost 100% of frustration impact on healers, oh yeah baby, its not-to-mention that not every healer class can dispell every debuff type, so if you have two priests, you will never win a fight).
I'm gonna tell you this. I'd love Blizz to start making raids without stupid lfr/norm/hm diversity, just as they've done in the glorious past. And, for the sake of my mind's sanity, I hope they'll make That Great Item Squish as soon as possible, coz this add fights mechanic is awful, and I think pretty much people will agree to this.

[Gimlix]

One of best raiding expansions i think so far, Mechanics are way better then last 2 expansions, also you know it's basicly all the same each expansion, Hard to make up new mechanics each boss fight.

[Pickwickman]

The snake heads boss is something I belive fits with "cleaner and elegant but still challenging encounter".

Don't talk about Mageara mate.... Or hell, don't talk about Tortos either. Most of the complainers in this thread are not 2/12 yet, and are complaining because they can't handle a fight like Horridon.

Also, if you think a fight with just one Main Mechanic is more interesting, then all power to you; that's where LFR is for, for example the Floor Falling at Elegon or the Flanking Orders at Spirit Kings or the Will of the Emperors Devastating Combo.

And let us raiders who want raiding to be more complex and a puzzle where we have to adjust, especially adjust on the fly, have our fun. OP is the type of guy that wants Normal Mode difficulty to be around LFR difficulty.

[crunk]

Somebody hasnt seen dark animus yet lol. and heroic dark animus? oh boy so much fun hope you have a lot of TANKS

[killidan]

complexity for complexity sake?

what happened to challenging but still fun?

i raided every expansion in competitive guilds spanning 40 mans, to heroic 10 man... and for some reason this expansion... these raid designs really bother me. the only way i can describe the raid design is with a hipsterish/condescending attitude.

i remember a fight as simple as heigan with the safety dance... the fight had like 2 mechanics, was challenging enough but still FUN... what happened to that design? clever mechanics... not just 8-10 random things thrown on the floor/adds...

just seems super lazy to me

People have been asking for:
1. no trash
2. no tank and spank
3. special abilities instead of dps check

So now they end up running around like headless chickens in boss fights with 3-4 phases, 5+ special abilities. It is complexity for the sake of complexity. Player loves it and Blizzard is proud of it. It requires movement, anticipation and excessive use of boss mods. It is not about how and how well one plays their toon anymore, it is about running around, grouping in, spreading out, clicking portal, watching meters, mods, distance from other players, etc. Only Vashj, Kaelthas, Illidan and most of Sunwell were like this. Now, every fight feels gimmicky laden with special boss abilities, player tasks. I personally find it more boring than simple tank and spank with occasional movement, but I realize other players love it.

My comments above are in general about WoW's direction, not about any MOP raid tier.

[yjmark]

imho - MoP has some of the best raid designs. Definitely better than most TBC encoutners. Looking back at TBC encounters, those are some of the most boring fights. They were only fun because people were new to raiding.

The issues a lot of people are seeing is that they are getting bored of raiding. Overall, raids are the same basic holy trinity vs boss. Not much in raiding has really changed, and after doing it for 8+ years, it's not very exciting for a lot of people.

That's my subjective opinion anyway

[kennyisnotdead]

Small amount of abilities does not equal more fun, Archimond the guild breaker was great for people who had even the slightest bit of lag. Avoid fire and use the water and he will die at 10 or 20% by sprites. Pre-nerf Gruul was amazing for breaking your face. Very simple bosses that would uttery destroy you with very simple abilities.

I honestly think its a scripting / server resource problem. Bosses can bug too easy when they have small but large abilities and lag is definetly an issue with the forth of july fireworks show on every boss in 25man. Guess they dont want to tell every to turn their graphics down when they just improved their graphics engine.

[Deleted]

I dunno. The only bosses I've disliked thus far are Stone Guard, Amber Shaper and Empress. Only got 1/12 down in ToT so far, but Jin'rokh was fun and I actually really like the Horridon fight.

[killidan]

TBH, I agree. This new fights have mechanics on top of mechanics, with some extra mechanics added.
I'm not talking about making every boss a Patchwerk fight (I would like to see few of those too), or make it super easy, but do we really need lots of phases, tons of adds, milion of abilities, just explaining the fight to new person takes hours.

Brutallus in SWP was like Patchwerk and it was not by any means easy. Healers had to cast nonstop and not oom, dps was a race, tanks were in danger of dying within a second or two. Simple mechanics doesn't mean easy. It was about squeezing the best performance from your class and optimizing. People who tackle all those moving fights with N-phases would fall flat on their face if they were expected to play well, not just run around and watch boss mod timers.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 02:37 PM ----------

if the raids continue the way they are now, and LFR continues... i guarantee the fanboys will be the only ones left dodging a screen of super complex orbs and void zones and absurdly over complex mechanics for no reason.

mists is a horrible expansion, bad for the game, and the raids are designed with the wrong players in mind.

why are 25 mans dying? people dont feel like learning 10 ridiculous mechanics for 12 NEW bosses... theyd rather have fun in LFR and get the SAME gear for almost no effort...

or blizz can remove LFR and start catering fights with FUN to the general player base in mind, and save those absurd mechanics for the heroics/hard modes

I agree it is no fun to go and read 10 mechanics for 12 fights on the PATCH WEEK. In one week, we have to study and learn all the fights and then for 6 months, absolutely nothing. It is not paced well. It should be paced by the difficulty level and gear progression, not by artificial lockouts, hell that's worse than attunement, which at least had a story component.

[MasterHamster]

The arguments are so backwards I don't even know where to start.
More mechanics and complexity = boring

What has raid nostalgia done to you

Just for the fun of it, at some point in the future, someone will bitch and moan about some new raid and refer to ToT being interesting and unique. Actually that has happened to every raid, even TotC and rehashed Naxx. This topic is useless.
Yeah, there are plenty of people who are tired of MoP raids, and those will voice their opinion. Those who aren't tired of them will contently keep playing and have fun.

[suicidebears]

The arguments are so backwards I don't even know where to start.
More mechanics and complexity = boring

What has raid nostalgia done to you

No... You can have fights with less add phases and movement/void zones and dbm spam LIKE brutallus that require skill to play your class, not skill at dodging/memorizing a hundred different mechanics

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 09:49 AM ----------

I actually enjoyed TOTGC. I thought tribute to insanity was a great challenge for the "hard core" while normal totc was challenging enough without being overly complex where your average guild couldnt do it after a while.

My tribute to insanity achievement is one of my proudest moments in wow. Along with my heroic lich king and some other heroic icc fights.