Salon article - "Can men be taught not to rape?"

[D_K_night]

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/08/can_...t_not_to_rape/

Here's an excerpt:

"I don’t think that we should be telling women anything. I think we should be telling men not to rape women and start the conversation there.” She told Hannity, “You’re talking about this as if it’s some faceless, nameless criminal, when a lot of times it’s someone you know and trust,” adding, “If you train men not to grow up to become rapists, you prevent rape.”

--

I agree with the central idea, but disagree with the approach.

Men are not wild beasts who need to be trained like animals to prevent this or that behavior. This should not be some kind of crusader mission which targets solely one group, shifts all the blame and accountability on them to change, and engage in blame tactics.

The people who engage in these monstrous acts...with the most extreme sadistic cases put aside, I do believe that much of this can be avoid entirely, IF:

- More programs, social instruction, and simply more explicitly defined social rules were made more clear, and incentives as a result of following through as such.

To illustrate, let's think back to the old days of the 1800's of England customs. A gentlemen was expected to act a very specific way, but more importantly society had rigidly defined protocol on how to greet a lady, how to engage in small talk, what behaviors were completely unacceptable, so on and so forth. Today these are completely silly and absurd, but some gentlemanly actions persist today, but by and large this a free for all. There is no hard and fast rule for anyone to enforce nor frown upon.

But most of all, no clear and firm direction, no "how-to" guide or a set of standards that are accepted as the standard for person-to-person communications. I'm not talking about pick-up artist guides(which deserves a separate topic altogether). Calling someone "stupid" or "retarded" for not simply picking up subtle social cues, misreading/misjudging a person's facial expressions, tone and delivery of their words does not help anyone.I believe there's a level of frustration behind the actions that lead up to rape. This goes beyond just simple mis-communication. "Common sense" is not the same thing to the next guy.

There needs to be a "how-to" gentleman's handbook which contains content that everyone from your grandmother, the single female family members looking for a bf/husband, to your little sisters upon reading it, universally agree that this is the ruleset to be followed by men.

It doesn't mean that you copy paste everything that's in the book and follow everything so rigidly that you become the butt of everyone's jokes. It does mean however, that OK - when all else fails? Fall back upon the handbook and adhere to the principles within, which would have had the enthusiastic approval and satisfaction from three different generations of women.

This is what I believe, would go a long way towards resolving the issue.

[Deleted]

I think we should teach teach women how NOT to get raped, it is just as good an idea as the one posted.

[Talokami]

I think we should teach teach women how NOT to get raped, it is just as good an idea as the one posted.

Can't speak for the UK, but they definitely do in the US. The biggest problem is getting people to listen and sometimes, sadly, you do everything you can to stay safe and it happens.

There's an unequal exchange where women are terrified of it and men just sort of shrug and don't see how it can be so frightening. I realize that's a broad blanket statement but to me I feel that's a significant part of the problem. Men hear how scary it is but it's more of a bogeyman than a possibility to them, as far as society is concerned.

That's the part that needs to change.

[jackofwind]

The narrow-minded premise that you can simply "teach men not to rape" is nothing more than a male-targeted reciprocal of the much maligned concept of "teaching women how to make sure they don't get raped".

The issue isn't that simple, and both sides are far too hypocritical in their crusades.

[Deleted]

I think we should treat all young boys as potential rapists. Boys should grow up feeling confused, ashamed, guilty and insecure because of their gender.

[oblivionx]

Conversely to the original point, if you teach women to grow up and be so easy to have sex with all you have to is ask for sex there won't be rape.

It's about as ridiculous as the original premise.

[Deleted]

I think we should treat all young boys as potential rapists. Boys should grow up feeling confused, ashamed, guilty and insecure because of their gender.

I think every child should have a beating every morning, they are bound to do something during the day that deserves it.

[Dillon]

Nothing stops a rapist quicker than 115 grains of 9mm JHP.

[Revik]

I have to shake my head on this one. Rape is a horrific act and something that should not be tolerated that being said teaching anyone not to rape is not as simple as it sounds. Human interaction is complex there is no one size fits all solution.

What they are asking is akin to asking women to always be straightforward and honest and never ever play stupid mind games.

[Shahad]

I think some of you are forgetting that rapists usually do so because they like being in complete control of another person in the way rape enclines. The reasons as for why they feel this need for control are up for debate.

[Laize]

Yeah let's teach boys not to rape.

While we're at it, why don't we teach everyone not to steal, lie or cheat? That totally works, right?

The idea of "teach men not to rape" is so amazingly sexist and stupid I usually don't even bother addressing it when someone suggests it. 99.99% (or more) of men do not rape anyone. In the US, this unfortunately means there are still about 16,000 men who do.

Does that mean we should throw the other 159,984,000 males into a classroom and lecture them about how their sex makes them innately evil?

[Roose]

Maybe women should stop rewarding assholes with sex. Fighting nature unfortunately. Alpha males are aggressive assholes. For some reason women seem to like that.

[Victoriaautmors]

I dont get her point, children everywhere are already thought that rape is wrong. They are also thought that killing, stealing, violence and a lot of other things are wrong but still that doesent stop people from doing it... Not everything can be stopped by education, some people are just plain scum. In reply to OPs suggestion most of rapists dont do it because they are socially awkward and dont know how to approach a women but because they are fucked up meaning mentally ill or psychopaths.

[Gamdwelf]

What they are asking is akin to asking women to always be straightforward and honest and never ever play stupid mind games.

Article - "Can women be taught to always be straightforward and honest and never ever play stupid mind games?"

[Raidenx]

Reminds me of the girl talked about in the latter part of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfkS9YS_T0k

[Deleted]

Maybe women should stop rewarding assholes with sex.

Stop rewarding assholes with sex? What the hell are you on about?

[Laize]

Maybe women should stop rewarding assholes with sex.

And take more responsible measures than thinking it doesn't matter what they wear or where they wear it?

Of COURSE it's not your fault if you're raped when you wear a miniskirt and heels to a dive bar.

It's also not my fault if I get stabbed while wearing the same sandwich board Bruce Willis did in Die Hard 3 while walking around Camden, NJ.

That doesn't mean either is a fucking good idea.

[Zogarth]

I think that in any civiliced country a man knows how not to rape... But then again, this mainly America being talked about.

Infracted: Please refrain from nation bashing.

[Shadowmelded]

Stop rewarding assholes with sex? What the hell are you on about?

Apparently good behavior should result in sex. Now there's an incentive for world peace.

[Gamdwelf]

I think that in any civiliced country a man knows how not to rape... But then again, this mainly America being talked about.

Yeah and since the USA is the most civilized country there are like no rapes ever.