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  1. #1

    5.2 Feral Druid BiS Trinket / Tier Normal

    Hi im Krokarr 1/12 Heroic ToT 25 man US in LA, Stormrage
    Wanted to get more insight from other people on ptr and live on their results for Tier and BiS trinkets Normal
    Most BIS gear is very simple in terms of more agility from thunderforged and close evaluation from
    mmo-champion.com/threads/1197116-Feral-The-art-of-a-Kitten-PvE-guide[/url] Soul forest/Doc

    Tier,
    Im looking into whether taking more thunderforged / heroic pieces over 4 set would be smart, since our 2 set will give us more lee way and the 4 set helping us easily fit in Ferocious bite / rakes with DoC line up and still have Combos for our next SR and Rip
    - Regarding 4 set is high priority, we should always take a non tier thunderforged piece as our off piece,
    regarding simple calcuations if resulted in no thunderforged drops,
    - Shoulders and chest tier provide the most agility to stat ratio. to competitve raid drops
    - Glove tier to raid drop is a 20 ag to 200 stat loss, but not as bad as
    - Leg tier and Helm tier to drop due to bad itemization, these two are the best non tier in opinion. personally best to do helm as first boss would be first heroic to clear for 535 helm

    Trinkets,
    -There has been alot of contraversy, for Rune of Origination, static agility with a long ICD uptime, and whether stacking mastery to crit for this.
    -Compared to bloodlust trinket with a lot of consistent income of haste, although its our worst stat compared to other long icds and static agility that it has .... opinions
    -Bad juju having static mastery and a fair icd and ppm , makes me believe this to be our 2nd BiS next to a static Agility one, depending on how high that agility will scale to this ones proc to overall ratio
    -Valor is on spot almost the same evaluation to juju more agility but not as good static stats as this tier hit exp begins to bring problems
    -Renataki's as im beginning to test, similiar ppm/icd, if you can manage the expertise, it will all depend on time of fight and rotation if clipped properly at middle and end with rake, and near end with Rip, i can see this potential reaching ahead of juju and valor.

    Please Post Opinions, experiences and Inisights, i am strictly speaking opinion.

    To current findings it is Rune > Soul Charm => Juju for trinkets atm, haste does affect ppm proc rates and balances during rune procs, currently make ur bis dependent on tier vs agility pieces, stats are not consistent and nowhere near what agility is providing our overall dps atm
    Last edited by Krokarr; 2013-03-19 at 05:23 PM.

  2. #2
    mrrobot says shadopan is bis, can anyone confirm?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratogod View Post
    mrrobot says shadopan is bis, can anyone confirm?
    The only issue with a 15 % chance to proc on a 105 icd, would make it gradually miss berserk, not to mention a long icd,
    where as today they have all ToT Raid trinkets getting a 10 % + to proc chance, ive done test on the expertise stacking agility trinket and had it proc around 15-35seconds into combat, but had it proc every 45-1.5 mins on avg. Yet to test some others on live

  4. #4
    Rune of reorigination is easily BIS from the sims I have seen. Even the LFR one is the better than anything else.

    When you get it, try get exactly the same of mastery, crit and haste (1:1:1 ratio that is) while making sure that mastery still is the highest. When it procs you refresh your bleeds to make full use of the extra mastery. The haste is to make the trinket proc more and crit is good when you already have your bleeds up. At very high gear levels you should switch to rake for combo generation if the trinket procs (unless you just put up a rake with a lot of +agi proc) then switch back to shred.

    Bloodlust trinket is awful! Worse than Relic trinket.

    Rentakiki is slightly better than Bad juju.

  5. #5
    Rune of Re-Origination is best by a huge margin and either Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault or Renataki's Soul Charm are competitive for the second slot post RPPM change.

    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...&t=1883#p11158
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-03-14 at 04:31 PM.

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  6. #6
    question 2, bad juju?

  7. #7
    Doing Simply calculations from bad juju to soul charm the stacking agility eventually very minimally surpasses it, but what makes it a better trinket in comparison to the Juju is the snapshot of the near end agility stack u can get with all 3 bleeds. This in regards requires set addons to track this or good player awareness as ppm trinkets cannot be always predicted, this is in synergy like how Affliction Warlock dots were with sha of fear haste proc trinket, clashing ur redotting at beginning and end of the proc, similiar, but mainly capturing ur rake mid way and end, and your rip near end.

    Keep in check of your hit/exp caps from BiS gear as this can be an issue as time progresses

  8. #8
    redo the math please, its all wrong

  9. #9
    lmfao smart ass, of course my raid leader would quote on my forums lol

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    "Relying that the sims are acurate since i've not made them myself"



    This is made with the simulationcraft priority system, if you are not following similar priority for some reason to start of with this could be inacurate.
    For stats and reforging it is hard to tell when to go for haste after mastery it will be depending on how many RPPM procs you have... the more procs based on RPPM the higer the value of haste will be because the higer uptime you'll have on those procs.

    Because we'r being fucked over on Thunderforging off pices in normal it will be hard to tell X is best op but Z(TF) is better then X etc. Basically Chests Heads and Legs thunder forged will be better then Shoulders and Gloves because the ilvl diffrence between gloves normal and Thunderforges will give alot less agility then comparing to chest normal and chest thunderforged. Personally i've never achived BiS more then DS farming so i'm not the person that goes into detail more then knowing what tier+op and trinket i want.
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
    Why?
    He will find an easy way to do it.


