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  1. #1

    got my ass royally kicked while tanking ToT normal trash

    Yesterday, I got invited for a Throne of Thunder trash farm. so far, i've always used my DPS gear to tank with, and it worked out pretty well so far, although only in 5 man content.

    my armory is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced and my weapon/shield combo is the 463 crafted mace and the 463 shield from gate of the setting sun final boss. both blue, but I didn't think that would be an issue.

    so I enter the raid, along with a druid healer, a priest healer, a paladin healer and a druid tank and the rest DPS, and we start pulling. from then on, we enter an entirely different world of hurt. me and the druid tank kept dying and dying. we managed to do 2 full clears of the trash before jin'rokh, but I ended up dying on every single trashpull, and the druid on 75% on them as well, and often more than once (we ran back in since the portal was so close to the spirit healer). I thought that DPS gear was still viable for tanking? then why did I take so much damage?
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Zka's Avatar
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    And then you reset the raid difficulty to 10 man?

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    And then you set back the difficulty to 10 man?
    As far as I know, we didn't put it on 25 man. most trash mobs had 10M HP, which seems like it would be abit low for 25 man trash.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    Yesterday, I got invited for a Throne of Thunder trash farm. so far, i've always used my DPS gear to tank with, and it worked out pretty well so far, although only in 5 man content.

    my armory is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced and my weapon/shield combo is the 463 crafted mace and the 463 shield from gate of the setting sun final boss. both blue, but I didn't think that would be an issue.

    so I enter the raid, along with a druid healer, a priest healer, a paladin healer and a druid tank and the rest DPS, and we start pulling. from then on, we enter an entirely different world of hurt. me and the druid tank kept dying and dying. we managed to do 2 full clears of the trash before jin'rokh, but I ended up dying on every single trashpull, and the druid on 75% on them as well, and often more than once (we ran back in since the portal was so close to the spirit healer). I thought that DPS gear was still viable for tanking? then why did I take so much damage?

    nooooo....you couldnt tank the cutting edge raid trash in your dps gear? who'd have thought that a block tank with no block value would have issues like that....

  5. #5
    The trash hits fairly hard. During some of our trash farming our Main Blood tank and our prot pally died a few times, but that was right after servers went up and everyone's UI was still broken, so.

    EDIT: not to mention all your gear is gemmed with strength as apposed to haste, so that's not helping much.
    Last edited by Revvo; 2013-03-07 at 02:44 PM.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
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  6. #6
    So tanking in dps gear is not viable in an actual raid? :-O

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    nooooo....you couldnt tank the cutting edge raid trash in your dps gear? who'd have thought that a block tank with no block value would have issues like that....
    don't be condescending like that. first off, block value is gone, and if you meant block rating, that's replaced with mastery, of which there is enough on DPS gear.

    secondly, prot paladins are unique in that they can tank using DPS gear perfectly fine. I realize that my gear isn't cutting edge, but I thought it would be good enough to tank normal trash. Or am I that wrong in that respect?

    edit: same goes for you, Durion. in fact, tanking in DPS gear is mathematically proven to be equal to tanking in tanking gear for paladins. they take slightly more damage, but the damage they take is far smoother, with less spikes.
    Last edited by nzall; 2013-03-07 at 02:58 PM.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  8. #8
    Well from what it looks like you could barely do ToT LFR with your item level, and just like most other people are saying it sounds like you need to have some sort of defense rating to even walk in there. Tanking in your DPS gear is def. your issue.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Excess1001 View Post
    Well from what it looks like you could barely do ToT LFR with your item level, and just like most other people are saying it sounds like you need to have some sort of defense rating to even walk in there.
    yeah, I think you're half right. I think my itemlevel is just too low to tank it with DPS gear. i'll wait for 5.2 LFR to come out, get some better DPS gear from there.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    don't be condescending like that. first off, block value is gone, and if you meant block rating, that's replaced with mastery, of which there is enough on DPS gear.

    secondly, prot paladins are unique in that they can tank using DPS gear perfectly fine. I realize that my gear isn't cutting edge, but I thought it would be good enough to tank normal trash. Or am I that wrong in that respect?

    edit: same goes for you, Durion. in fact, tanking in DPS gear is mathematically proven to be equal to tanking in tanking gear for paladins. they take slightly more damage, but the damage they take is far smoother, with less spikes.
    Ï would like to see your math. From what i know tanks use not only block, but also stamina, parry and dodge for tanking.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    Ï would like to see your math. From what i know tanks use not only block, but also stamina, parry and dodge for tanking.
    http://sacredduty.net/2013/02/28/pat...s-simulations/

    Theck explains it far better than I ever could.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  12. #12
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    Using dps gear for tanking new raid trash expecting not to die...

