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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Dungeons are meh anyways, can't be arsed to run them even for valor. Scenarios are in my opinion much better because you are less likely to get grouped with... your average LFG person, it's easier to get a quick guild group to run it at any time of the day since there is no role-check and you only need two extra people.

    I would prefer solo-scenarios to farm for valor though, I really just can't stand the random people you group up with in LFR, LFG, BG's etc anymore.
    You can't be arsed to run them because the rewards from them SUCK. Fix the rewards from them. Then you'll be arsed to run. They'll be "compelling" in Blizzard parlance.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Storytelling?
    Scenarios are much better at storytelling, as are regular quests.

  3. #23
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    Scenarios.
    Yeah, they've been so awesome, right? If they manage to make them more interesting, like the one with Vol'jin, I have nothing against that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 01:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Scenarios are much better at storytelling, as are regular quests.
    No, they're not. They're worse, Fighting monkeys and collecting beer, running around in some village. There's is nothing compelling in terms of storytelling there. Even the one with Vol'jin, which is the most relevant in terms of lore, is weak compared to the ICC and Cataclysm 5mans.

  4. #24
    Dreadlord Craakar's Avatar
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    Totally baffled by the first comments at least. How was it fun to go from, maybe 8 dungeons in Cataclysm, to 2 troll ones, then to 3 Dragon Soul ones, the more dungeons the better, I hope it stays this way to be honest. I know there are some problems with doing these Heroics with 550 or so item level but it's better than being stuck with 2 or 3 dungeons. Get's repetitive way too fast, especially for alt-gearers.

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Frolk's Avatar
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    Yay, means we will be able to BORE ourself through current 5mans in tier 16...great....
    Ill take new 5 mans, even if they r re-hashed old ones
    I put the laughter in manslaughter
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  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    I can't say I really care for more 5mans unless its a choice between more 5mans and more scenarios. Scenarios are useless imo.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    You can't be arsed to run them because the rewards from them SUCK. Fix the rewards from them. Then you'll be arsed to run. They'll be "compelling" in Blizzard parlance.
    No, it's not about the rewards from the dungeons, they are rewarding enough as it is.

    I can't be arsed to run 5-man dungeons because of the people you get grouped with along with that all of it is basically "pull everything and nuke it down", every single "boss" is like fighting a target dummy, with no sense of danger anywhere. They are just, boring and lame.

    Sure, you could say that scenarios are equally easy/boring, but at least I get to deal with less random people, have instant queue even as DPS, and there aren't even any actual bosses that pretend to be bosses.

    The early heroic dungeons of Cataclysm, before their nerf, was the most fun I've ever had when running dungeons. After their nerf, ever since then, and all-throughout Wrath of the lich king before, they were just a bloody boring waste of time.

  8. #28
    I'm sorry but this is absolutely utterly horse shit. I can't believe it. Honestly. They killed what was such a rewarding and casual style of play for fuckign daily quests. They won't admit it's a mistake and they won't bring it back. Rest assured my feedback will be left after my sub runs out this month. Utterly fucking horse shit.

  9. #29
    People should just stop trying to make the 12$ or whatever they are paying to the game worth by running random battlegrounds and dungeons. Get in a guild and start doing stuff, pve or pvp. "Looking for x" is the least fun part of the game and if you are going to quit because they are not adding new LFx to the game then you weren't actually playing the game anyway.

  10. #30
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craakar View Post
    Totally baffled by the first comments at least. How was it fun to go from, maybe 8 dungeons in Cataclysm, to 2 troll ones, then to 3 Dragon Soul ones, the more dungeons the better, I hope it stays this way to be honest. I know there are some problems with doing these Heroics with 550 or so item level but it's better than being stuck with 2 or 3 dungeons. Get's repetitive way too fast, especially for alt-gearers.
    They could just put them in the same category. How is it better to do the same 9 dungeons for 2 years? At least in WotLK and Cata there was some new stuff every once in a while. When all you want is VP, you can just do the old dungeons anyway. Nolt that there is any reason to run HCs for a long time anyway, gear won't be needed, JP are useless.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    No, it's not about the rewards from the dungeons, they are rewarding enough as it is.

    I can't be arsed to run 5-man dungeons because of the people you get grouped with along with that all of it is basically "pull everything and nuke it down", every single "boss" is like fighting a target dummy, with no sense of danger anywhere. They are just, boring and lame.

    Sure, you could say that scenarios are equally easy/boring, but at least I get to deal with less random people, have instant queue even as DPS, and there aren't even any actual bosses that pretend to be bosses.