    I'm schizophrenic and alone... at least I got each other

  11. #11
    Yah i was hearing that once you acquire Your two main trinkets between Origination and Juju/Soulcharm, that Haste significantly becomes better due to the fact that ppm procs as its known are generally haste evaluated, from what im seeing at this point is people going after High Agility pieces, and simply forging stats to and from as they need at this point

    Thanks a lot for the post on > btw
    mmo-champion.com/threads/1275664-T15-Feral-DPS-Improvements-ToT-Boss-Breakdown

  12. #12
    I got my Bad Juju on Council this ID and replaced my 510 Bottle with it. After a few raids and lots of target dummy testing i'm really disappointed by the trinket, even after the 10% proc increase. Blizzard somewhere said there's a high chance for ppm trinkets to proc at the start of the fight. Bad Juju often procced first between 30 and 60 seconds after the pull, while the Shado-Pan trinket and the bottle both reliably procced within the first 5 seconds to power up my first Rip.
    Secondly, the ppm mechanic is the new king of RNG. I had a single proc during the complete Tortos fight and 9 procs while fighting twin consorts. Both after the recent change to the ppm trinkets.

    Tortos: worldoflogs.com/ reports / rt-d2hw1jit8r7p7c2i/ details/ 56/ ?s=7175&e=7507
    Twins: worldoflogs.com/ reports / rt-iq1rhzgqx2o403cx/ details/ 2/ ?s=79&e=635

    Remove spaces as i'm not allowed to post links

    I don't like that kind of randomness to be honest. I looked at some old logs with the Bottle equipped and found out it had an average 40-42% uptime. Bad Juju on the other hand seems to have 15-17% on average.

    Long story short, i'll bank Juju and equip the bottle again until i get a 535 trinket.

  13. #13
    as they are saying haste for every class is directly affecting the ppm proc rates, depending on if its a melee swing ppm
    the fact that we use high speed weps and primarily do not stack haste at all for Kitties, hinders us greatly

    In some forums im finding they are actually saying strictly go after the most agility pieces and some haste is even good when u running rune with juju/soul charm the fact that the haste will up proc times and balance when rune procs.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Caterpillar View Post
    I don't like that kind of randomness to be honest. I looked at some old logs with the Bottle equipped and found out it had an average 40-42% uptime. Bad Juju on the other hand seems to have 15-17% on average.
    Working as intended. Bottle has a very high uptime:ICD ratio whereas Juju is designed to have a significantly stronger proc and lower uptime. You really can't say "it has less uptime so it's bad" if that's what you were trying to say.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Working as intended. Bottle has a very high uptime:ICD ratio whereas Juju is designed to have a significantly stronger proc and lower uptime. You really can't say "it has less uptime so it's bad" if that's what you were trying to say.
    Bottle = 3935 Agi (510) with > 40% uptime
    Juju = 7333 Agi (522)

    Juju needs > 20% uptime to be an improvement, ignoring the slight increase in mastery.

  16. #16
    while the Shado-Pan trinket and the bottle both reliably procced within the first 5 seconds to power up my first Rip.
    Reliably.. hm. It does proc in the beginning maybe 70% of the time I have noticed. It's just annoying when it does not.
    Another annoying issue is that the soul charm trinket has only stacked to maximum 5 when I want to put up my initial rip.

    I have found the soul charm trinket to proc off fearie fire (I stand in back and faerie fire while running towards boss). Does this mean anything for us? Would we want to ALWAYS use free gcd's for fearie fire (and healing touch for dancing steel) in order to maximise proc uptimes?
    I do this anyways, but it would still be nice to have confirmed.

    EDIT: derp wrong trinketnames

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Caterpillar View Post
    Bottle = 3935 Agi (510) with > 40% uptime
    Juju = 7333 Agi (522)

    Juju needs > 20% uptime to be an improvement, ignoring the slight increase in mastery.
    And it does have > 20% uptime in sims (~23% in heroic gear, to be exact), the number you cited is definitely on the bad luck side.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
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  18. #18
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Karlzone has a good point... in that subject i have to say i hate dancing steel on pre HT before pull ._.
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
    Why?
    He will find an easy way to do it.


    I'm schizophrenic and alone... at least I got each other

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Reliably.. hm. It does proc in the beginning maybe 70% of the time I have noticed. It's just annoying when it does not.
    Another annoying issue is that the soul charm trinket has only stacked to maximum 5 when I want to put up my initial rip.

    I have found the soul charm trinket to proc off fearie fire (I stand in back and faerie fire while running towards boss). Does this mean anything for us? Would we want to ALWAYS use free gcd's for fearie fire (and healing touch for dancing steel) in order to maximise proc uptimes?
    I do this anyways, but it would still be nice to have confirmed.

    EDIT: derp wrong trinketnames
    It will proc on your first hit 100% of the time IF you haven't had a proc in long enough prior to the pull. If you just cleared trash before you pulled the boss that won't be the case.

    Pretty much all trinkets now proc off everything (despite the tooltips saying otherwise). I know for a fact that both of the trinkets I use (Bottle and Talisman) both proc off of Faerie Fire, Wrath, and Moonfire.

    And no, there's no purpose in faerie fire'ing for more proc chances, RPPM mechanics completely negate that being a gain.

    @Etapicx: The proc chance returns to it's full value once it's been 10 seconds since an event that could proc it. If you cast your prepull healing touch at least 10 seconds before you pull the boss (which you should be) it makes no difference.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
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    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  20. #20
    According to this thunderforged trinkets are worse than normal versions?

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