    Dude, just wait until you reach the killer snails before Ji'kun. They're fun. Even the trash after Jin'rokh is a bitch.


    Short story, trash is harder than bosses in the normal version of ToT.
    "When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSC2vx7zFQ

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    nooooo....you couldnt tank the cutting edge raid trash in your dps gear? who'd have thought that a block tank with no block value would have issues like that....
    Quote Originally Posted by Excess1001 View Post
    Well from what it looks like you could barely do ToT LFR with your item level, and just like most other people are saying it sounds like you need to have some sort of defense rating to even walk in there. Tanking in your DPS gear is def. your issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    Ï would like to see your math. From what i know tanks use not only block, but also stamina, parry and dodge for tanking.
    How did you people find this forum?

    There is no block value, block rating, or defense rating.

    Prot pal does not favor dodge or parry gear; in fact, we avoid it. The block we get comes from mastery, which we get through the stat priority of Hit, Exp, Haste, Mastery. Stamina is just...there.

    OP; if you're doing a trash run, you likely have a majority of undergeared and/or underexperienced players (since, otherwise they'd be raiding). The trash before JinRohk is harder than JinRohk. Seriously. And the Bridge Boss after is worse still (AND SNAKES!). Unless your DPS gear is all Crit based (IE no mastery or haste to act as actual tank stats), you'll be fine.

    You're wise to use CDs early and often on the trash, and it's largely up to your healers. Pull small and pull back, as they WILL knock you into other mobs. Seriously, if you kill the trash, try JinRohk, as hes a complete JinJoke (LOL).
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    EDIT: not to mention all your gear is gemmed with strength as apposed to haste, so that's not helping much.
    I thought you wanted pure yellows for both tanking and DPS.......

  15. #15
    for some reason, i'm attracting a lot of people who don't regularly post in the paladin forums. I know that many people like to lurk, but believe me when i say that paladins actually can viably use DPS gear for tanking. Could i get a paladin forum regular in here, like Requital, Anaxie, Synthaxx or Badpaladin? someone who actually knows something about paladin tanking?

    I can totally accept that my gear is just underleveled, and I'm fairly sure that's a large part of the issue. but DPS gear should be fine to tank raids with, and takes less damage spikes.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I thought you wanted pure yellows for both tanking and DPS.......
    For a few classes. For most, 160 primary stats>320 secondaries. I think ret is one of them that prefers 160 strength to, say, 320 haste.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  17. #17
    my gems are still from a transitionary period, where my STR was worth more dan double my haste. but i'm switching it around now.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    for some reason, i'm attracting a lot of people who don't regularly post in the paladin forums. I know that many people like to lurk, but believe me when i say that paladins actually can viably use DPS gear for tanking. Could i get a paladin forum regular in here, like Requital, Anaxie, Synthaxx or Badpaladin? someone who actually knows something about paladin tanking?

    I can totally accept that my gear is just underleveled, and I'm fairly sure that's a large part of the issue. but DPS gear should be fine to tank raids with, and takes less damage spikes.
    Req rerolled monk, and Anaxie I doubt will pop his head in a tank thread, but who knows. At any rate, you did seem to disturb the trolls. I said as much in my previous post. I think your issue lies with the general lack of cohesion in trash clearing pugs. The TOT trash is no joke, so don't expect to waltz over it. That said, as some have pointed out, you're gemming almost straight STR. This does little to nothing to help your DPS-Tank ability. At your ilvl, you'd be better off gemming straight haste (or str/haste, haste/hit when needed for bonus) for both Ret and Prot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    For a few classes. For most, 160 primary stats>320 secondaries. I think ret is one of them that prefers 160 strength to, say, 320 haste.
    Newp. Ret (by and large, YMMV at very low OR very high gear levels) prefers 320 Haste > 160 STR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  19. #19
    High Overlord Nemre's Avatar
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    Not much to add since i know jack about paladins,just wanted to say hi,i was the raid leader of the trash run

  20. #20
    Ohboy ok I'll bite, yes you can tank the trash in dps gear, however you're probably just a tad undergeared for it. I've done multiple trash runs with groups of 10 all the way down to a group of (4 guildies all with 504+ ilvl) even at my level trash still hurts, you just have to manage them properly and time CD's for certain effects.

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