    The early heroic dungeons of Cataclysm, before their nerf, was the most fun I've ever had when running dungeons. After their nerf, ever since then, and all-throughout Wrath of the lich king before, they were just a bloody boring waste of time.
    No they are NOT. Otherwise you would be "arsed" to do them. They simple aren't rewaridng enough AT ALL. And it's killed them as a play style for many of us who loved doing them FOR EXACTLY THE FUCKING REWARD BEHIND THEM. This decision pisses me off to no fucking end. I cannot express it enough. It's so fucking incompotent and to have people SUPPORT THEM in this is a travesty.

    YOU WOULD PUT UP WITH THE LFD IF THE REWARD WAS GOOD ENOUGH. And if not then run it with your RL friends I could give a fuck less. This is retarded. The dungeons don't fucking reward enough, their aren't enough of them and abandoning what has been a core and central part of WoW is utterly foolish. I hope they lose millions of subs over this. I hope somebody gets fired. I'm sorry.

    Daily quests are not the fucking future of this game. If the developers have such a hard on for that type of content over runnign dungeons with your pals then they must really really be bored with the game and need to be moved onto other projects. I don't normally call for firing GC because I like what hes done with the game overall but if this was his decision then fuck him. He needs to move on.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-09 at 12:24 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Yeah, they've been so awesome, right? If they manage to make them more interesting, like the one with Vol'jin, I have nothing against that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 01:17 PM ----------



    No, they're not. They're worse, Fighting monkeys and collecting beer, running around in some village. There's is nothing compelling in terms of storytelling there. Even the one with Vol'jin, which is the most relevant in terms of lore, is weak compared to the ICC and Cataclysm 5mans.
    I admit that the scenario were you collect beer is neither all that interesting in terms of lore nor gameplay, but neither is any of all of the MoP dungeons. I will take a scenario run over a dungeon run any day, if only to avoid the people you run into in there.

    The ICC dungeons were good at delivering lore, sure, but the rest of the ICC dungeons weren't. Those are three out of how many? Scenarios could easily deliver lore-content just as well, if not even better since the objectives isn't restricted to smash your way through whatever trash is in the way and nuke the "boss".

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Honestly, with LFR and Scenarios the need for adding new instances is pretty minimal.

    From a practical standpoint, they've got just the dungeon & raid team for designing dungeons and raids. Literally one team doing the designs and layouts for that stuff, and one other one for the encounters. So you can sorta choose to do big raids or smaller raids and a few dungeons.

    On the other hand, Scenarios are apparantly really easy to design by any of the teams working on the game, so the quest team can utilize those any time they want to tell a new story in a dungeon-like environment.

    In terms of gearing, it seems like Blizzard's goal will be scenarios -> heroics -> raid tier 1 -> tier 2 -> tier 3. In the past, late-game heroics were used as a way to help players catch up with whatever the current raid tier is, however with the addition of LFR that's not really needed anymore.

    The only big thing people are missing out on here is the fun of new environments showing up in their random queues. However, in the past, "catch up" dungeons have been grouped into their own queues, so they end up getting boring pretty quick by comparison.

  14. #34
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    No they are NOT. Otherwise you would be "arsed" to do them. They simple aren't rewaridng enough AT ALL. And it's killed them as a play style for many of us who loved doing them FOR EXACTLY THE FUCKING REWARD BEHIND THEM. This decision pisses me off to no fucking end. I cannot express it enough. It's so fucking incompotent and to have people SUPPORT THEM in this is a travesty.

    YOU WOULD PUT UP WITH THE LFD IF THE REWARD WAS GOOD ENOUGH. And if not then run it with your RL friends I could give a fuck less. This is retarded. The dungeons don't fucking reward enough, their aren't enough of them and abandoning what has been a core and central part of WoW is utterly foolish. I hope they lose millions of subs over this. I hope somebody gets fired. I'm sorry.

    Daily quests are not the fucking future of this game. If the developers have such a hard on for that type of content over runnign dungeons with your pals then they must really really be bored with the game and need to be moved onto other projects. I don't normally call for firing GC because I like what hes done with the game overall but if this was his decision then fuck him. He needs to move on.
    Wow, and I thought I was upset.

  15. #35
    But there will be a new raid, were Gorrash is the last boss!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    YOU WOULD PUT UP WITH THE LFD IF THE REWARD WAS GOOD ENOUGH. And if not then run it with your RL friends I could give a fuck less. This is retarded. The dungeons don't fucking reward enough, their aren't enough of them and abandoning what has been a core and central part of WoW is utterly foolish. I hope they lose millions of subs over this. I hope somebody gets fired. I'm sorry.

