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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Just out of curiosity why exactly do people feel new 5-mans are needed?
    Because it is something to whine about. I assure you if Blizzard had said they were going to do new 5 mans every patch most of these same exact people would whine about that as well.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerdoz View Post
    I am happy to hear there wont be anymore 5mans in this expansion.
    Good for you and still you will get new raid on end expansion, but what about other people who enjoy 5 mans dungeon more than raid.

  3. #383
    I don't know what's worse, the fact that Blizzard are becoming lazier by the minute or the people supporting their laziness.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    I don't know what's worse, the fact that Blizzard are becoming lazier by the minute or the people supporting their laziness.
    I don't think it's laziness per se. It probably has more to do with designing sizable raids and providing art assets for everything. It's common knowledge (because Blizz has said this a few times) that one of their major design constraints is art.
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  5. #385
    I had to respond to this thread. I have been raiding save for a small bit of Cata since MC dropped tier 2 gear. So, longer than almost everyone in this thread.

    5 man dungeons do serve a purpose, that purpose is fun. There are many people, like myself and those in my guild, that used to do the 5 man dungeons in WOTLK, for all the cool achievements and wacky things you can do in them. That of course, eventually paid off in a reward. It was FUN to get 4 people together on a non-raid night, when everyone was board, and go in there (sometimes drunk) and just mess around trying to get achievements for people and doing off the wall things.

    Everyone in this thread keeps looking at it like they are robots. Not everyone wants to raid, and many people want things to do when the raid is finished. If the entire game is just set up so you can eventually raid, then Blizzard wasted their time on all the features that do not involving raiding at all.

    As cool as LFR is, it's still just LFR. You can still do it only once a week. Dungeons you can run any time, with your friends, your alts, and achieve things inside the dungeons that other aspects of the game do not lend themselves to.

    Scenarios are to fast, boring and linear. They are great the first time, then you never want to do them again. Blizzard is only working on them because they are easier to create and offer most classes instant ques.

    Some of the most fun I have ever had in World of Warcraft comes from crazy dungeon runs on a Saturday night when everyone was bored. Scenarios simply do not offer this for anyone.

    Replacing dungeons with LFR is a mistake. Raids do not serve the same purpose, they can't be done with a small group of friends, they require half the players to carry the other half who can't be bothered reading about their class for 2 minutes in 8 years. They can also be a massive ordeal in frustration, and many many many players don't do them. Myself included.

    As I stated before, I was raiding and doing dungeons in my spare time with friends for a laugh. I don't want to raid then raid again with people I don't know. I am not saying LFR isn't useful, obviously it is. I am saying Blizzard needs to take another looking at their lack of commitment to Dungeons.

    If they don't want to offer gear. Then make dungeons and create tons of crazy, insane, fun and interesting achievements inside of them. Where you get awesome rewards like mounts, pets, transmog gear as you progress through the various achievements. People will run them, have fun, and they won't be forced on people as progression.

    With all this said, MOP has been, IMO, the best expansion to date. There is SO much to do in the game that it can overwhelm people sometimes. With rumours about whats around the corner from Blizzard (leveling scaling for classic stuff, pet breeding etc..), I can honestly say NO Blizzard is not getting lazy. I just think, for whatever reason, there are some developers making decisions based on their own personal experiences and not the experiences of a mass majority of players. Analytics and metrics can only tell you so much, but they can't tell you how someone feels.ng as those making
    Last edited by Titan; 2013-03-10 at 07:12 AM.

  6. #386
    Really, that is crap. I wouldn't mind if there were no new dungeons if there were a ton of them to do, but seriously there isn't. 9 of the same dungeons is utterly boring for so long. I mean I really don't do scenarios outside of needing the 40 VP reward and doing new ones. I do dungeons more just due to the VP reward. Dungeons are just more interesting to me too. It gets so boring after looking at the same stuff over and over again. I understand why new dungeons would be hard to fit into the grand scheme of things, but I did wish they would add new dungeons. The 9 same dungeons for a entire expansions is just awful. Give people a alternative to gearing up outside of LFR and something new to do.
    Last edited by Theendgamelv3; 2013-03-10 at 07:12 AM.

  7. #387
    I doubt many players have run all the 5-mans more than once or twice, if that. There's just no reason to do them unless you can do them very efficiently, because the rewards are so minimal.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Okay then put 5 mans in for that. I really don't care. The simple fact is that they aren't supporting the playstyle that many of us over the years loved and you can call me self entitled all you want it doesn't change the fact. Instead of calling for some moderation and BLizzard to relook at what it's doing you'd rather turn on your fellow players. Cataclysm 2.0 folks. Replace hard dungeons with more grind and that's where your at.

