1. #1

    Renataki's Soul Charm undervalued?

    Hey guys, i got my hands on the trinket and am a little torn between what my Gut-Feeling suggests and what Shadowcraft lists.
    The Problem is, im playing Subtlety and the Profile on SC is... wonky, at least.


    The Hunter in my Group said it's BiS for them, and he has similar Stat Priorities as me...so i dont really know what to do now.
    SC states that my Relic of Xuen 2/2 is still superior. Uptime on both Procs is roughly the same...sadly, my Math sucks.

    Any help with how i can Math out the EP Values for the Procs?

  2. #2
    I too feel like it's being undervalued, at least in Shadowcraft, but I have no math to back it up, just how I was playing when I had mine equipped. I went from 510 Bottle/517 Terror to 510 Bottle/528 Renataki's. My guess is it's the Expertise pushing it way down the list, with it equipped and reforged I am still something like 8.99% Expertise. And the proc uptime does seem to be somewhat random, at least what I've noticed on a dummy.
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  3. #3
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Perhaps I'm looking at this in an all too simple fashion but I get that the proc is worth about 1574 agility.

    EDIT: Double upgraded relic works out around 5k EP, if my simple maths is right, then Soul Charm works out around 5.9k EP - so to the best of my knowledge, it should be better than double upgraded relic.

    (this is assuming you can put all the expertise to use, of course)
    Last edited by Ryme; 2013-03-08 at 03:36 PM. Reason: Updated to factor in rough haste effects
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  4. #4
    Renataki's is weak similar to bad juju in that is has a very low proc rate/long effective ICD. Shadowcraft is ranking it very low because shadowcraft uses drop in upgrades so if you are exp capped or close to exp capped then shadowcraft assumes all that static expertise will be wasted. In practice using all the expertise on that trinket is going to be very hard making it somewhat worse then other trinkets.

  5. #5
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Oh, I should add a disclaimer - I'm awful with the new RPPM system, especially after it's changes with "real" haste.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 03:42 PM ----------

    In spite of that, and please, anyone try and correct me here, the trinket breaks even with double upgrade relic when you can effectively use roughly 680 of the expertise on it.
    Last edited by Ryme; 2013-03-08 at 03:49 PM.
    I am the lucid dream
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  6. #6
    That is probably accurate, exact EP values may vary but relic is actually a pretty weak trinket overall, many of us are still using it because heroic terror was the only thing better but that doesn't mean either are all that good.

    Really though the ease of availability of the vp trinket makes pretty much all the normal trinkets basically uninteresting unless you don't have a heroic bottle.

  7. #7
    Renataki's Soul Charm MAY be undervalued, but if you're able to kill at least 3 bosses this week, Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault should serve you better.
    Carp - Illidan-US
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    Renataki's Soul Charm MAY be undervalued, but if you're able to kill at least 3 bosses this week, Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault should serve you better.
    EDIT: it takes 3 bosses to hit friendly, or alternatively, farm trash, then do the Key run, and you should be friendly without a boss kill (note: not 100% sure you can cross the 2999 to friendly break with a quest, but I think you can).

    ...but yes, the Vicious Talisman is a good pick for now.

    *corrected by Carp... and my guildies who didn't see the trash before raid night.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-09 at 05:08 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    I'm not really able to check this, since I went in to save time and killed trash before our first run, but shouldn't the first boss always put you at friendly? Alternatively, farm trash, then do the Key run, and you should be friendly without a boss kill (note: not 100% sure you can cross the 2999 to friendly break with a quest, but I think you can).

    ...but yes, the Vicious Talisman is a good pick for now.
    It took my guild 3 bosses to hit Friendly. There were some that finished it before, but most of them took 3 bosses to do it. Kind of weird, I know.
    I'd also recommend doing a trash run or two and using a Shado-Pan Assault Insignia to get past the 2999 Neutral cap.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  10. #10
    The value of the trinket goes down a lot if you can't use all of the expertise. Caps are getting increasingly trivial to reach and so far this expansion blizzard seems to think it's a good idea to put hit/exp on everything.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    The value of the trinket goes down a lot if you can't use all of the expertise. Caps are getting increasingly trivial to reach and so far this expansion blizzard seems to think it's a good idea to put hit/exp on everything.
    Yeah, but are things considered like holding on a SD-CD until 10 Seconds of "Blades", then going into a Dance with 13k Agi +?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    Yeah, but are things considered like holding on a SD-CD until 10 Seconds of "Blades", then going into a Dance with 13k Agi +?
    No, but the likelihood of that occurring (the trinket overlapping with your ShD CD in a comfortable fashion) is relatively low since it's a low RPPM ability, and not a 2m ICD. Also, you likely don't actually want to wait for that bonus, since the greatest gain (someone correct me if this has changed from cata) for sub from ShD is the FW buff and not the ambushes - which means that, ideally, you keep as much agility as possible through FW, and not just through the ambush section of FW.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouk View Post
    Yeah, but are things considered like holding on a SD-CD until 10 Seconds of "Blades", then going into a Dance with 13k Agi +?
    RPPM trinkets are extremely unreliable, unlike ICD + proc chance trinkets. Waiting 10 seconds has a good chance of doing nothing other than delaying your ShD 10 seconds.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    No, but the likelihood of that occurring (the trinket overlapping with your ShD CD in a comfortable fashion) is relatively low since it's a low RPPM ability, and not a 2m ICD. Also, you likely don't actually want to wait for that bonus, since the greatest gain (someone correct me if this has changed from cata) for sub from ShD is the FW buff and not the ambushes - which means that, ideally, you keep as much agility as possible through FW, and not just through the ambush section of FW.
    It happened once in a while last Raid, i tried to line up Vanish or SD. I tried to dance in the last Half to boost my Evis Damage (has improved ALOT since Cata) and wanted my Finishers to get the full Benefit from Blades-Stacks. It boosts my Agi by around 50%, and the difference between a 230k Evis and 450k Evis is nothing to cough at.

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