    Daily quests are not the fucking future of this game. If the developers have such a hard on for that type of content over runnign dungeons with your pals then they must really really be bored with the game and need to be moved onto other projects. I don't normally call for firing GC because I like what hes done with the game overall but if this was his decision then fuck him. He needs to move on.
    I'm growing bored of your constant complaining about the state of WoW, gtfo if all you do is cry.

    And dungeons are supposed to be left behind, they are a roadsign, nothing more. Once you get enough gear from them to run LFR, they become obsolete, and it's meant to be this way.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Wow, and I thought I was upset.
    You don't even know the fucking half of it. Like this just means their commited to being retarded and abandoning what made the game fun for me and my friends for years. It's such a fucking massive betrayal and I hope it bites them in the ass. It means that the people I spent years playing this game with won't be coming back and neither will I. The thing we enjoyed the most was taken from us in favor of some absurd fucking daily quest bullshit.

    This pisses me off more than anything else this expansion.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 12:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    I'm growing bored of your constant complaining about the state of WoW, gtfo if all you do is cry.

    And dungeons are supposed to be left behind, they are a roadsign, nothing more. Once you get enough gear from them to run LFR, they become obsolete, and it's meant to be this way.
    Then don't read it. Theirs an ignore button. I'm growing bored of the constant bullshit coming out from the developers. If I could ignore them I would, but they develop this game and they make it a pile of dog shit.

  18. #38
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I admit that the scenario were you collect beer is neither all that interesting in terms of lore nor gameplay, but neither is any of all of the MoP dungeons. I will take a scenario run over a dungeon run any day, if only to avoid the people you run into in there.

    The ICC dungeons were good at delivering lore, sure, but the rest of the ICC dungeons weren't. Those are three out of how many? Scenarios could easily deliver lore-content just as well, if not even better since the objectives isn't restricted to smash your way through whatever trash is in the way and nuke the "boss".
    Some of the MoP dungeons were ok, some could've been better. One thing that bothers me is that there are so few of them. TBC and WotLK had lots of them. But it's mostly the ICC and Hour of Twilight dungeons that stood out for me. Maybe because ICC, the Lich King, Deathwing, War of the Ancients and the dragonflights were so heavy with lore.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    No they are NOT. Otherwise you would be "arsed" to do them. They simple aren't rewaridng enough AT ALL. And it's killed them as a play style for many of us who loved doing them FOR EXACTLY THE FUCKING REWARD BEHIND THEM. This decision pisses me off to no fucking end. I cannot express it enough. It's so fucking incompotent and to have people SUPPORT THEM in this is a travesty.

    YOU WOULD PUT UP WITH THE LFD IF THE REWARD WAS GOOD ENOUGH. And if not then run it with your RL friends I could give a fuck less. This is retarded. The dungeons don't fucking reward enough, their aren't enough of them and abandoning what has been a core and central part of WoW is utterly foolish. I hope they lose millions of subs over this. I hope somebody gets fired. I'm sorry.

    Daily quests are not the fucking future of this game. If the developers have such a hard on for that type of content over runnign dungeons with your pals then they must really really be bored with the game and need to be moved onto other projects. I don't normally call for firing GC because I like what hes done with the game overall but if this was his decision then fuck him. He needs to move on.
    First off, Ghostcrawler doesn't have nearly the kind of power you seem to make him out to have... He's one out of many designers and his focus is on working with the interface, he's the lead systems designer.

    Secondly, the heroic dungeons rewards gear, justice points, valor points, and now even reputation to a degree. I really can't understand how that is not enough for you? No, I would still not be arsed to run LFD even with better rewards, it's not about that, it's that they are all the same zerg fests were you can pretty much /afk the whole time just spamming aoe spells while watching a movie on your other screen (speaking from experience). I have even tanked dungeons while barely even paying attention with full success, not a single wipe or anything, just charge + thunderclap and you can pretty much go afk...

    How is that fun gameplay? I find them extremely tedious, and will avoid setting my foot in any of them for the rest of the expansion.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Daily quests are not the fucking future of this game. If the developers have such a hard on for that type of content over runnign dungeons with your pals then they must really really be bored with the game and need to be moved onto other projects. I don't normally call for firing GC because I like what hes done with the game overall but if this was his decision then fuck him. He needs to move on.
    Just so you know, the quest team, the dungeons & raid team, the encounter team, and the systems teams are all, uh... different teams.

    The quest team is the one that does all of the quests, including the daily quests.

    The dungeon & raid team actually designs the environments for the dungeons and raids (IE level design), working with the encounter team to populate them with bosses and trash.

    Ghostcrawler is the lead systems designer. He works on stuff like the user interface, trade skills, class abilities, talents, and general game balance.

    In his own words, his team handles "everything that is not level, story, quest or encounter design."
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2013-03-09 at 12:33 PM.

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