    It's a fucking label you can apply so you can dismiss my criticism. That's fine I understand you need that but it doesn't make it true. You can label me as that but I don't have to accept it and I don't. What I want is to be rewarded for my time NOT BE SUBJECT TO RNG or do fucking dailies. The game doesn't reward me for the time I invest and no activity in the game feels rewarding enough. YOu consider that self entitled, I don't. that's just something you throw around to dismiss people with criticism.
    You talk a good game about getting gear for your time, but you do realize other than the rare epic drop until WOTLK people never got epics in 5 mans right? Then Cata hit and the epics stopped being dropped in 5 mans until the last bit of Crapaclysm, so by your standards saying you wanted it like BC and Vanilla you are actually getting it, you are getting blues.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan View Post
    5 man dungeons do serve a purpose, that purpose is fun.
    As has been proven time and time again, give the WoW community something that's potentially fun with only cosmetic rewards and barely anyone will run it. We're talking about a community where someone wants flying mounts gone because they prefer to look at the world from the ground. Which they can still do. But won't unless forced to.

    Mentally, it's reached a point where the best course of action might perhaps be doing away with stats altogether... but just try to imagine the amount of whining that would cause.

    I don't know why this is the case actually. It's been happening at least since TBC.

    But anyhoo, without actual gear dropping from the new dungeons, people wouldn't run them. However, if they did choose to add gear, it would again have to be high enough ilvl to compete with LFR... meaning people would only run the new dungeons, then complain how they have nothing to do but run the same stuff over and over again every day. Eventually, people wouldn't even bother anymore due to burnout.

    I mean, we've been there several times before. Always, ALWAYS it ended in people complaining. Loudly. And those that were fine with the content got shafted when fewer and fewer people chose to run it.

    Now, there may be a way to fix this, though it's sorta time- and resource-consuming. Provide different tiers of 5-mans... where the old ones scale up. Say we get 10 new 5-mans in patch X.0.1, then 2 more in patch X.2, with the entry level gear for the first tier of HCs being X20 and the second X50. But instead of having the X50 crowd run the same two dungeons a bazillion times, make a seperate version of the old ones that drops the same ilvl loot as the new dungeons and automatically unlocks once you hit gear level X50.

    (Then get masses of BLIZZARD U LAZY, NOW U JUST REHASH SAME EXPANSION CONTENT, WOW IS DEAD posts. As always.)



  10. #390
    Unlike Dailies and Scenarios, 5-man Heroic takes some efforts to make.

    Currently Blizzard is trying to put least efforts in, and get most subs out.
    The same raid can create 5 different tiers.
    Last edited by xenogear3; 2013-03-10 at 08:11 AM.

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan View Post
    5 man dungeons do serve a purpose, that purpose is fun. There are many people, like myself and those in my guild, that used to do the 5 man dungeons in WOTLK, for all the cool achievements and wacky things you can do in them. That of course, eventually paid off in a reward. It was FUN to get 4 people together on a non-raid night, when everyone was board, and go in there (sometimes drunk) and just mess around trying to get achievements for people and doing off the wall things.
    They are playing to the majority of the crowd, everyone races to end game content to raid, sure there are people who find 5 mans fun and go for achievements and what not but if you look at LFD you get the "GO GO GO" people who just want to be done and over with so they can move on their next one and do that one super fast without a thought in their head, Blizzard caught hell for so long about bad raids and they are trying to make up for it so I guess what I have to say is........

    Welcome to what raiders have felt for most expansions since WOTLK, it's 5 man players turn to sit on the bench.

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Thanks. Now I know, that I won't resub in this xpack.
    You dont resub only because there won't be dungeons? That's idiotic.

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokann View Post
    As has been proven time and time again, give the WoW community something that's potentially fun with only cosmetic rewards and barely anyone will run it. We're talking about a community where someone wants flying mounts gone because they prefer to look at the world from the ground. Which they can still do. But won't unless forced to.

    Mentally, it's reached a point where the best course of action might perhaps be doing away with stats altogether... but just try to imagine the amount of whining that would cause.

    I don't know why this is the case actually. It's been happening at least since TBC.

    But anyhoo, without actual gear dropping from the new dungeons, people wouldn't run them. However, if they did choose to add gear, it would again have to be high enough ilvl to compete with LFR... meaning people would only run the new dungeons, then complain how they have nothing to do but run the same stuff over and over again every day. Eventually, people wouldn't even bother anymore due to burnout.

    I mean, we've been there several times before. Always, ALWAYS it ended in people complaining. Loudly. And those that were fine with the content got shafted when fewer and fewer people chose to run it.

    Now, there may be a way to fix this, though it's sorta time- and resource-consuming. Provide different tiers of 5-mans... where the old ones scale up. Say we get 10 new 5-mans in patch X.0.1, then 2 more in patch X.2, with the entry level gear for the first tier of HCs being X20 and the second X50. But instead of having the X50 crowd run the same two dungeons a bazillion times, make a seperate version of the old ones that drops the same ilvl loot as the new dungeons and automatically unlocks once you hit gear level X50.

    (Then get masses of BLIZZARD U LAZY, NOW U JUST REHASH SAME EXPANSION CONTENT, WOW IS DEAD posts. As always.)
    1000% This.. The most comprehensive post I have seen in this thread and pretty much what I was thinking in that you can only do dungeons so often before they become boring as all heck.. Can you imagine how much Blizz would have to pump out 5 mans to keep the people happy but without rehashing content..

  14. #394
    I find it sad that there isnt high priority for 5m anymore, though i can understand why they dont add any new ones.

    With the current design 5m are just a step for getting to the next step (raids, lfr, whatever). Adding (better) 5m later in the progression, will mess up things like in Cata.

    I like to see dungeons as an alternative path, a place where people can conquer a challenge with some friends (remmeber old BRD and heroics).
    Adding new dungeons during expansion progrssions wouldnt be as bad there.
    They could still do it these days if they wanted to since they have their challenge mode (not the same as my idea but at least something) and offer on normal mode same ilvl as the other 5m.
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  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    1000% This.. The most comprehensive post I have seen in this thread and pretty much what I was thinking in that you can only do dungeons so often before they become boring as all heck.. Can you imagine how much Blizz would have to pump out 5 mans to keep the people happy but without rehashing content..
    Agreed and seconded! Because after all everything in wow is a grind, grinding levels to max, grinding dungeons and heroics to get the best gear you can before moving on, it is nice to see rehashes here and there ( to which I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone complaining about the black temple being used as rehashed scenery for the lock quest yet).

    overall it does keep things going for a while, which was the main problem in past expansions, designing everything in 1 go and releasing it after 6 months + would cause a decline in subs, so smart move on blizzards case, they shipping out more content quicker while at the same time giving the advances so to speak with LFR

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    You dont resub only because there won't be dungeons? That's idiotic.
    Worthwhile 5 man content (challenge runs are not categorized in here) is important to people who don't give a shit about dailies, refuse to partake in LFR and don't have time to raid properly but still want some challenge. And by worthwhile I mean pre-HoT and pre-nerf Cata / TBC dungeons. But this doesn't fit Blizzard's philosophy (literally), because there's so many sources and tiers of different gear now they can't deal with another source in forms of 5 mans.

    Since there isn't any in this game anymore, people quit, because they have nothing to do.
    Last edited by Syran; 2013-03-10 at 09:18 AM.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    They are playing to the majority of the crowd, everyone races to end game content to raid, sure there are people who find 5 mans fun and go for achievements and what not but if you look at LFD you get the "GO GO GO" people who just want to be done and over with so they can move on their next one and do that one super fast without a thought in their head, Blizzard caught hell for so long about bad raids and they are trying to make up for it so I guess what I have to say is........

    Welcome to what raiders have felt for most expansions since WOTLK, it's 5 man players turn to sit on the bench.
    Since WOTLK? So you are saying most raids since LK where bad? I disagree with this and not only that, it isn't even comparable. What if Blizzard said no new raids til next expansion? That is comparable. I agree people race through the instances, but if given a choice I bet people would want new instances to race through.

    But anyhoo, without actual gear dropping from the new dungeons, people wouldn't run them. However, if they did choose to add gear, it would again have to be high enough ilvl to compete with LFR... meaning people would only run the new dungeons, then complain how they have nothing to do but run the same stuff over and over again every day. Eventually, people wouldn't even bother anymore due to burnout.
    This isn't any different then what it is now. You run LFR over and over again. You run dailies over and over again. Some people run dungeons over and over again to help with getting VP capped. People get unlucky in drops with LFR, it is by far the biggest complaint LFR has. Release dungeons that are a little lower in ilvl than LFR so people don't gear up so quickly, to make those people who aren't getting gear in LFR happy and since they still need LFR, they would run that too. After they get gear from the new dungeons, they will have more variation in dungeon queue if they want to run dungeons for VP. I don't know about you, I don't mind having more different dungeons in queue and for me personally after running the same 3 instances over and over again, it will make me miss the older ones and wouldn't mind getting those again for VP.

  18. #398
    Release dungeons that are a little lower in ilvl than LFR so people don't gear up so quickly
    It would have to be at least equal to the first two LFR wings to be any good at all, though. MSV LFR is only good for weapons and trinkets as is, due to S13 honor gear.
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  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    You talk a good game about getting gear for your time, but you do realize other than the rare epic drop until WOTLK people never got epics in 5 mans right? Then Cata hit and the epics stopped being dropped in 5 mans until the last bit of Crapaclysm, so by your standards saying you wanted it like BC and Vanilla you are actually getting it, you are getting blues.
    This is so retarded I don't know where to being. You know what beginning or end of crapaclysm I COULD SPEND THE FUCKIGN VALOR FROM THE DUNGEONS WITH OUT THE GOD DAMN REP. So you know what that means? THE FUCKING DUNGEONS GAVE ME GOD DAMN GEAR. The amount of ignorance and sheer obstinate stupidity that we must over come in this game is mind blowing.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-10 at 10:05 AM.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    I didn't say everyone agreed to me. I just pointed out that NOBODY DID THE FUCKING DAILIES IN THE PAST (or next to nobody) so how could that be the content they were asking for in mists?
    more lies. guess you have to make shit up when people dont agree with you
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